Interested in the less common hormones e.g. Pregenolone, DHEA - does suppression occur? Understanding Ray's essay

[AnonE]

I hear a lot about the 3 youth hormones - Pregnenolone, Progesterone, DHEA - and have some questions about supplementing with them. Been trying to wrap my head around Ray's essay here: Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones

Main question: does taking Pregnenolone and/or DHEA (my understanding is men would benefit from those two mostly) suppress the body's own natural production of said hormones?

Anyone who's done a bit of research into bodybuilding and steroids (e.g. synthetic testosterone) knows that taking exogeneous T for example will suppress the body's internal production of said hormone. I've also read about steroid users having shrunken testes... yikes lol.

Pregnenolone is interesting because it's upstream of a lot of hormone production, but moreso, might not have this effect? Here's a passage from the essay above:

"Pregnenolone is largely converted into two other "youth-associated" protective hormones, progesterone and DHEA. At the age of 30, both men and women produce roughly 30 to 50 mg. of pregnenolone daily. When taken orally, even in the powdered form, it is absorbed fairly well. One dose of approximately 300 mg (the size of an aspirin tablet) keeps acting for about a week, as absorption continues along the intestine, and as it is "recycled" in the body. Part of this long lasting effect is because it improves the body's ability to produce its own pregnenolone. It tends to improve function of the thyroid and other glands, and this "normalizing" effect on the other glands helps to account for its wide range of beneficial effects."

OK so if I'm understanding that correctly, this has a positive-feedback effect, as opposed to the Testosterone mentioned above which would have a negative-feedback effect.

Is that correct? That would be really great because it's something that, if you forget or just stop taking, you've still benefitted at least transiently from when you were taking it. So if I understand that right, this seems like a fantastic substance to take. And being upstream of everything it seems likely it would improve any adult's overall hormone profiles.

Or maybe I've misunderstood..? Basically I'm trying to research other types of hormone supplementation that would be beneficial and not have you become "shut down".

Input appreciated :)

 

[Vajra]

I haven't totally verified this but I don't think DHEA becomes suppressed when you use lighter doses such as 5mg or so.

Effects of transdermal application of DHEA on the levels of steroids, gonadotropins and lipids in men

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11252535/ In order to ascertain the kinetics of absorption and metabolism of transdermally administered dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), 10 men 29-72 years old (mean 52.4+/-14.5) received 50 mg DHEA/day in a gel applied onto the skin of the abdomen for 5 consecutive...

raypeatforum.com

Most studies such as this one use 50mg+, which can be estrogenic.

 

[Hans]

Preg and DHEA don't suppress even in high doses. Prog on the other hand can reduce LH pulse frequency if I recall correctly and if the dose is large enough. This depends on the person ofc. Peat says that prog promotes its own production similar to preg, but it does have an effect on LH.

 

[haidut]

I hear a lot about the 3 youth hormones - Pregnenolone, Progesterone, DHEA - and have some questions about supplementing with them. Been trying to wrap my head around Ray's essay here: Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones

Main question: does taking Pregnenolone and/or DHEA (my understanding is men would benefit from those two mostly) suppress the body's own natural production of said hormones?

Anyone who's done a bit of research into bodybuilding and steroids (e.g. synthetic testosterone) knows that taking exogeneous T for example will suppress the body's internal production of said hormone. I've also read about steroid users having shrunken testes... yikes lol.

Pregnenolone is interesting because it's upstream of a lot of hormone production, but moreso, might not have this effect? Here's a passage from the essay above:

"Pregnenolone is largely converted into two other "youth-associated" protective hormones, progesterone and DHEA. At the age of 30, both men and women produce roughly 30 to 50 mg. of pregnenolone daily. When taken orally, even in the powdered form, it is absorbed fairly well. One dose of approximately 300 mg (the size of an aspirin tablet) keeps acting for about a week, as absorption continues along the intestine, and as it is "recycled" in the body. Part of this long lasting effect is because it improves the body's ability to produce its own pregnenolone. It tends to improve function of the thyroid and other glands, and this "normalizing" effect on the other glands helps to account for its wide range of beneficial effects."

OK so if I'm understanding that correctly, this has a positive-feedback effect, as opposed to the Testosterone mentioned above which would have a negative-feedback effect.

Is that correct? That would be really great because it's something that, if you forget or just stop taking, you've still benefitted at least transiently from when you were taking it. So if I understand that right, this seems like a fantastic substance to take. And being upstream of everything it seems likely it would improve any adult's overall hormone profiles.

Or maybe I've misunderstood..? Basically I'm trying to research other types of hormone supplementation that would be beneficial and not have you become "shut down".

Input appreciated :)

In addition to what @Hans said, I would add that pregnenolone can even prevent the suppression (and thus gonadal atrophy) from using suppressive steroids. Adding a little (~5mg) DHEA amplifies this effect, but I would not take more than 15mg DHEA daily as if it raises estrogen enough that can cause suppression. Estrogen is highly suppressive of LH/FSH.

Pregnenolone (P5) Fully Prevents Testicular Atrophy Due To Steroid (ab)use Or High Estrogen

I often get emails from bodybuilders, athletes and others who have used or currently use steroids and want to either protect themselves while using those steroids or want to recover after long-term usage. It is well-known that most performance enhancing steroids, including plain testosterone (T)...

raypeatforum.com

 

[AnonE]

In addition to what @Hans said, I would add that pregnenolone can even prevent the suppression (and thus gonadal atrophy) from using suppressive steroids. Adding a little (~5mg) DHEA amplifies this effect, but I would not take more than 15mg DHEA daily as if it raises estrogen enough that can cause suppression. Estrogen is highly suppressive of LH/FSH.

Pregnenolone (P5) Fully Prevents Testicular Atrophy Due To Steroid (ab)use Or High Estrogen

I often get emails from bodybuilders, athletes and others who have used or currently use steroids and want to either protect themselves while using those steroids or want to recover after long-term usage. It is well-known that most performance enhancing steroids, including plain testosterone (T)...

raypeatforum.com

That's awesome. Does this mean one could supplement Preg+DHEA for a few months, then come off of it without any 'rebound' effects?

What doses would you recommend for an average sized male?

 

[H40]

Preg and DHEA don't suppress even in high doses. Prog on the other hand can reduce LH pulse frequency if I recall correctly and if the dose is large enough. This depends on the person ofc. Peat says that prog promotes its own production similar to preg, but it does have an effect on LH.

Hello Hans
Everytime I take pregnelanone , the first two days you feel its psychological effect ( handling stress , social interaction etc...) but on the third day , it shut down libido .
I ve tried the powder form ( small dosage under tongue, and a once weekly high dosage experiment ) , I tried the idealabs liquid form on small dosage as well and all leads to the same result. Do you have an idea on why it's affecting the libido ?

 

[Pavel]

Everytime I take pregnelanone , the first two days you feel its psychological effect ( handling stress , social interaction etc...) but on the third day , it shut down libido .
I ve tried the powder form ( small dosage under tongue, and a once weekly high dosage experiment ) , I tried the idealabs liquid form on small dosage as well and all leads to the same result. Do you have an idea on why it's affecting the libido ?

I having same experience as you using pregnenolone or progesterone. Libido down is cause from build up of allopregnanolone from either high or frequent dosing. The best way to use it would be every 3 or more days lower dosage.

 

[Hans]

Hello Hans
Everytime I take pregnelanone , the first two days you feel its psychological effect ( handling stress , social interaction etc...) but on the third day , it shut down libido .
I ve tried the powder form ( small dosage under tongue, and a once weekly high dosage experiment ) , I tried the idealabs liquid form on small dosage as well and all leads to the same result. Do you have an idea on why it's affecting the libido ?

What different doses have you used? And how long does it take after stopping before your libido returns? Do you get the same effects from prog?

 

[Dr. B]

In addition to what @Hans said, I would add that pregnenolone can even prevent the suppression (and thus gonadal atrophy) from using suppressive steroids. Adding a little (~5mg) DHEA amplifies this effect, but I would not take more than 15mg DHEA daily as if it raises estrogen enough that can cause suppression. Estrogen is highly suppressive of LH/FSH.

Pregnenolone (P5) Fully Prevents Testicular Atrophy Due To Steroid (ab)use Or High Estrogen

I often get emails from bodybuilders, athletes and others who have used or currently use steroids and want to either protect themselves while using those steroids or want to recover after long-term usage. It is well-known that most performance enhancing steroids, including plain testosterone (T)...

raypeatforum.com

mate my gonads shrank significantly, from 50mg pregnenolone daily (pure encapsulations brand). I actually put on 12 pounds weight gain, in 10 days of using 50mg. also my hair thinned a lot on the scalp, testes shrank, and seminal volume shrank significantly. it went down to like dribbles. I think pregnenolone shouldn't be used if metabolism is low, it probably provides more raw material to create cortisol.
when metabolism is poor, doesn't the body build up cholesterol as a protective mechanism? body stops making pregnenolone from cholesterol, intentionally apparently. so by supplementing it it seems it just goes to cortisol. Had I continued that pregnenolone I probably would have been castrated and lost all my hair. I think youd need to use thyroid or caffeine or something else so the body starts making its own pregnenolone or properly converting cholesterol. dht also seems to cause hair loss when metabolism is poor, as does androsterone, progesterone/dhea, and possibly even creatine.

 

[H40]

What different doses have you used? And how long does it take after stopping before your libido returns? Do you get the same effects from prog?

@Hans
The Different doses are :
Stressnon : 3 drops after breakfast. Sometimes I added 3 drops after lunch. Start producing that effect after few days (low libido , shrinkage , weak errections). On some occasion it produced a crispation of the jaw and some times weired feeling on social discussions.
On long term use it produced a face skin glow.
8-10 mg powder ( micro spoon) under the tongue after breakfast , first few days , joyful interactions with people but I stopped soon after I noticed same effect of stressnon.

I tried once the 300mg/week and the low libido effect was immediate.

To reverse the situation, I went on testing Proviron alone : used half pill with breakfast for 5 days ( or 1 week) then 1/4 pill per day : libido is back , motivation , high semen , start looking at girls with interest, I dumped a lot of water and started looking slim .
It Produced oily hair, I didn't feel hunger between meals , at night during sleep I was feeling hard my adrenal on both location in my back and was urinating a lot. however for some reason I decided one day to take pregnelanone ( one a week high dose ) and the bloating was back. Proviron never produced the same effect I had on the begining.

I think pregnelanone for me emphasis the progesterone pathway at any dose.
With Pansterone I think it gives some assertiveness, however as I need to loose fat , even dhea on 5mg dose produce estrogenic effects.
I once tried 1 drop of progestene at night and it is not something I want to try again...

 

[Hans]

@Hans
The Different doses are :
Stressnon : 3 drops after breakfast. Sometimes I added 3 drops after lunch. Start producing that effect after few days (low libido , shrinkage , weak errections). On some occasion it produced a crispation of the jaw and some times weired feeling on social discussions.
On long term use it produced a face skin glow.
8-10 mg powder ( micro spoon) under the tongue after breakfast , first few days , joyful interactions with people but I stopped soon after I noticed same effect of stressnon.

I tried once the 300mg/week and the low libido effect was immediate.

To reverse the situation, I went on testing Proviron alone : used half pill with breakfast for 5 days ( or 1 week) then 1/4 pill per day : libido is back , motivation , high semen , start looking at girls with interest, I dumped a lot of water and started looking slim .
It Produced oily hair, I didn't feel hunger between meals , at night during sleep I was feeling hard my adrenal on both location in my back and was urinating a lot. however for some reason I decided one day to take pregnelanone ( one a week high dose ) and the bloating was back. Proviron never produced the same effect I had on the begining.

I think pregnelanone for me emphasis the progesterone pathway at any dose.
With Pansterone I think it gives some assertiveness, however as I need to loose fat , even dhea on 5mg dose produce estrogenic effects.
I once tried 1 drop of progestene at night and it is not something I want to try again...

What did you notice from the progesterone, the same as with preg just worse?

 

[H40]

What did you notice from the progesterone, the same as with preg just worse?

Yes : shrinkage / no erection. What I recall from that experience is blaming myself why I took it !

 

[Hans]

Yes : shrinkage / no erection. What I recall from that experience is blaming myself why I took it !

Yes it's probably as you suspect already. Rapid conversion of preg to prog. Perhaps you can try androsterone instead of DHEA.

 

[H40]

I having same experience as you using pregnenolone or progesterone. Libido down is cause from build up of allopregnanolone from either high or frequent dosing. The best way to use it would be every 3 or more days lower dosage.

Thanks

 

[H40]

Yes it's probably as you suspect already. Rapid conversion of preg to prog. Perhaps you can try androsterone instead of DHEA.

I have it in stock. I don't recall exactly my previous Andro experience so I will check it again . Thank you hans

 

[sun-maid]

Preg and DHEA don't suppress even in high doses. Prog on the other hand can reduce LH pulse frequency if I recall correctly and if the dose is large enough. This depends on the person ofc. Peat says that prog promotes its own production similar to preg, but it does have an effect on LH.

So long term Prog use would lower your testosterone ? But it wont reduce your own prog production, right ?

 

[Hans]

So long term Prog use would lower your testosterone ? But it wont reduce your own prog production, right ?

It won't lower your T necessarily. Some experience an increase in T whereas other might experience a slight decrease.
Peat argues that prog promotes its own synthesis.

 

[Jon2547]

What are some natural ways to boost progesterone, preg and DHEA?

 

[Hans]

What are some natural ways to boost progesterone, preg and DHEA?

Same as boosting T really.

Maximize testosterone: a 26 quick tip guide​

 

[H40]

Same as boosting T really.

Maximize testosterone: a 26 quick tip guide​

Why the the iodine protocol – for only for 1 week ?