Healing a damaged overactive nervous system. Just how changeable are we?

[dervmai]

So I have been struggling with anxiety for a very long time, as far back as I can remember, I was always anxious about things. I currently have diagnosed anxiety and have borderline personality disorder. My emotional stability is a mess and I struggle daily in life to function. Add trauma and health issues to the mix too, basically I'm a mess. Learning about Ray Peat and the bioenergetic view has helped with my health issues somewhat, although it is still a process and I still have a long way to go before I can consider myself "healthy".

Reading into Ray Peat and his works and ideas has led me on this quest for optimal health. Struggling with health issues and realizing the severity of my problems has fueled a quest that was once initially fueled by fear, which now still is fueled by fear, but not so much... I am now curious about health and the human body. The vicissitude nature of the human body intrigues and amazes me....and makes me realize just how much we still have yet to learn about ourselves. However.... there seems to be a genuine lack of medical advancement in the field of mental health. As a person who struggles daily with mental health.... this is depressing.

The lack of treatments and knowledge on mental health humbles our race... realizing just how much we don't know, and how blindly we still are trying to figure it all out. This is depressing yes, but since we are talking about how sh*&ty mental health issues are.... lets try to keep a positive and hopeful outlook on this. Yes there is still more to discover... so let's discover it. Sure we might not be pioneers in the medical field and yes we are a bunch of amateurs trying to figure this all out, and even if we don't understand it, trying to is always the first step.

My question is in regards to the nervous system, specifically an overactive nervous system. What could be causes of it and how can we take steps to reverse and fix it so that we might heal and find some peace in this life? Answers like meditation and yoga and cold showers are not what I'm looking for... although meditation does seem to help somewhat.... it is not enough for me. I believe we are malleable, that we are incredible technological organisms that can manifest changes we want. Nothing is set in stone.... cancer is curable... we haven't cure it yet... or maybe we have and our government won't tell us... and sure we might not be able to cheat death, and even if we could we probably won't want to.... however the point I'm trying to make is that health issues including mental issues can be "cured", and even if it can't I refuse to believe this... We might not know how to but the point is that we try to figure it out.

 

[HeyThere]

So I have been struggling with anxiety for a very long time, as far back as I can remember, I was always anxious about things. I currently have diagnosed anxiety and have borderline personality disorder. My emotional stability is a mess and I struggle daily in life to function. Add trauma and health issues to the mix too, basically I'm a mess. Learning about Ray Peat and the bioenergetic view has helped with my health issues somewhat, although it is still a process and I still have a long way to go before I can consider myself "healthy".

Reading into Ray Peat and his works and ideas has led me on this quest for optimal health. Struggling with health issues and realizing the severity of my problems has fueled a quest that was once initially fueled by fear, which now still is fueled by fear, but not so much... I am now curious about health and the human body. The vicissitude nature of the human body intrigues and amazes me....and makes me realize just how much we still have yet to learn about ourselves. However.... there seems to be a genuine lack of medical advancement in the field of mental health. As a person who struggles daily with mental health.... this is depressing.

The lack of treatments and knowledge on mental health humbles our race... realizing just how much we don't know, and how blindly we still are trying to figure it all out. This is depressing yes, but since we are talking about how sh*&ty mental health issues are.... lets try to keep a positive and hopeful outlook on this. Yes there is still more to discover... so let's discover it. Sure we might not be pioneers in the medical field and yes we are a bunch of amateurs trying to figure this all out, and even if we don't understand it, trying to is always the first step.

My question is in regards to the nervous system, specifically an overactive nervous system. What could be causes of it and how can we take steps to reverse and fix it so that we might heal and find some peace in this life? Answers like meditation and yoga and cold showers are not what I'm looking for... although meditation does seem to help somewhat.... it is not enough for me. I believe we are malleable, that we are incredible technological organisms that can manifest changes we want. Nothing is set in stone.... cancer is curable... we haven't cure it yet... or maybe we have and our government won't tell us... and sure we might not be able to cheat death, and even if we could we probably won't want to.... however the point I'm trying to make is that health issues including mental issues can be "cured", and even if it can't I refuse to believe this... We might not know how to but the point is that we try to figure it out.

In the same boat. I took a break but now back on taking magnesium and B6, B1, B12, and all the vitamins and minerals to strengthen the nervous system.

Imperative.

 

[ChadGPT]

I have the same problem and getting enough protein everyday has helped a lot. And we probably haven’t made much progress in the way of mental health because the approach is all wrong…viewing the mind and body as separate compartmentalized entities. The end goal is also all wrong. It is not to create optimal humans, they just want to drug us so we stop thinking about our problems and can function as mindless drone slaves. Whatever keeps the system propped up another day. There’s not enough appreciation for the individual.

 

[Jonk]

I've also struggled with anxiety for a long time, and as the previous poster mentioned, I would imagine mental and physical health is intrinsically linked. I don't remember where I read it but Ray Peat has said something along the lines of that the act of improving ones health is in itself healing. I have also recently become interested in Christian Orthodoxy (haven't been to a church yet) but one small thing that helps me is asking God for help for both small and big things in life. Even if you don't believe in God or spirituality I think the mindset can be very helpful. With anxiety I feel like it's at least for me the inability to let things play out how they will, like playing scenarios in my head of things that can go wrong, and what will happen when it goes wrong etc. This of course goes hand in hand with improving my health but If I'm only doing it by way of diet and supplements I easily get neurotic about that too. An example would be if I feel anxious before a meeting, or feeling like I'm about to do something I know to be wrong, watching porn for example, I try to say to myself - "I can't do this by myself, please help me God". Sounds silly maybe but for me it works. Not saying it's a magic pill and that God is going to fix all my problems, but viewing it more as a mindset of letting go of control points me more in the right direction than not.

Edit: Also lots and lots of carbs helps me. Currently eating fairly low protein maybe 50g a day and low fat maybe 15% of total calories. Eliminating the worst offending foods and working on digestion. Niacinamide and b-vitamins in general can also be very good but needs to have a good diet to back it up.

 

[mostlylurking]

So I have been struggling with anxiety for a very long time, as far back as I can remember, I was always anxious about things. I currently have diagnosed anxiety and have borderline personality disorder. My emotional stability is a mess and I struggle daily in life to function. Add trauma and health issues to the mix too, basically I'm a mess.

I've been there!! I know exactly what you are describing. Don't you just love the way the medical industrial complex looks at your symptoms, organizes the key words a little bit and adds the word "disorder" and voila! There's your diagnosis. And then they charge you lots of money. OMG I'm so sick of this BS.

You're sighted in on the right direction, I see, by the title of this thread. "Healing a damaged overactive nervous system." So you're off to a good start.

Anyhow, I'd like to provide a little insight and maybe ask a few questions:

Anxiety and an "overactive nervous system" are related. These are symptoms of dysautonomia which is the dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system. Thiamine is key; a deficiency in this vitamin (thiamine = B1) and/or a functional blockage of thiamine will derail the autonomic nervous system.
Here is an excellent (in depth) article for your consideration:

Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency

Thiamine or vitamin B1 is an essential, water-soluble vitamin required for mitochondrial energetics—the production of adenosine triphosphate (ATP). It is a critical and rate-limiting cofactor to multiple enzymes involved in this process, including ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This article was written by Dr. Chandler Marrs and Dr. Derrick Lonsdale.
Here's a short article by Dr. Lonsdale:

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Here's another one by Dr. Lonsdale:

Depression, Anxiety, and the Chronically Hypoxic Brain - Hormones Matter

Abnormal thoughts, emotions and all forms of mental activity are produced by electrochemical reactions that are exaggerated by a mild degree of hypoxia or pseudo-hypoxia.

www.hormonesmatter.com

It will help a whole lot if you take the time to sleuth around to learn why there is a problem with thiamine because with that knowledge, you will be better able to correct the problem. There are lots of ways to get into trouble with thiamine. Many pharmaceutical drugs block it. The oxidative stress caused by heavy metal toxicity use it up and cause deficiency. Eating a high carb/sugar diet overwhelm the body's supply of thiamine and cause a deficiency.

questions:
Do you know if you have been exposed to any heavy metals? Do you have any silver amalgam fillings in your mouth? Have you ever had any silver amalgam fillings? Do you drink coffee? Black tea? How's your digestive tract? Can you think back and remember a time when you did not have this problem?

Here's a video with Dr. Chandler Marrs:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1SSKBZp8D8

 

[laoa]

Maybe proper inhibition and consequent rest of cells is key in anxiety too? Gaba-ergic drugs seem to help and gaba does exactly that. Maybe it's possible and helpful to break the permanent overexcitation-state of the cells with things like adamantane, cyproheptadine, progesteron, lidocain or other -cains, anything that basicly forces the cells to relax and consequently regenerate and repair if there is adequate energy provided. Ray talks about this need of the cells to fully relax/repolarise in one of his books (mind and tissue or generative energy i think).

 

[charlie]

Could be from copper or other heavy metal toxicity.

 

[TheSir]

Could be from copper or other heavy metal toxicity.

This is very likely at least part of the root cause, as the presence of heavy metals stimulates the nervous system through various means. The other side of heavy metal toxicity is corresponding mineral deficiencies and functional blocks, as was written above. I would recommend getting a hair test from ARL or TEI and having a HTMA practitioner check it for obvious & hidden signs of toxicity. Once you know what you're dealing with, you will be able to choose a suitable aporoach.

 

[charlie]

The other side of heavy metal toxicity is corresponding mineral deficiencies and functional blocks, as was written above.

Exactly. Magnesium, potassium, zinc, molybdenum and selenium is where its at. Get those right and restoration from toxic metal hell is on the way.

 

[mostlylurking]

Maybe proper inhibition and consequent rest of cells is key in anxiety too?

Quenching the oxidative stress is key. Further "inhibition" and "resting of cells" would go in the wrong direction. The fire needs to be quenched, not the tools the cells use to quench the fire. The main tool required is functioning oxidative metabolism. Thyroid and thiamine are key.

Could be from copper or other heavy metal toxicity.

This is very likely at least part of the root cause, as the presence of heavy metals stimulates the nervous system through various means.

It's not that the heavy metals stimulate the nervous system; it's more like they make it go whacko by depleting thiamine which is required by the autonomic nervous system to operate like it's supposed to.

Heavy metals, notably lead and mercury, are known to use up thiamine in multiple ways. The heavy metals cause oxidative stress; thiamine quenches free radicals and thereby gets depleted. Ditto for Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids causing oxidative stress and thiamine quenching the free radicals and getting depleted.

Cell damage through pentose phosphate pathway in fetus fibroblast cells exposed to methyl mercury - PubMed

Methylmercury (MeHg) is a global pollutant that causes malformations. There has been no direct evidence for the effect of MeHg on pentose phosphate pathway (PPP). In embryonic development, PPP is much more active. This pathway produces ribose for DNA/RNA production. It is possible that one of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Methylmercury (MeHg) is a global pollutant that causes malformations. There has been no direct evidence for the effect of MeHg on pentose phosphate pathway (PPP). In embryonic development, PPP is much more active. This pathway produces ribose for DNA/RNA production. It is possible that one of teratogenicity mechanisms of MeHg is through PPP. The fetus fibroblast cells were incubated with different concentrations of MeHg (0.1-100 μm). A dose-response dependence was observed in MTT assay. Transketolase activity and DNA content were determined in cell exposed to MeHg. A defect at the level of DNA content was observed. This amount of DNA was highly correlated with transketolase activity (r = 0.76). This study has demonstrated that the potential teratogenic action of MeHg is through PPP. To assess the protective effects of thiamin, the infected cells were incubated with different concentrations of thiamin. The obtained results show that thiamin pyrophosphate supplementation correlated with the toxicity. This finding confirms that thiamin therapy is suitable for the prevention of MeHg toxicity. Our study provides basic data for prevention and treatment of MeHg toxicity via boosting PPP."

Effect of thiamine hydrochloride on lead induced lipid peroxidation in rat liver and kidney - PubMed

Thiamine hydrochloride was studied on lead-induced endogenous lipid peroxidation in rat hepatic and renal tissues following po doses of 2.73 mg lead/kg bw for 6 w. Simultaneous use of 25 mg thiamine hydrochloride/kg bw po reduced lead accumulation in liver and kidneys. There were significant...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Thiamine hydrochloride was studied on lead-induced endogenous lipid peroxidation in rat hepatic and renal tissues following po doses of 2.73 mg lead/kg bw for 6 w. Simultaneous use of 25 mg thiamine hydrochloride/kg bw po reduced lead accumulation in liver and kidneys. There were significant decreases in endogenous lipid peroxide in liver and kidney from thiamine hydrochloride-treated rats. Histopathological lesions in thiamine-treated livers and kidneys were milder in comparison to lesions in untreated Pb-exposed animals. This indicates the prophylactic potential of thiamine for lead-induced lipid peroxidation."

Changes in thiamine concentrations, fatty acid composition, and some other lipid-related biochemical indices in Baltic Sea Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar) during the spawning run and pre-spawning fasting - Helgoland Marine Research

Salmonines in the Baltic Sea and North American lakes suffer from thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency, which is connected to an abundant lipid-rich diet containing substantial amounts of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs). In the Baltic region, this is known as the M74 syndrome. It affects both...

hmr.biomedcentral.com

"Changes in concentrations of thiamine and its components in muscle, ovaries, and the liver and other biochemical indices potentially relating to lipid and fatty acid metabolism were investigated. The results provide further evidence of the role of peroxidation of PUFAs in eliciting thiamine deficiency in salmon...."

 

[Deadpool]

This is very likely at least part of the root cause, as the presence of heavy metals stimulates the nervous system through various means. The other side of heavy metal toxicity is corresponding mineral deficiencies and functional blocks, as was written above. I would recommend getting a hair test from ARL or TEI and having a HTMA practitioner check it for obvious & hidden signs of toxicity. Once you know what you're dealing with, you will be able to choose a suitable aporoach.

What do you say about people with very low copper in blood and very low ceruloplasmin. I have been to most practitioners who deal with mineral balancing, methylation and stuff, was diagnosed with pyroluria and overmethylation and they all say I am copper toxic, however the treatments all make me worse and my blood copper is still super low with low ceruloplasmin. I want to believe the copper is all stuck in my tissues but treatment doesn’t make me better at all and feels like it just worsens functional deficiency.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have found incredible neuroplasticity and anything like this can be rewired. Look up Open Focus or Dissolving Pain (or both) by Les Fehme. Dr. Fehme was an incredible researcher and his books show you exactly how to get rid of anxiety and rewire your brain.

 

[TheSir]

What do you say about people with very low copper in blood and very low ceruloplasmin. I have been to most practitioners who deal with mineral balancing, methylation and stuff, was diagnosed with pyroluria and overmethylation and they all say I am copper toxic, however the treatments all make me worse and my blood copper is still super low with low ceruloplasmin. I want to believe the copper is all stuck in my tissues but treatment doesn’t make me better at all and feels like it just worsens functional deficiency.

Ar least, it's possible (and common) to be toxic with biounavailable copper and deficient in bioavailable copper at the same time. What does your treatment include and how does it make you feel worse? Are you following Wilson's program?

 

[mamaglee]

So I have been struggling with anxiety for a very long time, as far back as I can remember, I was always anxious about things. I currently have diagnosed anxiety and have borderline personality disorder. My emotional stability is a mess and I struggle daily in life to function. Add trauma and health issues to the mix too, basically I'm a mess. Learning about Ray Peat and the bioenergetic view has helped with my health issues somewhat, although it is still a process and I still have a long way to go before I can consider myself "healthy".

Reading into Ray Peat and his works and ideas has led me on this quest for optimal health. Struggling with health issues and realizing the severity of my problems has fueled a quest that was once initially fueled by fear, which now still is fueled by fear, but not so much... I am now curious about health and the human body. The vicissitude nature of the human body intrigues and amazes me....and makes me realize just how much we still have yet to learn about ourselves. However.... there seems to be a genuine lack of medical advancement in the field of mental health. As a person who struggles daily with mental health.... this is depressing.

The lack of treatments and knowledge on mental health humbles our race... realizing just how much we don't know, and how blindly we still are trying to figure it all out. This is depressing yes, but since we are talking about how sh*&ty mental health issues are.... lets try to keep a positive and hopeful outlook on this. Yes there is still more to discover... so let's discover it. Sure we might not be pioneers in the medical field and yes we are a bunch of amateurs trying to figure this all out, and even if we don't understand it, trying to is always the first step.

My question is in regards to the nervous system, specifically an overactive nervous system. What could be causes of it and how can we take steps to reverse and fix it so that we might heal and find some peace in this life? Answers like meditation and yoga and cold showers are not what I'm looking for... although meditation does seem to help somewhat.... it is not enough for me. I believe we are malleable, that we are incredible technological organisms that can manifest changes we want. Nothing is set in stone.... cancer is curable... we haven't cure it yet... or maybe we have and our government won't tell us... and sure we might not be able to cheat death, and even if we could we probably won't want to.... however the point I'm trying to make is that health issues including mental issues can be "cured", and even if it can't I refuse to believe this... We might not know how to but the point is that we try to figure it out.

I've had intense mental health issues at times, and right now I am more regulated. By intense I mean anxiety and depression so bad that I couldn't function, had suicidal ideation, occasionally went on a course of pharma meds for a short time, etc. Now I practice somatic exercises, parts works and also work on biology. That has enabled me to be more regulated, find moments in parasympathetic, enjoy life, stay off psyche meds (benzos were my drug of choice but I also knew that using them for longer than 3 months could have serious brain effects like > alzheimer's risk by a large %). I also am now a mentor in a program with Dr. Aimie Apigian which studies the Biology of Trauma, with courses on attachment and neurodevelopment, stress hormones, heart shocks & grief. It's a process but I'm so glad I've found tools. Yoga and meditation, EFT tapping, chanting, etc. are all great tools, but didn't do it for me alone. I still have a long way to go, but I can be present to my sensations and live my life with more ease after spending over 65+ years DISSOCIATED. Good luck finding your way.

 

[mostlylurking]

I've had intense mental health issues at times, and right now I am more regulated. By intense I mean anxiety and depression so bad that I couldn't function, had suicidal ideation, occasionally went on a course of pharma meds for a short time, etc. Now I practice somatic exercises, parts works and also work on biology. That has enabled me to be more regulated, find moments in parasympathetic, enjoy life, stay off psyche meds (benzos were my drug of choice but I also knew that using them for longer than 3 months could have serious brain effects like > alzheimer's risk by a large %). I also am now a mentor in a program with Dr. Aimie Apigian which studies the Biology of Trauma, with courses on attachment and neurodevelopment, stress hormones, heart shocks & grief. It's a process but I'm so glad I've found tools. Yoga and meditation, EFT tapping, chanting, etc. are all great tools, but didn't do it for me alone. I still have a long way to go, but I can be present to my sensations and live my life with more ease after spending over 65+ years DISSOCIATED. Good luck finding your way.

@derv & @mamaglee: suggested reading:

Thiamine (Vitamin B1) For Anxiety: A Miracle Anti-Stress Nutrient? - Shut Up Mind!

Learn how thiamine (a.k.a vitamin B1) can help you get rid of your anxiety and depression!

shutupmind.com

 

[Bounce]

What @ecstatichamster mention is absolutly great. The Open focus brain is an incredible book from les fehmi.

But if you want to dive deep i recommend the book "widen the window" from Elizabeth Stanley.

I personally(!) would give the advice to not drive on the "supplement road". It's a never ending street. Everybody will give you a different advice and you will get blind for the real healing = your nervous system.

If you leave fight or flight or freeze, you will have different hormonal reactions.

 

[bookshelf]

Does anyone find that this reveals a spiritual battle (either exclusively or in tandem)? @Jonk, I noticed you mentioned Orthodoxy. Did you find spending time at church or investing in your faith helped you?

I find it to be a double edged sword. On one had, I rely heavily on my faith. OTOH, I feel as though my faith is tested when I am overcome by an overactive nervous system and I feel as though God is terribly distant.

I guess in sum, how much is spiritual and how much is physiological? I'd imagine, like all things, it's a little of both.

 

[Jonk]

Does anyone find that this reveals a spiritual battle (either exclusively or in tandem)? @Jonk, I noticed you mentioned Orthodoxy. Did you find spending time at church or investing in your faith helped you?

I find it to be a double edged sword. On one had, I rely heavily on my faith. OTOH, I feel as though my faith is tested when I am overcome by an overactive nervous system and I feel as though God is terribly distant.

I guess in sum, how much is spiritual and how much is physiological? I'd imagine, like all things, it's a little of both.

I'm only inquiring Orthodoxy so I can't give any answers backed up from anything more than my own experience. But I think life is a spiritual struggle. The spiritual isn't separate from physical and physical struggling i would assume gives one an opportunity to be virtuos. Ultimately the goal of life isn't to be healthy, it's to become more like Christ. That isn't to say we shouldn't strive to be healthy though. I think I read somewhere on the forum someone healing from health issues by dedicating herself to helping others (I don't remember in what context) - stuff like that, that takes oneself outside of a "me centric" mindset I think is spiritually and potentially physically healing.

 

[bookshelf]

I'm only inquiring Orthodoxy so I can't give any answers backed up from anything more than my own experience. But I think life is a spiritual struggle. The spiritual isn't separate from physical and physical struggling i would assume gives one an opportunity to be virtuos. Ultimately the goal of life isn't to be healthy, it's to become more like Christ. That isn't to say we shouldn't strive to be healthy though. I think I read somewhere on the forum someone healing from health issues by dedicating herself to helping others (I don't remember in what context) - stuff like that, that takes oneself outside of a "me centric" mindset I think is spiritually and potentially physically healing.

A lot of wisdom in that response. Thank you, Jonk.

 

[Jonk]

A lot of wisdom in that response. Thank you, Jonk.

Thank you, and I relate to what you're saying about faith. It's not easy.