Can optimal hormones and thyroid levels be achieved without supplements? Is this the end goal?

[dervmai]

One end goal of my health is this- To achieve optimal thyroid levels without relying on thyroid hormones and to have optimal hormone levels without relying on supplements.

By starting to take doses that start to down regulate the thyroid, causing a reliance on the thyroid hormones, I start going in the opposite direction of my end goal.

I sat down today and read a good amount of forum posts and articles relating to optimizing thyroid levels without reliance on external stimulants such as t3 or NDT.

This is what I concluded, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still relatively new to Ray Peats philosophies.-->
The end goal for everyone here should be to achieve optimal levels without supplementation. To achieve this, one must do as follows: A clean diet customized for yourself void of irritating foods, focusing on gut health and optimal bowel movements and minimizing endotoxins. Balancing your vitamins and minerals through real whole foods (liver, oysters, meat, fruits, certain vegetables). Adequate sunlight exposure and grounding and reducing EMF radiation and just overall reducing stress. Proper movement (Avoiding intense exercise but also avoiding a sedentary lifestyle). This is just a very basic foundation for achieving optimal health without reliance on supplements. There are still more things like detoxing (liver cleanses), heavy metal chelating etc...

There are cases however where you need supplementation like if your thyroid is too far gone, or if you have no thyroid gland etc... but I suspect only a few people here are at this point.... and I suspect if they addressed their thyroid issues earlier in their life instead of living horribly (High PUFA, high stress, bad diet) for 40-50 years, they might have stopped the progression and possibly reversed their hypothyroidism.

Now the problem that arises is the modern era we find ourselves in, and the unavoidable stressors we must experience daily. EMF radiation is rampant, it's everywhere... 5G!!!!! YAY!!!! : / , a messed up food supply riddled with pesticides and chemicals, toxic materials everywhere, in our soaps in our clothes in our cookware.........it's everywhere.

Life is suffering, suffering is inevitable.... stress is inevitable. This is just how we are... how we are wired... It wouldn't make sense biologically for us to be resistant to stress or anxiety.... it is a response designed to protect us.

I think the reason many people go into the supplementation route is because they realize this. That it is just too difficult to avoid stressors. However the issue that arises is when they cross the line... they are driven by their anxiety about their health and they need to take supplements to calm down their anxiety... to make themselves feel like they are doing something to slow the inevitable decaying and degrading of our bodies. The anxiety about their health is a problem in and of itself.

I am not against supplementation... I too fell down the same hole, supplement after supplement trying to see if maybe one of them will fix my issues.... I'm realizing this might also be wrong. Notice I say might... I am still uncertain what the right answer is... as with pretty much everything else in life.... am I really doing what is right and what is good for my body? It seems that with our current knowledge on health... only God knows the answer to this.

I think the general consensus is that we all should be actively trying to achieve homeostasis in our bodies as naturally as possible. But I don't really see this on this forum.... Instead all I see is people telling people to try this supplement or try this one.... I ask everyone who is reading this.... Are you all trying to achieve health as naturally as possible? I'm not writing this post in a state of overflowing knowledge and enlightenment, in fact it is quite the opposite... I am confused... I am the most confused I have ever been. What is right? What is optimal health? Hmm maybe the answer is living life as naturally as possible... But then again living natural might not even be right..... after all nature is designed to kill us.... so many poisonous plants and venomous animals and so many illnesses and diseases..... 99% of species go extinct. What even is natures goal, is it to keep evolving into some sort of godlike deity by eliminating weakness and disease via evolution (Darwinism)? What happens at the end of everything? Are we in an infinite sick loop or are we just in one linear timeline? Who is behind everything? Is it God? Does God even exists? Do we have a purpose or is our existence some sort of funny joke? Maybe it's not even a joke maybe we just are just because we are. So many questions so little answers.... I feel hopeless... life sometimes just feels pointless... But I don't try to linger on thoughts like these too much... it is beyond me.... and I don't think I will ever get answers. I'm getting a bit off topic here so let me get back on topic.

In a theoretical world where there are no environmental stressors and everyone is happy and anxiety and stress free... will perfect health be the norm? Meaning that every instance of illness and disease has a reason, and possibly with technology we can retrace and fix and cure every illnesses? Or is it the other way around.... Death and illness is natural and unavoidable??? The theoretical world where there are no stressors and anxiety... that is unnatural. Is this where Ray Peats philosophies originate from? His practices and way of life is designed to counteract that which is natural.... like some sort of freak scientist trying to cure death (I'm not trying saying this in a negative connotation) I'm not stating anything... I'm asking what is right.

Back to the topic of supplements, specifically thyroid. I feel like we should avoid any unnecessary supplementation. Too many issues that can arise.... taking random vitamins at super physiological doses just because some one on a forum told you too isn't a smart idea. You are probably just throwing something out of order.
In regards to thyroid supplementation... One's end goal should be to have optimal levels without supplementation that causes reliance... meaning taking just enough where you aren't downregulating (I don't know if this is possible for everyone, and this is one of my main questions, is it possible for the majority of hypothyroid people out there to take a dose that doesn't cause down regulation but still puts your thyroid levels in the optimal range?) however if nature is out to kill us... which it is sadly... I love mother nature, she is beautiful and demands admiration, yet our appreciation is not reciprocated. The natural course of our life is that we will slowly lose energy, our cells will start to wither.... cellular regeneration slows down... and eventually cellular degradation will overtake the process of cellular regeneration.... and we will slowly (not that slowly at all really, our lives have basically already ended when we think about it in relation to time which as far as we know is infinite) start to die.

So what is right? I think we do need supplements if we really want to do something to slow down the natural process of dying. However there is a fine line in terms of proper dosage and what supplements we should take. Discard everything that is unnecessary, and include everything that is necessary.... easier said than done though. In terms on thyroid supplements.... What is the perfect dose? But before we can ask that.... we must ask why are you hypothyroid? Many many people on this forum are on too high of a dose than what is "right". Why? Because there is still an underlying cause... right????????? If they addressed the underlying cause... their thyroid dose would lower or the need for it would go away... I think I'm on the right track here. Please correct me if I'm wrong. As I stated above, I'm not writing this post from a state of higher and correct knowledge, it is from a state of confusion. Like say someone like @mostlylurking who takes like 1000 mg of thiamine, is it "correct" for her to take that much. Will you ever be able to lower your thiamine dosage? I think you mentioned your main cause for the deficiency in the first place was because of mercury poisoning... which you say is lifelong? So do you ever see yourself lowering your dosage of thiamine at all?

So to end this long post...
Can optimal hormones and thyroid levels be achieved without supplementations for the vast majority of people? Even the severely hypothyroid people on this forum? Vitamin and mineral balances can also be achieved naturally via diet etc... but what about thyroid levels and hormones like DHEA and progesterone.

 

[Nik665]

One end goal of my health is this- To achieve optimal thyroid levels without relying on thyroid hormones and to have optimal hormone levels without relying on supplements.

By starting to take doses that start to down regulate the thyroid, causing a reliance on the thyroid hormones, I start going in the opposite direction of my end goal.

I sat down today and read a good amount of forum posts and articles relating to optimizing thyroid levels without reliance on external stimulants such as t3 or NDT.

This is what I concluded, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm still relatively new to Ray Peats philosophies.-->
The end goal for everyone here should be to achieve optimal levels without supplementation. To achieve this, one must do as follows: A clean diet customized for yourself void of irritating foods, focusing on gut health and optimal bowel movements and minimizing endotoxins. Balancing your vitamins and minerals through real whole foods (liver, oysters, meat, fruits, certain vegetables). Adequate sunlight exposure and grounding and reducing EMF radiation and just overall reducing stress. Proper movement (Avoiding intense exercise but also avoiding a sedentary lifestyle). This is just a very basic foundation for achieving optimal health without reliance on supplements. There are still more things like detoxing (liver cleanses), heavy metal chelating etc...

There are cases however where you need supplementation like if your thyroid is too far gone, or if you have no thyroid gland etc... but I suspect only a few people here are at this point.... and I suspect if they addressed their thyroid issues earlier in their life instead of living horribly (High PUFA, high stress, bad diet) for 40-50 years, they might have stopped the progression and possibly reversed their hypothyroidism.

Now the problem that arises is the modern era we find ourselves in, and the unavoidable stressors we must experience daily. EMF radiation is rampant, it's everywhere... 5G!!!!! YAY!!!! : / , a messed up food supply riddled with pesticides and chemicals, toxic materials everywhere, in our soaps in our clothes in our cookware.........it's everywhere.

Life is suffering, suffering is inevitable.... stress is inevitable. This is just how we are... how we are wired... It wouldn't make sense biologically for us to be resistant to stress or anxiety.... it is a response designed to protect us.

I think the reason many people go into the supplementation route is because they realize this. That it is just too difficult to avoid stressors. However the issue that arises is when they cross the line... they are driven by their anxiety about their health and they need to take supplements to calm down their anxiety... to make themselves feel like they are doing something to slow the inevitable decaying and degrading of our bodies. The anxiety about their health is a problem in and of itself.

I am not against supplementation... I too fell down the same hole, supplement after supplement trying to see if maybe one of them will fix my issues.... I'm realizing this might also be wrong. Notice I say might... I am still uncertain what the right answer is... as with pretty much everything else in life.... am I really doing what is right and what is good for my body? It seems that with our current knowledge on health... only God knows the answer to this.

I think the general consensus is that we all should be actively trying to achieve homeostasis in our bodies as naturally as possible. But I don't really see this on this forum.... Instead all I see is people telling people to try this supplement or try this one.... I ask everyone who is reading this.... Are you all trying to achieve health as naturally as possible? I'm not writing this post in a state of overflowing knowledge and enlightenment, in fact it is quite the opposite... I am confused... I am the most confused I have ever been. What is right? What is optimal health? Hmm maybe the answer is living life as naturally as possible... But then again living natural might not even be right..... after all nature is designed to kill us.... so many poisonous plants and venomous animals and so many illnesses and diseases..... 99% of species go extinct. What even is natures goal, is it to keep evolving into some sort of godlike deity by eliminating weakness and disease via evolution (Darwinism)? What happens at the end of everything? Are we in an infinite sick loop or are we just in one linear timeline? Who is behind everything? Is it God? Does God even exists? Do we have a purpose or is our existence some sort of funny joke? Maybe it's not even a joke maybe we just are just because we are. So many questions so little answers.... I feel hopeless... life sometimes just feels pointless... But I don't try to linger on thoughts like these too much... it is beyond me.... and I don't think I will ever get answers. I'm getting a bit off topic here so let me get back on topic.

In a theoretical world where there are no environmental stressors and everyone is happy and anxiety and stress free... will perfect health be the norm? Meaning that every instance of illness and disease has a reason, and possibly with technology we can retrace and fix and cure every illnesses? Or is it the other way around.... Death and illness is natural and unavoidable??? The theoretical world where there are no stressors and anxiety... that is unnatural. Is this where Ray Peats philosophies originate from? His practices and way of life is designed to counteract that which is natural.... like some sort of freak scientist trying to cure death (I'm not trying saying this in a negative connotation) I'm not stating anything... I'm asking what is right.

Back to the topic of supplements, specifically thyroid. I feel like we should avoid any unnecessary supplementation. Too many issues that can arise.... taking random vitamins at super physiological doses just because some one on a forum told you too isn't a smart idea. You are probably just throwing something out of order.
In regards to thyroid supplementation... One's end goal should be to have optimal levels without supplementation that causes reliance... meaning taking just enough where you aren't downregulating (I don't know if this is possible for everyone, and this is one of my main questions, is it possible for the majority of hypothyroid people out there to take a dose that doesn't cause down regulation but still puts your thyroid levels in the optimal range?) however if nature is out to kill us... which it is sadly... I love mother nature, she is beautiful and demands admiration, yet our appreciation is not reciprocated. The natural course of our life is that we will slowly lose energy, our cells will start to wither.... cellular regeneration slows down... and eventually cellular degradation will overtake the process of cellular regeneration.... and we will slowly (not that slowly at all really, our lives have basically already ended when we think about it in relation to time which as far as we know is infinite) start to die.

So what is right? I think we do need supplements if we really want to do something to slow down the natural process of dying. However there is a fine line in terms of proper dosage and what supplements we should take. Discard everything that is unnecessary, and include everything that is necessary.... easier said than done though. In terms on thyroid supplements.... What is the perfect dose? But before we can ask that.... we must ask why are you hypothyroid? Many many people on this forum are on too high of a dose than what is "right". Why? Because there is still an underlying cause... right????????? If they addressed the underlying cause... their thyroid dose would lower or the need for it would go away... I think I'm on the right track here. Please correct me if I'm wrong. As I stated above, I'm not writing this post from a state of higher and correct knowledge, it is from a state of confusion. Like say someone like @mostlylurking who takes like 1000 mg of thiamine, is it "correct" for her to take that much. Will you ever be able to lower your thiamine dosage? I think you mentioned your main cause for the deficiency in the first place was because of mercury poisoning... which you say is lifelong? So do you ever see yourself lowering your dosage of thiamine at all?

So to end this long post...
Can optimal hormones and thyroid levels be achieved without supplementations for the vast majority of people? Even the severely hypothyroid people on this forum? Vitamin and mineral balances can also be achieved naturally via diet etc... but about about thyroid levels and hormones like DHEA and progesterone.

I think most people do have fairly normal hormones and thyroid levels despite our terirble environment. But for the ones with imbalances they seem to be very sensitive to even small stressors of life which is why many feel the need to live remotely or not have children. It could be a sign the organism is excessively stressed, and in such an organism which so muchh sensitivity to the current damaging environment, they may need to remain on supplements short term to being them back to homeostasis. Ones who are even more damaged physically emotionally anf or mentally may need supplements and meds for life just to get by. Everyone is different when it comes to how much damage they have put their body through and how they deal with stressors. IMO I thinkearnjng to deal with stressors is the best way to help the organism recover and potentially not be reliant on supplements. I even know some people here who stash supplements for years to come because they become stressed thinking about how non functional they would be if they could not get their hands on thyroid or progesterone for example, I am not judging by the way but it seems to me such individuals may be perpetuating a stress cycle by feeling like they need a supplement for life, imo the best thing is to live life one day at a time and see what the organism needs

 

[Snicky]

I think most people do have fairly normal hormones and thyroid levels despite our terirble environment. But for the ones with imbalances they seem to be very sensitive to even small stressors of life which is why many feel the need to live remotely or not have children. It could be a sign the organism is excessively stressed, and in such an organism which so muchh sensitivity to the current damaging environment, they may need to remain on supplements short term to being them back to homeostasis. Ones who are even more damaged physically emotionally anf or mentally may need supplements and meds for life just to get by. Everyone is different when it comes to how much damage they have put their body through and how they deal with stressors. IMO I thinkearnjng to deal with stressors is the best way to help the organism recover and potentially not be reliant on supplements. I even know some people here who stash supplements for years to come because they become stressed thinking about how non functional they would be if they could not get their hands on thyroid or progesterone for example, I am not judging by the way but it seems to me such individuals may be perpetuating a stress cycle by feeling like they need a supplement for life, imo the best thing is to live life one day at a time and see what the organism needs

This describes me right now.

I am very easily stressed, have been for some years now, though am rather functional and successful in my job, etc..

I am pretty fixated on trying to fix my health through diet, supplements/sleep/movement/red light, etc etc..

My most recent thoughts, though, as I was also thrown into a life transition not entirely of my making, is that since what i was building with my partner will not come to fruition, and I have to pivot… I think I want the simplest life possible… mostly so I know I can dedicate ample time for myself: self-study, writing, reading, making things, enjoying nature, travel. I most likely will not have children of my own, in part due to having damaged my metabolism and thyroid somehow with my lifestyle or choices. Being as self-sufficient as possible seems attractive.

Kids for me are not the same (not a trigger) like other adults or situations can be, and I’d actually like to have them, but probably just cannot. (Hard pill for me to swallow).

On the one hand it sounds like defeat/negation/lowering standards to make my life outwardly small, but I also think many wise people would find it a very worthwhile / wholesome and ‘big’ way of living.

I do believe our emotional/mental state impacts physiology. We can free ourselves of the crutches of thyroid/supplements, in part, by believing we don’t need them. That would be a goal to work towards for me, too, in desiring to be the least dependent on others as possible.

 

[Snicky]

I should add that all of the above relates to the Jungian construct of feeling of powerlessness/helplessness, or engulfment/overwhelment, that most of us wrestle with in some way and at some point in our lives…

 

[youngsinatra]

I believe the global environment, air and food quality has just become too bad for most of us and many of us had a problematic diet (high PUFA, refined foods, irritants), problematic environment and/or toxic treatments in our upbringing. The personal health history plays a big role in my opinion.

Living with the Amish would probably be a possibility. They mostly eat traditional unadulterated nutrient-dense foods, live according to nature‘s circadian rhythm, are not vaccinated, avoid most medications like birth control, antibiotics and so forth.

 

[naevastar]

I feel I have read somewhere or heard on a podcast that Ray initially was looking for a way to achieve a nutrient rich diet on a (student) budget?
If people went back to cooking from scratch using good quality foods (and including meat, liver/organs in general, dairy products, eggs, fruits, carrots (+ starches) I do think it would be possible for more people to achieve good health.
But it also depends where you live.
Nordic countries have many months with low sun exposure.
Living in a country such as Norway it is basically impossible to get a hold of thyroid supplements (and many other supplements) unless you are actually "diagnosed" officially. So I am kind of forced to achieve optimum health without it.

I have been able to purchase Ray Peat's progest E twice though I suspect this has been pure luck as it has been labelled as beauty oil on the declaration..

I think eating well is achievable for many however reducing general stress in life, work situation, economy, every day life is challenging too.

 

[dervmai]

I feel I have read somewhere or heard on a podcast that Ray initially was looking for a way to achieve a nutrient rich diet on a (student) budget?
If people went back to cooking from scratch using good quality foods (and including meat, liver/organs in general, dairy products, eggs, fruits, carrots (+ starches) I do think it would be possible for more people to achieve good health.
But it also depends where you live.
Nordic countries have many months with low sun exposure.
Living in a country such as Norway it is basically impossible to get a hold of thyroid supplements (and many other supplements) unless you are actually "diagnosed" officially. So I am kind of forced to achieve optimum health without it.

I have been able to purchase Ray Peat's progest E twice though I suspect this has been pure luck as it has been labelled as beauty oil on the declaration..

I think eating well is achievable for many however reducing general stress in life, work situation, economy, every day life is challenging too.

I think metal health and well being is underrated. Stress is horrible, all the leading causes of death like heart attacks and cancer are all linked to chronic stress exposure. Focus more on fixing your mental state of health, your body will follow. Not saying ditch the supplements but don't rely on them so much... focus on being happy. It sounds like some hippy dippy BS but I believe it is true. Mental unrest and high neuroticism needs to be addressed more thoroughly, not enough people focus on this aspect of health. Healing an overactive nervous system, lowering overall stress levels, finding peace in yourself, being happy, these are really what heals. You can take a bunch of supplements but if you aren't actively addressing your mental state.... your body will always be in a stressed state, the flight or fight response will always be active... true healing can't take place.

You need to- meditate daily, take cold showers daily, exercise, achieve proper hormones, achieve good gut health by eating good healing foods, good thyroid health, practicing therapy exercises like CBT, EFT tapping to actively lower anxiety, breathing methods, herbal teas.... Find out what is causing unrest in your mind, and address it.... Address whatever issues you have mentally. You can't 100% get rid of your anxiety... you can't 100% get rid of stress, it is unrealistic. But imagine you can lower your anxiety levels by 50% by and your stress levels by 50% via the methods I listed above. Imagine the drastic increase in your health and well being.... The issue is that it isn't as simple as taking a supplement.... this is harder than eating a restrictive boring diet... you need to look within yourself and question yourself, and bring a drastic change in your way of thinking. This won't be easy... your anxious and stressed way of thinking has been engrained already into your being... to change this will be difficult but I believe it is doable. You need to achieve a state of balance, mentally and physically, there is only so much you can do to fix your body, you must give your mental state of being the same attention.

 

[mostlylurking]

I think metal health and well being is underrated. Stress is horrible, all the leading causes of death like heart attacks and cancer are all linked to chronic stress exposure. Focus more on fixing your mental state of health, your body will follow.

I think that it is helpful to understand that body stress is caused by the physical body not functioning optimally. If you are living with a high level of toxins, like heavy metals for example, that has done a number on your oxidative metabolism and is causing body stress, then trying to fix your mental state of health is pretty much impossible. Thinking happy thoughts, even if you spend 5 years in psychotherapy (did that) and have gotten your head screwed on properly, will not stop the circular thinking, clinical depression, and anxiety if your oxidative metabolism is not working and you are sick because of toxin load. It. Just. Won't.

Not saying ditch the supplements but don't rely on them so much... focus on being happy. It sounds like some hippy dippy BS but I believe it is true.

Environmental toxins (like heavy metals) cannot be resolved via thinking happy thoughts.

Mental unrest and high neuroticism needs to be addressed more thoroughly, not enough people focus on this aspect of health.

Well, I agree. But you cannot simply wish toxin load away by waving a magic wand and thinking happy thoughts.

You can take a bunch of supplements but if you aren't actively addressing your mental state.... your body will always be in a stressed state, the flight or fight response will always be active... true healing can't take place.

True physical healing cannot take place via mental gymnastics. There's a physical body in the equation. It needs more than psychotherapy and happy thoughts. It needs nutrients. It needs help to recover/overcome the toxin load that life has placed upon it.

Sorry, I disagree with you. I've been very physically sick for many years because of heavy metal poisoning. The 5 years of psychotherapy helped me understand that I am a good person and I value myself and my family of origin were dealing with their own cans of worms. But having a lucid rational state of mind and having self worth did NOT heal my body. It did NOT resolve the anxiety, brain fog, and inflammation caused by heavy metal poisoning. I have to take supplements in order to be healthy. The power of positive thinking does not resolve mercury poisoning.

 

[dervmai]

I believe the global environment, air and food quality has just become too bad for most of us and many of us had a problematic diet (high PUFA, refined foods, irritants), problematic environment and/or toxic treatments in our upbringing. The personal health history plays a big role in my opinion.

Living with the Amish would probably be a possibility. They mostly eat traditional unadulterated nutrient-dense foods, live according to nature‘s circadian rhythm, are not vaccinated, avoid most medications like birth control, antibiotics and so forth.

Yes I think this as well, it is just too difficult to avoid stress, I'd say impossible, even if you lived like the Amish, you will still experience stress and anxiety, yes much less so than living in say New York City, so I agree yes, supplementation may be necessary, but you need to figure out which are necessary and which aren't because the ones that aren't are probably causing issues you don't even realize.

I think that it is helpful to understand that body stress is caused by the physical body not functioning optimally. If you are living with a high level of toxins, like heavy metals for example, that has done a number on your oxidative metabolism and is causing body stress, then trying to fix your mental state of health is pretty much impossible. Thinking happy thoughts, even if you spend 5 years in psychotherapy (did that) and have gotten your head screwed on properly, will not stop the circular thinking, clinical depression, and anxiety if your oxidative metabolism is not working and you are sick because of toxin load. It. Just. Won't.

Environmental toxins (like heavy metals) cannot be resolved via thinking happy thoughts.

Well, I agree. But you cannot simply wish toxin load away by waving a magic wand and thinking happy thoughts.

True physical healing cannot take place via mental gymnastics. There's a physical body in the equation. It needs more than psychotherapy and happy thoughts. It needs nutrients. It needs help to recover/overcome the toxin load that life has placed upon it.

Sorry, I disagree with you. I've been very physically sick for many years because of heavy metal poisoning. The 5 years of psychotherapy helped me understand that I am a good person and I value myself and my family of origin were dealing with their own cans of worms. But having a lucid rational state of mind and having self worth did NOT heal my body. It did NOT resolve the anxiety, brain fog, and inflammation caused by heavy metal poisoning. I have to take supplements in order to be healthy. The power of positive thinking does not resolve mercury poisoning.

Yes I agree with you. This is why I'm not saying don't supplement. There is both mental and physical aspects to health. I just think too many people focus on the physical aspect of health and don't give their mental health the same attention. Cases like yours where your toxin overload is too high, yes thinking happy thoughts won't fix it. With cases like yours, I assume you plan on staying on high doses of b1 for life, and I don't think that that is a bad thing to do.

I like the idea of "Perceive, Think, Act". Each person is different, their bodies all have different needs, each person was exposed to different toxins throughout their lives, there will be differences in what one needs to supplement. I don't think going natural is the way either, not with how our world is today. I also don't think you need to take buckets of supplements. Finding which ones you need and which ones you don't is critical right? For you, you NEED high doses of b1, the root cause was as you mentioned heavy metal mercury poisoning, which has lifelong consequences. Hence the need to supplement is necessary. I found myself in a situation where I was trying supplement after supplement hoping it fixes things. I don't think that was right either. Half of the supplements, I had no need for.

I keep noticing people on this forum keep recommending different supplements. I think we all want a silver bullet that fixes all our issues via a supplement but it isn't always the case. For you b1 helped you tremendously. I can understand, I also have a b1 deficiency and I am feeling much better after starting to increase my b1 dose. However I was taking like high dose copper, trace minerals, TMG, cypro and a couple more. I was having gut issues. I dropped the trace minerals, and I feel a lot better. They were actually making me nauseas... I was taking high dose d3 for months before I realized I needed k2. I probably did more harm than good doing this. Especially since my gut is not in the best shape nor my liver right now... downing supplements might have been causing more issues than I realized.

Supplements have their place... I came to that conclusion in the first post of this thread. I think we need to actively put effort into taking out all that is unnecessary, and to shift more of the focus towards mental health and wellbeing. It takes experimentation and time. Don't just take supplements because somebody on this forum said it would do this and that and you never look back. Always be skeptical and experiment properly, taking your biomarkers into account always. I think this post was more of a reminder to myself if anything. Since I fell down the rabbit hole of supplements without proper education on them. I think many people who find this forum also fall down the same rabbit hole.

This post is less geared towards the veterans on this forum and more so towards the newer members who might come across this thread, who don't fully understand what they are doing when supplementing... supplementing has a different stigma than medication... however I'd argue they are very similar and should be viewed in that regard. I think in a state of vulnerability which one will find themselves in when they are in a bad state of health, they are easily convinced of this or that, hearing a supplement might do this or that, in that state of vulnerability, they might jump head first into the rabbit hole of supplements without taking the time to educate themselves.

 

[mostlylurking]

Since I fell down the rabbit hole of supplements without proper education on them. I think many people who find this forum also fall down the same rabbit hole.

I found raypeat.com fall of 2014 when I was undergoing EDTA IV chelation for lead poisoning by a physician who wasn't up on the importance of the patient's thiamine status. They're supposed to test for thiamine status before chelating a patient because if the patient is thiamine deficient, the chelation treatment can prove fatal. Lucky me, I just got rheumatiod arthritis. At that point in my life, I didn't trust ANY medical advice from ANYBODY.

So I spent the next 5 years reading Ray Peat articles and listening to Ray Peat audio shows. I made CD's and played them in my car and in my home. I totally immersed myself in Ray Peat. I printed out the Peat articles formatted in two columns because my eyes could not track across a full page of print. I made notes in the margins. I highlighted the important parts that included suggested supplements and amounts to take. I decided to trust Ray Peat because he made sense. I bought a few supplements: progesterone, pregnenolone, niacinamide, magnesium, thiamine, D3, K2, A; I paid attention to the amounts of the various supplements that Peat said were "safe". I followed Peat's suggestions about diet. I also found a good endocrinologist to help me get my thyroid medication optimized. I relied of Peat's thyroid articles for guidance. I got better.

Please note that I did NOT frequent this forum during those years, although I did join in 2015. I rarely checked in because I thought relying on info here to be iffy at best; it seemed to be a cacophony of conflicting ideas promoted by a multitude of unknown faceless strangers.

I think in a state of vulnerability which one will find themselves in when they are in a bad state of health, they are easily convinced of this or that, hearing a supplement might do this or that, in that state of vulnerability, they might jump head first into the rabbit hole of supplements without taking the time to educate themselves.

I think it is dangerous for vulnerable people to take advice from faceless nameless strangers on an internet forum. I think that people need to do their own research. I personally found Ray Peat's articles and audio shows to be life saving. People should read Ray Peat's work themselves and never rely on some stranger's interpretation of it.

These links are helpful:
search engine for Ray Peat's articles: PeatSearch: a Ray Peat-specific search engine - Toxinless Use the cell that excludes the forum.
search engine for Ray Peat's audio interviews: bioenergetic search Double click the copy paragraph to activate the audio. It helps clarify who is speaking.
a collection of Ray Peat interviews and articles: Ray Peat related sites directory (MarshmalloW)

It is important to read entire articles written by Ray Peat and not just snippets. Likewise, it's important to listen to entire interviews. These will help you enormously. I've read many Peat articles multiple times over. They always seem new because I notice new things in them.