What oil would provide the best absorbtion of transdermal hormones?

[Santosh]

No point yet, since I'm still messing around with the formula, but I will eventually. Its largely water based + fats, penetration enhancers, and emulsifiers, like any lotion.

I tried using ~70% alcohol gel and that burned quite a bit. Other ingredients were water, IPM, and carbomer, so perhaps the MCT would help, but either way I like the idea of a lotion better anyways.

Yes the MCT is everything, plain ethanol and IPM burns quite a bit.

 

[brightside]

@blackface

What kind of "total absorbed T" amounts are you aiming for? Just 12.5mg of scrotal T can produce the same levels as 100mg used elsewhere, which means that with a 100mg/mL lotion, you could get away with like .2 mL for a mediocre TRT. (obviously you can use more, I'm just highlighting the tiny amount required)

Is 100mg/mL a reasonable enough concentration?

 

[Santosh]

Is 100mg/mL a reasonable enough concentration?

As you mentioned, depends where you apply it and "reasonable" for what goal.

It's not about whether it's reasonable, it's about whether it will hold.
At 80% ethanol + 20% MCT oil, 100mg/ml is about as high as you will get.

 

[brightside]

As you mentioned, depends where you apply it and "reasonable" for what goal.

It's not about whether it's reasonable, it's about whether it will hold.
At 80% ethanol + 20% MCT oil, 100mg/ml is about as high as you will get.

How does DHEA compare to T in terms of solubility? I have been running all of my experiments using DHEA, since its cheap and easily accessible. I am saving my T powder only for final products. Technically, both have only one hydroxyl group so they should be similar, but they are on opposite ends. I've gotten 200-230mg/mL of DHEA to easily hold, how would that translate to T?

I've quickly learned that MCT sucks in pretty much all aspects, there are much better options available.

 

[brightside]

As you mentioned, depends where you apply it and "reasonable" for what goal.

The problem is, if you use a quick drying carrier, then using a mL or more is not an issue. But with longer drying carriers such as lotions, a mL can easily get rubbed around and then rubbed off onto clothes. On the other hand, you get dramatically longer mechanism of action. The lotion I made is still somewhat white 2-4 hours post application, which means that the dose is getting stretched for at least that many hours. So a lotion limits the amount of hormone that you can apply, but then it stretches that dose, which means that you can technically use less.

100mg/mL of lotion is very do-able, at least with DHEA. I only tried up to 40mg/mL with T, but will try 100 once I get the rest of my ingredients.

 

[Santosh]

The problem is, if you use a quick drying carrier, then using a mL or more is not an issue. But with longer drying carriers such as lotions, a mL can easily get rubbed around and then rubbed off onto clothes. On the other hand, you get dramatically longer mechanism of action. The lotion I made is still somewhat white 2-4 hours post application, which means that the dose is getting stretched for at least that many hours. So a lotion limits the amount of hormone that you can apply, but then it stretches that dose, which means that you can technically use less.

100mg/mL of lotion is very do-able, at least with DHEA. I only tried up to 40mg/mL with T, but will try 100 once I get the rest of my ingredients.

Oh you are the guy who won't share his cream recipe.
Look dude, I have been sharing my findings on this forum since 2019 and I am the pioneer of transdermal hormones formula spreading.
If you are not willing to share back, why would I keep answering your solubility questions ?

1) I have answered this a million times.
2) If you want to receive you need to give.

 

[brightside]

Oh you are the guy who won't share his cream recipe.
Look dude, I have been sharing my findings on this forum since 2019 and I am the pioneer of transdermal hormones formula spreading.
If you are not willing to share back, why would I keep answering your solubility questions ?

1) I have answered this a million times.
2) If you want to receive you need to give.

I don't share it because its not ready to be shared. Simple as that. There is no point in sharing a half baked idea. If you can't wait, that's your problem.

1) I have answered this a million times.

No, you haven't. You shared a bunch of information scattered around the internet, I don't have the time to microanalyze all of your accounts.

2) If you want to receive you need to give.

Not really, but okay.

Why is it so transactional? I was replying to your comment, it's a conversation.

Calm your ego down, you are nowhere near first or a pioneer. (thread from 2002)

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[Santosh]

If you can't wait, that's your problem.

My problem is not waiting, it's with :

1) people who always ask but don't provide
2) people who can't use a search function

I consistantly shared the different solubilities of testosterone in various solvents on a few forums, a mega file that I managed to find on my own.

 

[brightside]

My problem is not waiting, it's with :

1) people who always ask but don't provide
2) people who can't use a search function

I consistantly shared the different solubilities of testosterone in various solvents on a few forums, a mega file that I managed to find on my own.

DHEA has a hydroxyl at 3C, while T's hydroxyl is at C17. The only other difference is the position of the C=C double bond. How exactly do these changes affect their solubility in ethanol? What about less polar solvents such as propylene glycol, or say, decanoic acid? Let me know if you can find the answers to these questions in 2 or even 10 minutes of googling.

I was using ethanol in a combination with other solvents, therefore the solubility was different than the numbers that can be searched. Plus, you said that ethanol+MCT only holds up to 100mg/ml (as opposed to the 150mg/ml in straight ethanol) which shows that not only is MCT not a solvent, but that adding it reduces the solvent capacity of ethanol (duh). However, in my experiment I was able to maintain the high capacity of ethanol.

I doubt you would be able to answer my question, but that was kind of the point, to start a discussion on solvents, the solubility of hormones and their structure, and various co-solvents. Instead I get this ^

You have shown that you are neither the pioneer you claim to be, neither someone who can provide any real insight, therefore continuing this is pointless. Have a good day.

 

[Santosh]

MCT only holds up to 100mg/ml (as opposed to the 150mg/ml in straight ethanol) which shows that not only is MCT not a solvent, but that adding it reduces the solvent capacity of ethanol (duh).

It's almost embarassing that I would have to explain such basic math.
It doesn't reduce ethanol's solvent capacity, it's just that if you increase total liquid volume without increasing the solute quantity and the solvency power, you end up with a lower overall concentration.

 

[brightside]

It's almost embarassing that I would have to explain such basic math.
It doesn't reduce ethanol's solvent capacity, it's just that if you increase total liquid volume without increasing the solute quantity and the solvency power, you end up with a lower overall concentration.

Yeah, youre right. I meant that it doesn't increase it, but reduces the overall concentration.