Correcting Linoleic Acid "deficiency" Clears Acne?

ilovethesea

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This study says "Acne patients have also been shown to have low levels of linoleic acid in their skin surface lipids." Essential fatty acids and acne. - PubMed - NCBI

A few blogs like Oils Specifically For Acne Prone Skin report a clearing of the skin when applying linoleic acid topically:

"When our skin is deficient in linoleic acid, our skin's natural sebum becomes thick and sticky which clogs pores and creates acne. Usually oily congested and acneprone skin's sebum is predominately composed of oleic acid. ... My skin has become much clearer since using only products or ingredients high in linoleic acid."

Also Why Linoleic Acid and Rosehip Oil Might Fix Your Skin - Lab Muffin

Any thoughts on this? Is our sebum really unsaturated and why would acne people be "deficient"?
By what mechanism would applying a PUFA oil clear acne?
 

EIRE24

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I'd agree with this a fat free diet made my acne way worse. I get awful dry skin that actually turns a hint of yellow it's so dry with dead skin if I do not exfoliate
 

ilovethesea

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I believe the article in the link below would explain your findings there from Ray Peat's perspective. It points out that it's actually a b6 deficiency and not a fatty acid deficiency that's causing the skin problems...

Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?

It's about "Burr's disease" but the underlying concepts are probably the same as acne.

Thanks, that makes sense that people with acne could be deficient in B6.

I found this re: sebum fatty acid profile. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15492954. It says sebum is around 45% saturated, 45% MUFA and only 10% PUFA. But oilier areas of the body have a higher composition of MUFA.

So if the MUFA causes more acne, would applying a PUFA oil help simply by thinning out the thick MUFA sebum - not because it's correcting any "deficiency"? Wouldn't a saturated fat like coconut oil do the same thing?
 

ilovethesea

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I'd agree with this a fat free diet made my acne way worse. I get awful dry skin that actually turns a hint of yellow it's so dry with dead skin if I do not exfoliate

To clarify, the study was about the fatty acid profile of sebum, and people correcting acne with topical PUFA - not internal.
 

Orion

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To clarify, the study was about the fatty acid profile of sebum, and people correcting acne with topical PUFA - not internal.

I have seen studies that putting PUFA on skin, greatly increases acne. PUFA traps calcium in the cells, when it should be outside the cell. PUFA blocks vitamin A, and T4 transport.

Doing fat free for me is decreasing sebum production, so there is definitely something involving PUFA. I will say, fat free for the first week, my skin went berserk, but now 2 weeks on, healing every day.

Posted this in another thread:
Listened to a RP interview where he talks about how PUFA very efficiently blocks Transthyretin, which transport vitamin A and thyroid hormone. In the skin this can block skin cells ability to produce progesterone locally and oppose estrogen (this is how vitamin A opposes estrogen). I can see now how vitamin A does not work for some people, since the PUFA in your blood is blocking it and T4. PUFA in the liver blocks T4 converting to T3, down-regulating thyroid and energy to repair.
 

EIRE24

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I have seen studies that putting PUFA on skin, greatly increases acne. PUFA traps calcium in the cells, when it should be outside the cell. PUFA blocks vitamin A, and T4 transport.

Doing fat free for me is decreasing sebum production, so there is definitely something involving PUFA. I will say, fat free for the first week, my skin went berserk, but now 2 weeks on, healing every day.

Posted this in another thread:
Listened to a RP interview where he talks about how PUFA very efficiently blocks Transthyretin, which transport vitamin A and thyroid hormone. In the skin this can block skin cells ability to produce progesterone locally and oppose estrogen (this is how vitamin A opposes estrogen). I can see now how vitamin A does not work for some people, since the PUFA in your blood is blocking it and T4. PUFA in the liver blocks T4 converting to T3, down-regulating thyroid and energy to repair.
My sebum production also decreased on fat free and I think the face definitely needs some moisture
 

ilovethesea

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I have seen studies that putting PUFA on skin, greatly increases acne. PUFA traps calcium in the cells, when it should be outside the cell. PUFA blocks vitamin A, and T4 transport.

Doing fat free for me is decreasing sebum production, so there is definitely something involving PUFA. I will say, fat free for the first week, my skin went berserk, but now 2 weeks on, healing every day.

Posted this in another thread:
Listened to a RP interview where he talks about how PUFA very efficiently blocks Transthyretin, which transport vitamin A and thyroid hormone. In the skin this can block skin cells ability to produce progesterone locally and oppose estrogen (this is how vitamin A opposes estrogen). I can see now how vitamin A does not work for some people, since the PUFA in your blood is blocking it and T4. PUFA in the liver blocks T4 converting to T3, down-regulating thyroid and energy to repair.

Interesting, do you think a PUFA could block vit A/ progesterone production when applied topically?

I keep hearing of people using these fancy PUFA oils and loving them... I just don't get how they would benefit the skin at all.

Your other info is very interesting, I'm going to go back and re-read your posts! I want to try the fat free experiment but I have to do low starch because of endotoxin - so hard to do both at the same time!
 

Orion

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Interesting, do you think a PUFA could block vit A/ progesterone production when applied topically?

Yes I definitely think that PUFA on the skin is bad and is absorbed and would directly block progesterone production in the skin and increase estrogen locally.
I saw your post in the sugar and aging thread, reduced inflammation due to lowered immune response, all the PUFAs do this, omega-6 to fish oils.

I am doing VLF with zero starch, I posted a chronometer pic with daily calories.
Mainly skim milk(2L), white sugar(1.5cups), apple and OJ juice(1 cup), dry cottage cheese, gelatin and cooked fruits
Close to 3000 calories, 130g protein, even trying zero fat gets about 5g per day, mostly SFA.
 

bohogirl

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Yes I definitely think that PUFA on the skin is bad and is absorbed and would directly block progesterone production in the skin and increase estrogen locally.
I saw your post in the sugar and aging thread, reduced inflammation due to lowered immune response, all the PUFAs do this, omega-6 to fish oils.

I am doing VLF with zero starch, I posted a chronometer pic with daily calories.
Mainly skim milk(2L), white sugar(1.5cups), apple and OJ juice(1 cup), dry cottage cheese, gelatin and cooked fruits
Close to 3000 calories, 130g protein, even trying zero fat gets about 5g per day, mostly SFA.

Which fruits do you cook?
 

Orion

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Which fruits do you cook?

Apple, peach, cherries, mango, pineapple, these are usually the main ones, cook them down for about 2hrs, and extra fructose, salt, bicarb, and some gelatin.

Some I buy in frozen pouches, since ripe fruit is hard to come by. I cook enough to use about 1 cup per day for about a week.
 

ilovethesea

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Yes I definitely think that PUFA on the skin is bad and is absorbed and would directly block progesterone production in the skin and increase estrogen locally.
I saw your post in the sugar and aging thread, reduced inflammation due to lowered immune response, all the PUFAs do this, omega-6 to fish oils.

Ok, that makes sense. Same mechanism as fish oil so it would just be the lowered inflammation of the skin.

I'm thinking a lot of these people are maybe too young to notice any negative skin impact from taking PUFA topically/internally -ie. that over time their skin would look more prematurely aged from the immune/thyroid suppression.

So many people just chalk up negative changes in their appearance as "normal aging" when it's actually a side effect of poor health.
 

Agent207

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Could it be an issue of delta-6 desaturase not working properly? I think b6 and magnesium are cofactors for this enzyme.

I did notice a noticeable skin drying effect over time after forcing a very low pufa diet as experiment, around 4-5gr. After 1 year I pushed back to a -still moderate- more natural, less pufa restricted diet -10gr or so- from healthy foods like avocados and olives and skin went back to normal in a matter of weeks. Never had acne, just very little at adolescence.

Gla seems someway to impact positively in skin appearance.
 
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andy

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This is also my experience.The gla from evening primrose oil helps my skin enormously .I have proved to myself many times over that when I have no pufa then skin goes dry and older .The corners of my mouth start to crack as well.2-3 grams of EPO within 2 days makes my skin very moist and hydrated.Why is that a bad thing.?some people say lack of vitamin b6 may be the issue.I have taken 15mg of b6 for about 2 weeks and it does nothing for my skin.some Japanese people for instance eat oily fish and their skin is immaculate even in old age.I am very confused about the whole thing.I have recently started to eat liver 2-3 times a week and will start taking retinol to see if I can get the same cosmetic effect without the EPO.Does Ray basically say that the foods he advocates eating are correct for everyone.?Asians I know cannot handle milk.period.cheese also a problem.Others I know when they have white sugar balloon up and look very pot bellied.I wish I could eat like orion does but I feel I need more solid food ie lots of potatoes.incidentally when I do cut off the starch my skin does take on the appearance of looking younger(may be in my head)When I cut off milk my bags seem to recede( but then more anxiety)
 

bohogirl

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This is also my experience.The gla from evening primrose oil helps my skin enormously .I have proved to myself many times over that when I have no pufa then skin goes dry and older .The corners of my mouth start to crack as well.2-3 grams of EPO within 2 days makes my skin very moist and hydrated.Why is that a bad thing.?some people say lack of vitamin b6 may be the issue.I have taken 15mg of b6 for about 2 weeks and it does nothing for my skin.some Japanese people for instance eat oily fish and their skin is immaculate even in old age.I am very confused about the whole thing.I have recently started to eat liver 2-3 times a week and will start taking retinol to see if I can get the same cosmetic effect without the EPO.Does Ray basically say that the foods he advocates eating are correct for everyone.?Asians I know cannot handle milk.period.cheese also a problem.Others I know when they have white sugar balloon up and look very pot bellied.I wish I could eat like orion does but I feel I need more solid food ie lots of potatoes.incidentally when I do cut off the starch my skin does take on the appearance of looking younger(may be in my head)When I cut off milk my bags seem to recede( but then more anxiety)

Did you ever have a problem with acne? I know a lot of people say EPO helps their acne.

I'm tempted to try it but also read it breaks some people out.
 

andy

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Hi I have had a problem with acne ever since I started to drink milk (or cottage cheese)I think the dairy seems to dry my skin .The evening primrose oil seems to add moisture into my skin .I don't think it reduces the acne.However if I cut it out then my skin gets very dry.I have recently started to read the zone diet by Dr barry sears and he is of the opinion that as skin ages it looses collagen and elastin .He is a massive advocate of fish oils.Anyway I thought I may give it a try since he mentioned that the omega 3 and omega 6 balance is critical for reducing inflammation.I found that eating mackerel (3 times a week) in combination with 3 g EPO does wonders for the skin in terms of looking better(also the omega 3 has helped enormously in the male department)I have also tried vitamin b6 (before the oils)about 50 mg day ,also liver twice a week and my skin stayed dry.Also I should mention that before the mackerel I was using 3 g of fish oil and for me it does not have the same effect ie gives me acne.I have noticed that when I have a lot of sugar as in white sugar(tried icing sugar ) my body does start to warm up(great) but for me my skin goes very dry.I read somewhere this means you need more vitamin a.?I think orion has no starch.I have potatoes so maybe this is not helping me.Also have noticed some people age very badly ie lots of lines and wrinkles (could it be diet or genetics?)I wish Ray would write something specifically about the skin ,especially on how to get back the fat pads in the face that seem to get lost with aging giving rise to loss of volume etc.
 

bohogirl

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Hi I have had a problem with acne ever since I started to drink milk (or cottage cheese)I think the dairy seems to dry my skin .The evening primrose oil seems to add moisture into my skin .I don't think it reduces the acne.However if I cut it out then my skin gets very dry.I have recently started to read the zone diet by Dr barry sears and he is of the opinion that as skin ages it looses collagen and elastin .He is a massive advocate of fish oils.Anyway I thought I may give it a try since he mentioned that the omega 3 and omega 6 balance is critical for reducing inflammation.I found that eating mackerel (3 times a week) in combination with 3 g EPO does wonders for the skin in terms of looking better(also the omega 3 has helped enormously in the male department)I have also tried vitamin b6 (before the oils)about 50 mg day ,also liver twice a week and my skin stayed dry.Also I should mention that before the mackerel I was using 3 g of fish oil and for me it does not have the same effect ie gives me acne.I have noticed that when I have a lot of sugar as in white sugar(tried icing sugar ) my body does start to warm up(great) but for me my skin goes very dry.I read somewhere this means you need more vitamin a.?I think orion has no starch.I have potatoes so maybe this is not helping me.Also have noticed some people age very badly ie lots of lines and wrinkles (could it be diet or genetics?)I wish Ray would write something specifically about the skin ,especially on how to get back the fat pads in the face that seem to get lost with aging giving rise to loss of volume etc.
I've been eating liver and oysters and my skin is now getting dry. Not sure what this means.
 

tomisonbottom

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I've been eating liver and oysters and my skin is now getting dry. Not sure what this means.

It's possible it's increasing your metabolism with all the vitamin A in the liver. Are you still doing that?
Do you think you were eating enough at the time for an increased metabolism?
 

bohogirl

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It's possible it's increasing your metabolism with all the vitamin A in the liver. Are you still doing that?
Do you think you were eating enough at the time for an increased metabolism?

I don't remember. I do think liver makes me breakout sometimes. It's hard to pinpoint what causes it exactly but I had liver and broke out, could be other things though. It's so nasty that I haven't been eating it.

I do eat oysters and think those help, along with other things. They don't help by themselves.

What I do know is that eating tuna, salmon, and sardines helps the skin a lot. I had a lot of cysts that came out, and when eating these 3 daily, they shrunk to nothing.

I know this isn't what everyone wants to hear.
 
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