Reasonable DIY Transdermal Testosterone

[ecstatichamster]

https://www.nowfoods.com/products/supplements/vitamin-e-liquid

which vitamin E are you using?z

 

[Santosh]

Consistent excellent experience with T base in vitamin E.

How do you even feel anything ?

I get a 100mg/ml solution with ethanol and MCT oil and apply 2 to 3 ml to my belly and scrotum to feel the effects of testosterone.

 

[ecstatichamster]

How do you even feel anything ?

I get a 100mg/ml solution with ethanol and MCT oil and apply 2 to 3 ml to my belly and scrotum to feel the effects of testosterone.

That’s far too much.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Dr. Peat says a healthy young man produces 4mg or 5mg T per day. That's why I can add 2 mg and be very happy with the result. More is actually less.

 

[Nebula]

Dr. Peat says a healthy young man produces 4mg or 5mg T per day. That's why I can add 2 mg and be very happy with the result. More is actually less.

Have you done any blood tests to confirm 2mg is actually increase your T levels? If so by how much? You were starting with normal high levels though, correct? Is there anyone who has been able to raise actual low T to normal ranges with just a few mg topical? I’m not aware of any.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Have you done any blood tests to confirm 2mg is actually increase your T levels? If so by how much? You were starting with normal high levels though, correct? Is there anyone who has been able to raise actual low T to normal ranges with just a few mg topical? I’m not aware of any.

I have anecdotal evidence that it does at 1mg. Why wouldn’t it? It transports very well in the vitamin E.

 

[Nebula]

I have anecdotal evidence that it does at 1mg. Why wouldn’t it? It transports very well in the vitamin E.

So you haven't done any before and after tests? Just noticed an increase things you would associate with a bump in higher T? I don't know anyone on the forum that has been able to increase their out of range low T with just a couple mg's. Do you?

 

[ecstatichamster]

So you haven't done any before and after tests? Just noticed an increase things you would associate with a bump in higher T? I don't know anyone on the forum that has been able to increase their out of range low T with just a couple mg's. Do you?

I'm doing it every day but I haven't got a blood test nor do I intend to. Mine is high naturally so I'm not a model for someone with low T. However, if it's 4 mg that is normal for a healthy young man,why is someone applying 300mg? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

[JCub369]

I have created 10mg per drop test base powder in 80%DMSO 20%ethanol. I have also created a 5mg T and 1mg DHT per drop in vitamin E solution. They both work great. I have not gone for bloods since starting.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have created 10mg per drop test base powder in 80%DMSO 20%ethanol. I have also created a 5mg T and 1mg DHT per drop in vitamin E solution. They both work great. I have not gone for bloods since starting.

what is your daily dose?

 

[brightside]

I have anecdotal evidence that it does at 1mg. Why wouldn’t it? It transports very well in the vitamin E.

Are you using it transdermally?

Vitamin E isn't a penetration enhancer, so you're transporting like 5%, maybe. That's like 50mcg if you use 1mg. It would also be reduced to DHT, so if you're having benefits, then it's from that. 50mcg of T isn't going to bump you up pretty much at all.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Are you using it transdermally?

Vitamin E isn't a penetration enhancer, so you're transporting like 5%, maybe. That's like 50mcg if you use 1mg. It would also be reduced to DHT, so if you're having benefits, then it's from that. 50mcg of T isn't going to bump you up pretty much at all.

I doubt this. Actually, E transports steroids efficiently into the body in thin skin like scrotal and belly button areas. Maybe not 5%, maybe much higher?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0928098795000145

Vitamin E (α-tocopherol) has demonstrated effectiveness as a human skin penetration enhancer by increasing the permeability coefficient of radiolabeled hydrocortisone approximately two-fold in excised cadaver skin. Skin permeability experiments were carried out in Franz (vertical) diffusion cells in infinite dose experiments. In all five of these experiments, positive enhancement of permeability versus untreated controls was observed (p = 0.014 showing enhancement factor greater than 1). Furthermore, a reduction in lag time was observed with Vitamin E treated skin. It is postulated that Vitamin E acts as a penetration enhancer by intercalating within the lipid bilayer region of the stratum corneum, thus altering the characteristics of the membrane affecting permeability, presumably by disordering gel phase lipids. Unlike other well known enhancers, Vitamin E is generally thought to be non-irritating, and additionally, possesses antioxidant and emollient properties.

 

[Nebula]

I'm doing it every day but I haven't got a blood test nor do I intend to. Mine is high naturally so I'm not a model for someone with low T. However, if it's 4 mg that is normal for a healthy young man,why is someone applying 300mg? That doesn't make sense to me.

That's great you're having positive effects, but so far nobody has been able to raise their out of range low T with this method. Like brightside said its possible what you're noticing is just a little "slow release" DHT conversion on top of your already high T.

 

[brightside]

I doubt this. Actually, E transports steroids efficiently into the body in thin skin like scrotal and belly button areas. Maybe not 5%, maybe much higher?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0928098795000145

Vitamin E (α-tocopherol) has demonstrated effectiveness as a human skin penetration enhancer by increasing the permeability coefficient of radiolabeled hydrocortisone approximately two-fold in excised cadaver skin. Skin permeability experiments were carried out in Franz (vertical) diffusion cells in infinite dose experiments. In all five of these experiments, positive enhancement of permeability versus untreated controls was observed (p = 0.014 showing enhancement factor greater than 1). Furthermore, a reduction in lag time was observed with Vitamin E treated skin. It is postulated that Vitamin E acts as a penetration enhancer by intercalating within the lipid bilayer region of the stratum corneum, thus altering the characteristics of the membrane affecting permeability, presumably by disordering gel phase lipids. Unlike other well known enhancers, Vitamin E is generally thought to be non-irritating, and additionally, possesses antioxidant and emollient properties.

You're right. But, it's not that simple.

1. They dissolved it in ethanol, which you're not doing. Ethanol spreads across the skin very thinly, which helps spread it out across a larger area which is important (for flux too). If your solution isn't thin, you oversaturate the skin, and lose hormone by eventual rub-off. That can easily be half of your applied dose.

2. Ethanol itself rips out skin lipids, which is a different mechanism to the Vitamin E, and the effect is compounded. You can't compare Vit E alone to Vit E+Ethanol.

3. Ethanol + IPM yields roughly 9-14% absorption. If Vitamin E matches that, you're still only getting 100mcg which is tiny.

4. Hydrocortisone absorption is different from T's and is not directly comparable.

If you use scrotally, of course you will absorb more, that's true with any formulation, but it doesn't make that formulation particularly good at penetrating the skin.

 

[ecstatichamster]

yes but there are other studies using vitamin E as a skin penetration enhancer.

AndroGel claims 9 - 14% transdermal penetration into the body, BTW.

Long-Term Pharmacokinetics of Transdermal Testosterone Gel in Hypogonadal Men1

Transdermal delivery of testosterone (T) represents an effective alternative to injectable androgens. Transdermal T patches normalize serum T levels and re

academic.oup.com

 

[JCub369]

Are you using it transdermally?

Vitamin E isn't a penetration enhancer, so you're transporting like 5%, maybe. That's like 50mcg if you use 1mg. It would also be reduced to DHT, so if you're having benefits, then it's from that. 50mcg of T isn't going to bump you up pretty much at all.

What’s your opinion on using Vitamin E ( Tocovit ) with DMSO? What ratios would you use?

 

[JCub369]

I doubt this. Actually, E transports steroids efficiently into the body in thin skin like scrotal and belly button areas. Maybe not 5%, maybe much higher?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0928098795000145

Vitamin E (α-tocopherol) has demonstrated effectiveness as a human skin penetration enhancer by increasing the permeability coefficient of radiolabeled hydrocortisone approximately two-fold in excised cadaver skin. Skin permeability experiments were carried out in Franz (vertical) diffusion cells in infinite dose experiments. In all five of these experiments, positive enhancement of permeability versus untreated controls was observed (p = 0.014 showing enhancement factor greater than 1). Furthermore, a reduction in lag time was observed with Vitamin E treated skin. It is postulated that Vitamin E acts as a penetration enhancer by intercalating within the lipid bilayer region of the stratum corneum, thus altering the characteristics of the membrane affecting permeability, presumably by disordering gel phase lipids. Unlike other well known enhancers, Vitamin E is generally thought to be non-irritating, and additionally, possesses antioxidant and emollient properties.

Wow. Great. Thanks for sharing. I was considering using DMSO in my vitamin E before seeing this. Might still make a 50/50 solution.

 

[Connor888]

If I wanted to absorb 1mg of testosterone transdermally using ethanol as a solvent, how much would I apply topically, 10mg, more?

 

[brightside]

yes but there are other studies using vitamin E as a skin penetration enhancer.

But's not good enough for transdermal TRT, because having a giant sticky blob on your body isn't "Reasonable" (as per thread title). Since it's not that efficient, you will waste a lot of product too.

On top of that, micrograms of T aren't going to produce that much discernable effect unless you're healthy to begin with. in which case, you wouldn't need TRT.

Effects from such small doses are definitely from DHT. As you yourself said, the body produces 5mg of T a day and 100mcg is like 2% of that. It just doesn't add up.

 

[brightside]

AndroGel claims 9 - 14% transdermal penetration into the body, BTW.

Long-Term Pharmacokinetics of Transdermal Testosterone Gel in Hypogonadal Men1

Transdermal delivery of testosterone (T) represents an effective alternative to injectable androgens. Transdermal T patches normalize serum T levels and re

academic.oup.com

Yep, it's in the OP, and what I was referencing in post #154