The psychology of compulsive supplementation

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OccamzRazer

OccamzRazer

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I appreciate that you seem to have broken people's brains by mentioning fasting @OccamzRazer. I largely agree with you on the supplementation part. Also, I feel as though some aren't in touch with their body as they may feel and would highly benefit from things like blood tests rather than going by feel. An example that comes to mind is people believing theyre radically suppressing their estrogen by using 1mg Androsterone a day, or people believing that taking Vitamin K for a few months gave them a new face.
Thanks very much!

Drawing this much attention to fasting wasn't my intention, but it is what it is. Was really hoping to hear more about energy work, chi activation, etc - things like sufi whirling, paidalajin, meditation, sexual transmutation, etc.

And yes...people aren't all that in touch with their bodies, and sometimes that shows in funny ways. I can't blame them, tho - we're not taught how to be in touch with these promptings as children, which is really a shame.
 
P

Peatness

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You are probably right.

I wonder if modified fasting would work. Bone broth, fruit, and maybe some additional MCT or coconut oil...would probably be enough to burn off PUFA slowly.

Even when fasting isn't the right choice, people can consider other types of inward-to-outward healing.
Yes, I guess a modified fasting would work, some vitamin E would protect the pufa. Being in nature is healing.
 

stressless

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And I'm glad you are into the traditional Catholic way! (One of my friends is a nun so I've heard all about Vatican II.)

I've seen Vatican 2 mentioned a few times on this forum - growing up, I always thought it was something rarely discussed, but good to know you've also heard about this! I love how a discussion on supplements can segue into this topic ?
 
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OccamzRazer

OccamzRazer

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Yes, I guess a modified fasting would work, some vitamin E would protect the pufa. Being in nature is healing.
If one were to fast, being out in nature would probably make it much safer.

Fasting without intending to is prob way healthier than forcing yourself to go without food, especially when such food is just around the corner sitting in the fridge...
 
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OccamzRazer

OccamzRazer

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It would be optimal to go to mexico and start a farm and eat your own produce and hit all the RDI's that way but that's not the case for most
Yes! The realization that you live in a suboptimal environment is one of the toughest realizations of all. Don't know about you, but I'd move wayy down South in a heartbeat if I didn't have supportive family here in the States.

And, until we are all raising and butchering our own animals, we are stuck buying NDT or T3, or looking for other ways to boost thyroid function.

Maybe supplementation's major role is to 'fill in the gaps' until an individual has enough energy to really dial in their environment...

...but I think inner work could fill in many of those same gaps, too.
 

mostlylurking

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Do you think 10mg needs to be balanced with other b vitamins or is it fine taken on it’s own?
I have no idea. I don't even know how I'd go about accurately measuring out 10mg of thiamine. I only know about my own issues from personal experience. I'm taking high dose thiamine hcl and supplementing other things to avoid deficiencies.
 

Ben.

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I am certainly guilty of trying a supplement due to a hype or some interesting new research when i shoudn't have. I sure found myself trowhing supplements in me in what we know as the kitchen sink approach out of desperation. But to a degree it became a hobby and a field of interest.

But i want to trowh in the counter argument that supplements might be a therapheutic self treatment when both the medical establishment has failed a person and the actions such as "not worrying about it" and just do the "hard long slow hussle" did not work out. For some, the body never started to heal again to the point where it should. No amount of discipline with a diet, no amount of psychological therapy sessions, no amount of "head on work" solving emotional and social issues and fear did it.

And then you find yourself trying a herb or a vitamin, at this point out of curiosity, not in the belief it will do anything since most of them didn't ... just to find lifelong issues suddenly resolving ... And it is because one was finally lucky to adress a symptom or ailment with the very thing the body might have always needed.
A person trying ivermectin for "covid", just to realise life suddenly works the way it always should've been, mentally, socially. Verbal fluidity, confidence and success with the opposite sex seem to work magically on its own.

A few drops of mythelen blue and suddenly mental abilities and memory is working again. Magnesium and suddenly one is able to enjoy a full nights sleep. A water or coffee enema and suddenly all the joint inflammations are gone.

In essence ... a whole new world opens up to a person. A way to figure things out for oneself. How to take care of one self. A road or a tool to deal with learned helplessness and victimhood. Even if it was just a dangerous trial and error.



In no way are supplements a magical pill and i think people on this forum know to well what kind of money waste/money sink supplements can be with empty promises.
The buisness is filled with shady practices, synthetic toxic replicas of the real deal and often contain carcinogenic impurities. The contents, no matter how pure, might be the thing that destroys a persons health further. Yet they can be also that very thing, perhaps by sheer luck, that suddenly turns life around for some.

To be honest red light devices, weekly/monthly liver, thyroid etc. are all things i would put under the term "supplements". Its a umbrella term and it can relate to "vitamin", "herb", "amino acid" etc. etc.

But i understand your point. It can be a deadend. It can be a destructive practise and prevent someone in fixing the issue with simple things as thoose that you mentioned. To be honest, whatever health issues one has, i'd be open to try everything out. I know i am. Getting enough sunlight and moving enough is always good advice. That doesn't have to exclude the supplemental route however.

... Damn... i made a needless wall of text again ...
 

Rasaari

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I am certainly guilty of trying a supplement due to a hype or some interesting new research when i shoudn't have. I sure found myself trowhing supplements in me in what we know as the kitchen sink approach out of desperation. But to a degree it became a hobby and a field of interest.

But i want to trowh in the counter argument that supplements might be a therapheutic self treatment when both the medical establishment has failed a person and the actions such as "not worrying about it" and just do the "hard long slow hussle" did not work out. For some, the body never started to heal again to the point where it should. No amount of discipline with a diet, no amount of psychological therapy sessions, no amount of "head on work" solving emotional and social issues and fear did it.

And then you find yourself trying a herb or a vitamin, at this point out of curiosity, not in the belief it will do anything since most of them didn't ... just to find lifelong issues suddenly resolving ... And it is because one was finally lucky to adress a symptom or ailment with the very thing the body might have always needed.
A person trying ivermectin for "covid", just to realise life suddenly works the way it always should've been, mentally, socially. Verbal fluidity, confidence and success with the opposite sex seem to work magically on its own.

A few drops of mythelen blue and suddenly mental abilities and memory is working again. Magnesium and suddenly one is able to enjoy a full nights sleep. A water or coffee enema and suddenly all the joint inflammations are gone.

In essence ... a whole new world opens up to a person. A way to figure things out for oneself. How to take care of one self. A road or a tool to deal with learned helplessness and victimhood. Even if it was just a dangerous trial and error.



In no way are supplements a magical pill and i think people on this forum know to well what kind of money waste/money sink supplements can be with empty promises.
The buisness is filled with shady practices, synthetic toxic replicas of the real deal and often contain carcinogenic impurities. The contents, no matter how pure, might be the thing that destroys a persons health further. Yet they can be also that very thing, perhaps by sheer luck, that suddenly turns life around for some.

To be honest red light devices, weekly/monthly liver, thyroid etc. are all things i would put under the term "supplements". Its a umbrella term and it can relate to "vitamin", "herb", "amino acid" etc. etc.

But i understand your point. It can be a deadend. It can be a destructive practise and prevent someone in fixing the issue with simple things as thoose that you mentioned. To be honest, whatever health issues one has, i'd be open to try everything out. I know i am. Getting enough sunlight and moving enough is always good advice. That doesn't have to exclude the supplemental route however.

... Damn... i made a needless wall of text again ...
:darts:
 

conrad0602

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I
Just my 2c I fasted a lot in my early 20s, did lots of exercise, yoga, soul searching. Taking the right B vitamin eliminated chronic allergies I’ve had since high school. There is something fascistic to me about spirituality, it’s like you have to torture yourself for some semblance of truth and the target is always moving. There’s a lot of egoism involved as well. Oh look I’m kinder/more amenable/insert whatever spiritual value people prize here.
When someone fasts for spiritual reasons it should be about letting go of the attachment to food, creating a healthier relationship with it and an increased respect for it. Letting go of the ego, as apposed to the fast being ego driven. Learning to be ok when things aren't a certain way and simply being ok with what is.
 

L91

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Literally get an arrhythmia when I fast, but sure its healthy fo everyone....
 
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OccamzRazer

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Literally get an arrhythmia when I fast, but sure its healthy fo everyone....
Who said it's healthy [for] everyone?

Fasting's effectiveness - or lack thereof - really isn't even the point of this thread.
 

L91

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Who said it's healthy [for] everyone?

Fasting's effectiveness - or lack thereof - really isn't even the point of this thread.
Oh I tried to reply to a specific comment, that offhandedly said people would do better if they just fasted and a few other things
 
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Emotional intelligence is more important than IQ because it directly opposes authoritarianism. IQ is merely a tool, and its effect depends on who is wielding it. High IQ in the hands of people with low EQ is very bad, and in the hands of people with high EQ is very good.
abzKyzL_700b.jpg

However, EQ is nevertheless intelligence and its growth benefits from metabolism. Many people are deficient in thyroid and thiamine. I believe thyroid supplementation would more appropriately fall under exogenous. Also, you're right about sunlight being better than exogenously produced vitamin D, not because there's anything wrong with supplementation, but because so many people respond badly to supplemental vitamin D. Peat himself uses a light bulb that produces UV rays to create his vitamin D.

 

Blossom

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I have found prayer, an elimination diet and time in nature (especially outdoor walks) extremely healing. I have often wondered if I could have helped myself more early on by focusing on these things rather than supplements. I have had really positive experiences with supplements too but I think that’s mainly due to celiac, malabsorption and long term deficiencies.

This past year I started paying more attention to light and wish I had done that sooner.
 

freyasam

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I believe Peat said high-carbohydrate diets require thiamine supplementation to prevent deficiency. I have trouble finding the quote.
I haven't read all the comments yet, but if you find the quote I'd love to see it.
 
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OccamzRazer

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In essence ... a whole new world opens up to a person. A way to figure things out for oneself. How to take care of one self. A road or a tool to deal with learned helplessness and victimhood. Even if it was just a dangerous trial and error.
Good point! Supplementation can be empowering when it allows a person to take their health into their own hands.

It sure felt that way when I was experimenting with prog/preg/DHEA to gain weight - it felt good to circumvent the conventional 'hardgainer' route and not be tempted by SARMs/steroids/whatever.

But i understand your point. It can be a deadend. It can be a destructive practise and prevent someone in fixing the issue with simple things as thoose that you mentioned. To be honest, whatever health issues one has, i'd be open to try everything out. I know i am. Getting enough sunlight and moving enough is always good advice. That doesn't have to exclude the supplemental route however.

... Damn... i made a needless wall of text again ...
Hey, sometimes a wall of text is needed to cover all the nuances inherent in a topic!

Perhaps this isn't about supplementing vs. not supplementing...but about what to try first.

That seems to be Peat's perspective - try the simple, accessible things first, then thyroid, before moving along to more specialised sup's.
 
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OccamzRazer

OccamzRazer

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Emotional intelligence is more important than IQ because it directly opposes authoritarianism. IQ is merely a tool, and its effect depends on who is wielding it. High IQ in the hands of people with low EQ is very bad, and in the hands of people with high EQ is very good.
View attachment 32315
However, EQ is nevertheless intelligence and its growth benefits from metabolism. Many people are deficient in thyroid and thiamine. I believe thyroid supplementation would more appropriately fall under exogenous. Also, you're right about sunlight being better than exogenously produced vitamin D, not because there's anything wrong with supplementation, but because so many people respond badly to supplemental vitamin D. Peat himself uses a light bulb that produces UV rays to create his vitamin D.

Insightful points...may have to print off that pic, it's a good reminder!
 
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OccamzRazer

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I have found prayer, an elimination diet and time in nature (especially outdoor walks) extremely healing. I have often wondered if I could have helped myself more early on by focusing on these things rather than supplements. I have had really positive experiences with supplements too but I think that’s mainly due to celiac, malabsorption and long term deficiencies.
Nice! Prayer is huge. Some people believe it expands the size and strength of one's electromagnetic field, conferring health benefits that way.

Only hindsight is 2020 I guess...but what supplements did you notice the biggest difference from?
 

Blossom

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Only hindsight is 2020 I guess...but what supplements did you notice the biggest difference from?
An additive free multi vitamin/mineral I order from the uk and LGS thyroid glandular.
 

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