The psychology of compulsive supplementation

[OccamzRazer]

"If drugs and supplements really work, kings and the richest men in human history should’ve been the healthiest and lived the longest. But it has never been so."

~ Heal Yourself Naturally Now

 

[aniciete]

More people should read through this post. It would save them a lot of time and money.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

The problem is many of us on the forum don't have the intellectual depth and the science background to fully get a complete picture. So we throw supplements in the hope that something works and we don't have to dig deeper.

I have high cortisol >> take x, y, z supplements of hormones
I have low body temps >> take thyroid
I have high estrogen >> take stuff to lower estrogen.

As much we the forum members view themselves as smart, and free-thinkers, the reality is most of us are treating the effects, not getting to the root cause.
I used to think Peat was genius-like, that he is a rare scientist, that he holds some superior and powerful knowledge. Eventually, I came to realized that Peat can not save you, that his teachings can only give you a slight advantage in the grand scheme of things. The man has been taking thyroid for decades, I'd dare to say he hasn't figured much out. Danny Roddy is in his mid 30s and taking thyroid. That's insane. Most of his tips/ advice are very rooted in his view of physiology and hormones, and he views everything through this lens.

 

[Nomane Euger]

The problem is many of us on the forum don't have the intellectual depth and the science background to fully get a complete picture. So we throw supplements in the hope that something works and we don't have to dig deeper.

I have high cortisol >> take x, y, z supplements of hormones
I have low body temps >> take thyroid
I have high estrogen >> take stuff to lower estrogen.

As much we the forum members view themselves as smart, and free-thinkers, the reality is most of us are treating the effects, not getting to the root cause.
I used to think Peat was genius-like, that he holds some superior and powerful knowledge. Eventually, I came to realized that Peat can not save you, that his teachings can only give you a slight advantage in the grand scheme of things. The man has been taking thyroid for decades, I'd dare to say he hasn't figured much out.

hi, you don't need "intellectual depth" or "scientific background" or a "complete picture", "science" is mostly people making associations with varying degrees of credibility, and different degrees of sophistication in removing confounding factors.if by the root cause you mean the exact primary phenomenon or sets of primary phenomena in a body, which cause another specific phenomenon which you consider as a symptom, then this is not possible, you can only make associations between different elements without excluding the possibility that there are other elements that you have not observed, and realized, which could also have an influence on the phenomenon that you consider to be a symptom. therefore there is no fundamental difference between a person trying to deal with a problem with a single element without thinking of having "the bigger picture" to solve his problem, and a person who would try to deal with this problem with a perspective having more words, more phrases, more associations, more "science", more " bigger picture ". and you can observe it yourself, some people just follow their intuitions and solve their problems, others seem to manifest a "deep knowledge" and do not solve their problem.

the most important thing is to pay attention to your feelings, and not to go astray because such a theory claims such a thing is supposed to have such an effect on your body.there is no difference between Peat taking suplemental thyroid or a baby drinking breast milk,what matter is does the element you interact with increase certain characteristics of your being that you wish to increase and or does it diminish certain characteristics that you wish to diminish,if the element permit you to influence the characteristics you wish to influence on medium/long term,therefore you feel better,its good for you,whever its ""natural" "ancestral"based,or "synthetic based",the fact that ray peat or anyone still take thyroid is an irelevant factor to gauge if he has figured out things.ray peat experiences,and any other person experiences are just claims that allow you to explore new perspectives,therefore you can experiment if you want to and see wich effects it has on you.Peoples that dont "perceive think act"and do embrasse theories independently of how these things make them feel,because they have a certain degree of "respect","idolatry" for the person that brought the theory,will progress much more slowly in their health/energy quest.if you cant reach your health/energy goals only by your self,the second best solution is to look at peoples that do possess theses characteristics you wish to have,and to try to identify certains causal factors of these characteristics,so you can experiment with it.

A person won't know how valuable are some of the insights that Ray peat is claiming , far more valuable than most of the science most people are routinely exposed to, until the person experiences certain specific physical and mental feelings her self, then the person will realize the extraordinary potential of these perspectives, whether the herald of these perspectives is Ray Peat or anyone who has also experienced it and preache them, it could change the world, for the better

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

One-size-fits-all statements like these rarely fit all people.

elevated cortisol, estrogen, and fatty acid oxidation, will always be bad for you. there is no exception where it's not, only that some people will have positive results, and not-apparent sides, with the shot of a glucocorticoid - kinda like how athletes take cortisone all the time... doesn't mean it's healthy just because it lowers the injury inflammation and they can get back on the field to keep playing - that's super unhealthy. Fasting is the natural way to produce a cortisone shot.

sorry I'm hammering your otherwise decent point, but I wanna establish the Ray Peat view, for lurkers, lol.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Danny Roddy is in his mid 30s and taking thyroid. That's insane.

but, didn't many peoples historically consume thyroid containing foods?

I'm sure if Danny could get ahold of the ground beef that used to contain thyroid gland, or the chicken necks that contained the gland, this would be preferred - Ray says to consume the actual gland where possible.

 

[Nebula]

The problem is many of us on the forum don't have the intellectual depth and the science background to fully get a complete picture. So we throw supplements in the hope that something works and we don't have to dig deeper.

I have high cortisol >> take x, y, z supplements of hormones
I have low body temps >> take thyroid
I have high estrogen >> take stuff to lower estrogen.

As much we the forum members view themselves as smart, and free-thinkers, the reality is most of us are treating the effects, not getting to the root cause.
I used to think Peat was genius-like, that he is a rare scientist, that he holds some superior and powerful knowledge. Eventually, I came to realized that Peat can not save you, that his teachings can only give you a slight advantage in the grand scheme of things. The man has been taking thyroid for decades, I'd dare to say he hasn't figured much out. Danny Roddy is in his mid 30s and taking thyroid. That's insane. Most of his tips/ advice are very rooted in his view of physiology and hormones, and he views everything through this lens.

Ray’s research as I understand it is about reversing adaptations to stressful environments. For many of us especially with peasant ancestry this goes back many generations. We have been malnutritioned, poisoned and overworked for hundreds of years. Peat’s research doesn’t suggest a quick fix is possible, but that several repeated generations of pro metabolic conditions can make lasting positive changes in an organism. Thyroid and some pro hormones might be the right tool for some people, but more general non supplemental things like sunlight and endotoxin free gut benefit everyone.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

but, didn't many peoples historically consume thyroid containing foods?

I'm sure if Danny could get ahold of the ground beef that used to contain thyroid gland, or the chicken necks that contained the gland, this would be preferred - Ray says to consume the actual gland where possible.

All I know is there are still healthy, young, vibrant people in today's environment, and they don't need to take thyroid or anything. If your health/ anti-aging strategy doesn't get you at least to the level I described above, then you really aren't doing anything significant.

 

[Nomane Euger]

All I know is there are still healthy, young, vibrant people in today's environment, and they don't need to take thyroid or anything. If your health/ anti-aging strategy doesn't get you at least to the level I described above, then you really aren't doing anything significant.

Which of these attributes you mentioned is Danny Roddy missing?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Which of these attributes you mentioned is Danny Roddy missing?

He is not missing them, but he is a young man taking thyroid hormones.

 

[Nomane Euger]

He is not missing them, but he is a young man taking thyroid hormones.

wich negatives do you perceive of still taking thyroid hormones as long as it participate in making you having these attributes?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

wich negatives do you perceive of still taking thyroid hormones as long as it participate in making you having these attributes?

It’s the equivalent of taking Testosterone and preaching how your diet and lifestyle are the reasons of your newly high T levels.

 

[Nomane Euger]

It’s the equivalent of taking Testosterone and preaching how your diet and lifestyle are the reasons of your newly high T levels.

does Danny Roddy preach that what make him feel the way he feel is his diet and lifestyle and that thyroid supplementation do not contribute to his good state?

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

All I know is there are still healthy, young, vibrant people in today's environment, and they don't need to take thyroid or anything.

I'm not disagreeing with this, but those people are failing in health very fast into their 50s-60s, and aging tremendously. I won't look at my own awesome health today at 28, and assume that taking thyroid daily, won't aid me in my future, just because I can't feel the stress events happening today. There are a predictable number of genetic mutations every day, from childhood, contributing to aging - when you're twenty, you don't feel these... it's when you're 40, that you begin noticing something is wrong. I'd like to slow that, however possible.

If your health/ anti-aging strategy doesn't get you at least to the level I described above, then you really aren't doing anything significant.

Just so we're clear, I believe in improving your health every natural way, possible, aka, moderate sunlight, proper diet, something closer to our ancestral health in nature, etc. but, taking Ray recommended doses of Thyroid, will absolutely significantly improve health, it'd just be foolhardy to not do the other things, as well.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Josiah Baldwin It’s not about being smart or fool, it’s about realising how little your “superior” diet and lifestyle accounts for, when you take out hormones out of the equation. Eating plenty of carbs, avoiding stress, eating lots of Calcium don’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Why do you need thyroid meds to raise your metabolism if your health knowledge/ philosophy is superior? Do you see where I’m getting.
Thyroid medications are probably a net positive if you respond well to it and don’t overdo it. For some, it’s very damaging.

If your diet/ protocol can’t achieve a high metabolism on its own, without using hormones, then perhaps your protocol is not that special, it’s it the ultimate truth.

 

[aniciete]

@Josiah Baldwin It’s not about being smart or fool, it’s about realising how little your “superior” diet and lifestyle accounts for, when you take out hormones out of the equation. Eating plenty of carbs, avoiding stress, eating lots of Calcium don’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Why do you need thyroid meds to raise your metabolism if your health knowledge/ philosophy is superior? Do you see where I’m getting.
Thyroid medications are probably a net positive if you respond well to it and don’t overdo it. For some, it’s very damaging.

If your diet/ protocol can’t achieve a high metabolism on its own, without using hormones, then perhaps your protocol is not that special, it’s it the ultimate truth.

Agreed. What do you think of the various supplement regimens people use to feel well consuming these liquid heavy diets? After spending a lot of time on this forum, every individual consuming a diet mostly of milk and fruit use copious amounts of supplements/hormones/drugs to “feel well”. Even Danny Roddy said he tried stopping thyroid supplementation in Mexico and became hypothyroid again. If consuming a “pro-metabolic” and “pro-thyroid” diet, why would he feel ill after just one day of no cynoplus? Instead of relying on drugs and supplements to feel well, shouldn’t we strive to live in an optimal environment, eat the best foods, spend time with people we love and not over complicate things? IMO the basics are the most important keys to health.

 

[Nomane Euger]

@Josiah Baldwin It’s not about being smart or fool, it’s about realising how little your “superior” diet and lifestyle accounts for, when you take out hormones out of the equation. Eating plenty of carbs, avoiding stress, eating lots of Calcium don’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Why do you need thyroid meds to raise your metabolism if your health knowledge/ philosophy is superior? Do you see where I’m getting.
Thyroid medications are probably a net positive if you respond well to it and don’t overdo it. For some, it’s very damaging.

If your diet/ protocol can’t achieve a high metabolism on its own, without using hormones, then perhaps your protocol is not that special, it’s it the ultimate truth.

how do you know to which degree thyroid supplementation account for dany roddy health?having the wiseness to take thyroid if it participate to make you feel good,and better than most,thats superior knowledge.

your diet contain compounds influencing your body and your hormones,a lot of things you are expose you incuding foods do influence your body,some are out of your controls,if supplemental hormones make you feel better long term,thats being dumb to not take it."diet/protocol" does not exclude thyroid supplementations,thyroid supplementations are no different than anything that you include in your "diet/protocol".

it is like a person complaining about another person having a gun therefore more power and saying"thats not fair you have a gun,you dont know much ho to have power with out a gun"and then the first person get shot,and die.with this frame of mind "natural""unatural" we do not evolve,we do not try new things that are not "ancestrals"

 

[Nomane Euger]

@aniciete hi boy,why do you make a distinction between hormones/supplements and foods?if danny would be eating beef thyroid,then it would be consider "food",and if he would feel worst with out it,it doesnt mean the rest of his diet/life styles has no value and it doenst mean that only thyroid hormones on it self would be enough to make him feel good independently of other factors,thyroid is just one of the factors among the factors that allow him to feel the way he feel"natural" "synthetic",thats relativism,thats not even a relevant factor that something is "natural" or "synthetic",everything animals do people consider it natural and not synthetic,same for humans,we are part "nature",if we manufacture a new product,it become part of "nature",what matter is do your life styles factors/elements you interact with make you feel good long term,even if removing one of these elements make you feel worst,it doesnt discreditate the rest of the elements/life styles factors,danny couldnt feel good long term only with thyroid supplementation

 

[OccamzRazer]

All I know is there are still healthy, young, vibrant people in today's environment, and they don't need to take thyroid or anything. If your health/ anti-aging strategy doesn't get you at least to the level I described above, then you really aren't doing anything significant.

True, tho their offspring may not be as healthy as they are.

I'm starting to think that thyroid is really important for those who live in cold climates...and not so important for those who live in warm climates.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

@Josiah Baldwin It’s not about being smart or fool, it’s about realising how little your “superior” diet and lifestyle accounts for, when you take out hormones out of the equation. Eating plenty of carbs, avoiding stress, eating lots of Calcium don’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Why do you need thyroid meds to raise your metabolism if your health knowledge/ philosophy is superior? Do you see where I’m getting.
Thyroid medications are probably a net positive if you respond well to it and don’t overdo it. For some, it’s very damaging.

If your diet/ protocol can’t achieve a high metabolism on its own, without using hormones, then perhaps your protocol is not that special, it’s it the ultimate truth.

“Eating plenty of carbs, avoiding stress, eating lots of Calcium don’t really make a difference in the grand scheme of things.”

I can’t tell if you’re saying that that’s what supplementing people think, or you mean that; but, I’ve found these things to help my metabolism, significantly. However, I’ve also found Thyroid helps.
The only negative to eating thyroid, is not eating enough calories and carbs with it…

It’s kinda like eating meat cuz it’s healthy, and not eating dairy since meat is already healthy.
Why does it have to be binary? Why not both?

Thyroid gland is a food, after all. It gets cut off the animal during dressing, and either gets eaten by humans, or eaten by animals.