B1, Cannabis, cigarettes and workouts cause brain inflammation, LSD reverses it - I want your opinion

[Peater]

Between 10mcg to 15mcg, more than 15mcg makes me very jittery the same day and dizzy the next one.



I've been thinking about it lately because I sometimes had the exact opposite reactions with doses higher than 1000mg. I'd like Hans opinion on that too.

I have a Dr Clarke B1 supplement I found. It is expensive, but pure gelatine capsules with no fillers. I just took the lid off to check and it smells fine, even quite nice, in a plain sort of way. Just something to consider if you're not sure about the quality of the existing supplement.

 

[Ahmed ELH]

Very interesting.

Haidut has an interesting post on this:

Exercise + Fasting Is Stress, Causes Obesity And IR, And Requires Cortisol Blockade To Reverse

I think this thread will ring true for all people who at some in their lives exercised in order to lose weight. Just like fasting, it works great in younger age (

raypeatforum.com

I have just finished reading the post, It's in fact very interesting.

I'll give DHEA a try, pregnenolone did nothing either at a low or high dose, what do you feel when taking it?

By the way, have you tried L-Theanine? I tried 200mg last week at a friend's house and after 30 minutes I felt so good, all high cortisol / high acetylcholine symptoms disappeared for the rest of the day.

 

[Ahmed ELH]

I have a Dr Clarke B1 supplement I found. It is expensive, but pure gelatine capsules with no fillers. I just took the lid off to check and it smells fine, even quite nice, in a plain sort of way. Just something to consider if you're not sure about the quality of the existing supplement.

Thanks for the tips, I tried it and it actually smells quite fine honestly. I've been using the same brand for two years straight, the side effects started right after the 3 day fast unfortunately.

 

[youngsinatra]

I have just finished reading the post, It's in fact very interesting.

I'll give DHEA a try, pregnenolone did nothing either at a low or high dose, what do you feel when taking it?

By the way, have you tried L-Theanine? I tried 200mg last week at a friend's house and after 30 minutes I felt so good, all high cortisol / high acetylcholine symptoms disappeared for the rest of the day.

I used to take L theanine with coffee back in the keto days. I might try it out again!

I felt kinda off from 50-100mg of pregnenolone, but I have been taking 300mg/day for a week now and feel pretty good so far!

Inspired by this thread:

High dose pregnenolone

here for some pregnenolone conversation. I’ve posted a handful of times on my situation here and gotten plenty of what would seem to be good help. But what has fixed me big time and FAST is high dose pregnenolone. Quick background. I’m 25 year old male physically look healthy 6’3 215 lean...

raypeatforum.com

 

[youngsinatra]

Btw, I just remembered one guy I chatted with from Eliott’s facebook group that said that he depleted his vitamin B5 stores with high dose B1 and had paradoxically anticholinergic effects from B1 — like brain fog, low stomach acid, worsened gastroparesis, gallbladder problems, dry mouth and eyes.

Other said they depleted their riboflavin with high amounts of B1 over time. Have you considered that you might have created a bottleneck with high doses of B1 or B3?

Pyruvate dehydrogenase for example also requires B2 and B5 besides B1 and B3.

Just thinking out loud :)

 

[mostlylurking]

Now that I'm thinking about it, I have literally abused Thiamin, Niacin and Zinc almost every day during the last year, it may explains why my body struggle so much with acetylcholine.

Zinc blocks copper? I think yes. I remember this from Peat talking about why he believed that relying on shellfish (shrimp, oysters, etc) is a good way to go to get your minerals.

Zinc Toxicity - Nutritional Disorders - Merck Manuals Professional Edition

Zinc Toxicity and Nutritional Disorders - Learn about from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

That said, I started supplementing 200mcg of selenium several months ago and both my doctors remarked about how much healthier I've gotten (based on review of my blood tests). It's a subtle thing; I don't feel a lot different.

This year I experimented with thyroid a lot and when I tried taking only levothyroxine, my free T4 elevated but my free T3 even dropped lower than my natural production, so I think I just converted all that T4 into reverse T3 and made me even more hypometabolic. I respond favorably to T3 but I currently try to drastically lower my cortisol with high dose pregnenolone, magnesium, high carb diet, eating solid meals every 4-5 hours, herbal teas, relaxation methods etc because my thyroid is functioning correctly, but high cortisol impairs it.

Consider that seleninium is needed to convert T4 to T3 via the diodinases:

Deiodinases and the Three Types of Thyroid Hormone Deiodination Reactions

Thyroid hormone (TH) signaling is strictly regulated by iodothyronine deiodinase activity, which both preserves the circulating levels of the biologically active triiodothyronine (T3) and regulates TH homeostasis at the local level, in a cell- and time-dependent ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-paste-
Thyroid hormone (TH) deiodinases play a pivotal role in the functional diversification of TH signaling. They are involved in development, growth, and metabolic processes, and act in a cell-specific manner in the fine regulation of TH homeostasis. TH deiodinases catalyze activation and inactivation of THs through the removal of one iodine atom in the outer or inner ring of the TH molecule. They are expressed in virtually all organs and tissues, and a deiodinase is usually the initial or final actor in the fate of TH inside the cell. The major circulating TH is thyroxine (T4), whose synthesis is limited to the thyroid gland. T4 is considered a pro-hormone, which, at the local level, is regulated by tissue-specific ways by transformation into activated (triiodothyronine [T3]) or inactivated (reverse-T3 [rT3]) metabolites.

A critical molecule in counteracting intracellular OxS (Oxidative Stress) is selenium, an essential trace element that is a component of selenoproteins, which have antioxidant properties [75]. Selenium plays a crucial role in TH metabolism due to its location in the catalytic site of the three deiodinases [76]. Since the thyroid gland, with its capacity to store selenium, maintains a high concentration of this element, it is not easy to evaluate the immediate benefits of dietary selenium supplementation on selenium-containing enzymes [77]. Nonetheless, clinical data suggest that selenium deficiency is associated with an increased risk of a high anti-thyroid antibody titer, whereas selenium supplementation decreases thyroid peroxidase antibody titer, which could allow routine selenium supplementation as an additive tool to permit a reduction in the levothyroxine dose required for hypothyroidism therapy or to prevent progression of subclinical hypothyroidism [78–80].
-end paste-
also:

Selenium and thyroid autoimmunity

The trace element selenium (Se) occurs in the form of the amino acid selenocysteine in selenoproteins. Selenoproteins exerts multiple physiological effects in human health, many of which are related with regulation of reduction-oxidation processes. In ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-paste-
The trace element selenium (Se) occurs in the form of the amino acid selenocysteine in selenoproteins. Selenoproteins exerts multiple physiological effects in human health, many of which are related with regulation of reduction-oxidation processes. In fact, the selenoenzyme families of glutathione peroxidase (GPx) and thioredoxin reductase (TRx) display the ability to act as antioxidants, protecting cells from oxidative damage. Furthermore, another class of selenoproteins are the iodothyronine deiodinase enzymes (DIO), which catalyze the conversion of thyroxine (T4) in triiodothyronine (T3), then exerting a fine tuned control on thyroid hormones metabolism. Several studies have investigated the potential positive effects of Se supplementation in thyroid diseases, characterized by increased levels of hydrogen peroxide and free radicals, like autoimmune chronic thyroiditis. These studies have supplied evidences indicating that Se supplementation, maximizing the antioxidant enzymes activity, may reduce the thyroid inflammatory status. Then, it may be postulated that Se could play a therapeutical role in thyroid autoimmune diseases. Despite the fact that recent studies seem to be concordant about Se beneficial effects in decreasing thyroid peroxidase antibodies (TPOAb) titers and ameliorating the ultrasound echogenicity pattern, several doubts have to be still clarified, before advising Se supplementation in chronic autoimmune thyroiditis.

 

[Ahmed ELH]

Have you considered that you might have created a bottleneck with high doses of B1 or B3?

Yes, I did for a long time, I always took B1 and B3 with all the necessary co-factors. I actually have high levels of B6, B9 and B12.

Regarding B2, I took a Boron supplement with 50mg of Riboflavin consistantly for the last year, and I never showed B2 deficiency symptoms.

I have mixed feelings about B5, B1 makes me hyperfocused, way too much, I'll be able to see details of things in a psychedelic manner. I'll produce too much saliva and tears.

At the same time, the fact that B5 is involved in cortisol regulation and tolerance to external stress makes me wonder if it has been depleted from too much use.

Actually, the only B vitamin that makes me feel good overall is B2 and B3. B6 produces instant neuropathy, my blood levels of B9 and B12 are very high, when I'm supplementing with B9/B12 I feel that I need two times the amount of B3 to feel an effect from it.

 

[mostlylurking]

This year I experimented with thyroid a lot and when I tried taking only levothyroxine, my free T4 elevated but my free T3 even dropped lower than my natural production, so I think I just converted all that T4 into reverse T3 and made me even more hypometabolic. I respond favorably to T3 but I currently try to drastically lower my cortisol with high dose pregnenolone, magnesium, high carb diet, eating solid meals every 4-5 hours, herbal teas, relaxation methods etc because my thyroid is functioning correctly, but high cortisol impairs it.

Another article for your consideration:

Thyroid function in patients with selenium deficiency exhibits high free T4 to T3 ratio

Selenium, one of the essential trace minerals, is present in vivo in form of selenoproteins. Iodothyronine deiodinase, a selenoprotein, is involved in the activation and inactivation of thyroid hormone. Therefore, patients with selenium deficiency may ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Selenium, one of the essential trace minerals, is present in vivo inform of selenoproteins. Iodothyronine deiodinase, a selenoprotein, is involved in theactivation and inactivation of thyroid hormone. Therefore, patients with seleniumdeficiency may present changes in thyroid hormone levels due to inhibition of T4 to T3conversion; however, this assumption is still under debate. In the present study, weretrospectively investigated the thyroid function in 22 patients with selenium deficiency.Thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) and free T4 (FT4) levels were increased in 3 (14%) and 5(23%) patients, respectively, and free T3 (FT3) levels were decreased in 6 (27%) patients.The FT4/FT3 ratio was significantly higher in patients with selenium deficiency than thatin the control group. There appeared to be a positive correlation between the decreasedrate of selenium levels and FT4/FT3 ratio, thereby indicating that patients with severeselenium deficiency also exhibited abnormal thyroid hormone levels. Furthermore, whenselenium was supplemented in seven patients with abnormal thyroid hormone levels, the TSH,FT4, and FT4/FT3 ratio were significantly decreased and FT3 levels were increased.Collectively, patients with selenium deficiency could present the characteristics of notonly low FT3 but also high FT4 and FT4/FT3 ratio."

 

[Ahmed ELH]

Zinc blocks copper? I think yes. I remember this from Peat talking about why he believed that relying on shellfish (shrimp, oysters, etc) is a good way to go to get your minerals.

Zinc Toxicity - Nutritional Disorders - Merck Manuals Professional Edition

Zinc Toxicity and Nutritional Disorders - Learn about from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.

www.merckmanuals.com

That said, I started supplementing 200mcg of selenium several months ago and both my doctors remarked about how much healthier I've gotten (based on review of my blood tests). It's a subtle thing; I don't feel a lot different.

I was waiting for your answer to be around vitamin B1 haha.

My thyroid test panel was worse a few months ago. It improved very fast with 200mcg of selenium a day. I felt the difference. I've always been sensitive to cold, especially in the extremities, my body temperature and tolerance to cold raised in a few weeks of selenium supplementation.

During the time I was thinking that it was MCAS, I increased my copper intake through white button mushrooms, and vitamin C with Orange Juice to improve DAO enzyme, but since MCAS wasn't the real problem, I didn't feel any difference.

The only supplements I take actually are B3, D3, Magnesium, Forskolin. I do my best to get all the others nutrients from food source.

 

[youngsinatra]

Yes, I did for a long time, I always took B1 and B3 with all the necessary co-factors. I actually have high levels of B6, B9 and B12.

Regarding B2, I took a Boron supplement with 50mg of Riboflavin consistantly for the last year, and I never showed B2 deficiency symptoms.

I have mixed feelings about B5, B1 makes me hyperfocused, way too much, I'll be able to see details of things in a psychedelic manner. I'll produce too much saliva and tears.

At the same time, the fact that B5 is involved in cortisol regulation and tolerance to external stress makes me wonder if it has been depleted from too much use.

Actually, the only B vitamin that makes me feel good overall is B2 and B3. B6 produces instant neuropathy, my blood levels of B9 and B12 are very high, when I'm supplementing with B9/B12 I feel that I need two times the amount of B3 to feel an effect from it.

Very interesting. I am in a similar situation. I also had very high serum B6 and serum high B12 in the past. And I get immediate toxicity symptoms from small amounts of P5P. Dr. Greg Russel-Jones (www.b12oils.com) thinks it's due to functional B2 deficiency. (lack of active FAD/FMN)

 

[mostlylurking]

I was waiting for your answer to be around vitamin B1 haha.

Well, yeah, that's been a major part of my recovery. So I tend to go there first.

My thyroid test panel was worse a few months ago. It improved very fast with 200mcg of selenium a day. I felt the difference. I've always been sensitive to cold, especially in the extremities, my body temperature and tolerance to cold raised in a few weeks of selenium supplementation.

My main problem for a very very long time has been due to mercury poisoning. Mercury gloms onto selenium and inactivates/destroys it and it's possible that part of my problem has been with selenium deficiency because of the mercury. I need to get my selenium levels tested so I know better what my status is now and going forward. For all I know, I may need to take more selenium for a little while (and some N-acetylcysteine).

Here's an article about mercury and selenium:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320794400_Severe_elemental_mercury_poisoning_managed_with_selenium_and_N-acetylcysteine_administration

 

[Ahmed ELH]

Very interesting. I am in a similar situation. I also had very high serum B6 and serum high B12 in the past. And I get immediate toxicity symptoms from small amounts of P5P. Dr. Greg Russel-Jones (www.b12oils.com) thinks it's due to functional B2 deficiency. (lack of active FAD/FMN)

I'm sure you've been hit with the awful P5P nightmares.
I have just checked Greg Russel-Jones and his work is quite interesting.

Well, yeah, that's been a major part of my recovery. So I tend to go there first.

My main problem for a very very long time has been due to mercury poisoning. Mercury gloms onto selenium and inactivates/destroys it and it's possible that part of my problem has been with selenium deficiency because of the mercury. I need to get my selenium levels tested so I know better what my status is now and going forward. For all I know, I may need to take more selenium for a little while (and some N-acetylcysteine).

Here's an article about mercury and selenium:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320794400_Severe_elemental_mercury_poisoning_managed_with_selenium_and_N-acetylcysteine_administration

Honestly, I feel like both Selenium and B2 are correlated.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but T3 is necessary for the production of Riboflavin Kinase right. which turns to FMN.

Is having high T4 a desperate way for the body to have as much T3 as possible to increase FAD/FMN, that is being bottlenecked by Selenium deficiency?

I've noticed better absorption of B2 after starting Selenium, I used to have the famous fluorescent yellow pee from even low doses of B2, which is not the case anymore after Selenium supplementation.

Can this T4/T3 pathway somehow steals Tyrosine from the dopamine pathway?

Those are just my hypothesis.

 

[youngsinatra]

I'm sure you've been hit with the awful P5P nightmares.
I have just checked Greg Russel-Jones and his work is quite interesting.

Yes, his biochemical work and his theoretical framework is quite fascinating, but I believe his actionable protocol is very incomplete and unable to achieve the desired outcomes. He believes if you are low thyroid, you are simply deficient in iodine, selenium or iron. He doesn't address other causes like chronic stress, high cortisol, reverse T3 at all.

I personally think high cortisol is the main driver of (subclinical) thyroid issues as most diseases start after a stressful period in life or trauma (or whatever)

 

[mostlylurking]

I've noticed better absorption of B2 after starting Selenium, I used to have the famous fluorescent yellow pee from even low doses of B2, which is not the case anymore after Selenium supplementation.

I noticed that too. But I didn't understand what had changed. It's the selenium!

 

[mostlylurking]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but T3 is necessary for the production of Riboflavin Kinase right. which turns to FMN.

I don't know. But I'm hypothyroid and get my thyroid supplement via a good endocrinologist. All these things seem to be interrelated.

Is having high T4 a desperate way for the body to have as much T3 as possible to increase FAD/FMN, that is being bottlenecked by Selenium deficiency?

If there's a selenium deficiency, there would be a problem with deiodinases (DIO 1& DIO2) and possibly DIO3 too. I suspect that if there's a problem with conversion, the body would crank out more T4 to try to get what it needs (T3).

Can this T4/T3 pathway somehow steals Tyrosine from the dopamine pathway?

I doubt it. Here's an article where Tyrosine is mentioned twice:

A complete pathway map of T4 and T3 metabolism and clearance

Biochemical pathway maps are an important aspect of medical education and medical problem-solving. They help us to view a network or series of chemical reactions in cells. In this article, I presen…

thyroidpatients.ca

"3-T1 hormone is the final metabolite of T3. It has no known effects, and may simply be an intermediate step of iodide removal before it becomes T0 (Tyrosine), the basic amino acid, which is a building block for many proteins in the body."
and
"It (the visual model provided) does not normally reveal all that happens to metabolites further downstream. Each metabolite is subject to subsequent metabolism, until all that remains are free iodide and tyrosine molecules."

 

[Ahmed ELH]

I personally think high cortisol is the main driver of (subclinical) thyroid issues as most diseases start after a stressful period in life or trauma (or whatever)

Absolutely, I noticed the same thing regarding people struggling with chronic illness.

I don't know. But I'm hypothyroid and get my thyroid supplement via a good endocrinologist. All these things seem to be interrelated.

If there's a selenium deficiency, there would be a problem with deiodinases (DIO 1& DIO2) and possibly DIO3 too. I suspect that if there's a problem with conversion, the body would crank out more T4 to try to get what it needs (T3).

I doubt it. Here's an article where Tyrosine is mentioned twice:

A complete pathway map of T4 and T3 metabolism and clearance

Biochemical pathway maps are an important aspect of medical education and medical problem-solving. They help us to view a network or series of chemical reactions in cells. In this article, I presen…

thyroidpatients.ca

"3-T1 hormone is the final metabolite of T3. It has no known effects, and may simply be an intermediate step of iodide removal before it becomes T0 (Tyrosine), the basic amino acid, which is a building block for many proteins in the body."
and
"It (the visual model provided) does not normally reveal all that happens to metabolites further downstream. Each metabolite is subject to subsequent metabolism, until all that remains are free iodide and tyrosine molecules."

Thanks for sharing, I've learned a lot today about Thyroïd and Cortisol, that I did during the last few years, I was a little bit scared honestly to write this thread but I don't regret it.

 

[HeyThere]

and next most important is avoiding irritating things - spices, additives, unripe fruits, acidic / poor quality juices, oral supplements.

Salicylate sensitivity maybe?

 

[Dainis Spainis]

Try a carnivore diet. Also, look for DOI - it is LSD-like molecule but more potent in terms of anti-inflammation.

 

[ddjd]

be careful with lsd. it can be irreversibly damaging in my opinion. youre much better off using a natural source of psilocybin- chemically very similar to lsd but of course natural. over the years i have found magic mushrooms to be profoundly healing and whilst lsd causes very pleasant trips it leaves me with some serious lasting mental issues.

i bought a magic mushroom diy kit for 30 euros from the netherlands and grew them under the bed- couldnt have been easier and they were huge!

 

[Ahmed ELH]

Try a carnivore diet. Also, look for DOI - it is LSD-like molecule but more potent in terms of anti-inflammation.

I don't think so, I have tried carnivore many times and it made everything worse. However, my diet is mainly centered around meat, fruits, honey, oriental sweet potato, a little bit of veggies and some dairy products from time to time.

For DOI, the total duration that is between 16 to 24h will just mess with sleep, It's not worth it. Not to mention the fact that it lacks D2 agonism which is the reason why I switched from microdosing Psylocibin to LSD which made a huge difference in digestion, libido and somehow reversed my tolerance to caffeine.

be careful with lsd. it can be irreversibly damaging in my opinion. youre much better off using a natural source of psilocybin- chemically very similar to lsd but of course natural. over the years i have found magic mushrooms to be profoundly healing and whilst lsd causes very pleasant trips it leaves me with some serious lasting mental issues.

i bought a magic mushroom diy kit for 30 euros from the netherlands and grew them under the bed- couldnt have been easier and they were huge!

I used to grow magic mushrooms. I have done quit a lot of heroïc trips for 3 years straight, however my body couldn't tolerate mushrooms anymore after the 3 day fast.

Natural doesn't mean safe, mushrooms can exhaust your metabolism in the long run and can get you to some dark places too, not as intense/long as LSD for sure.
Hoewever LSD lacks the empathogenic space that can offer others naturals psychedelics compounds which is more favorable to anxiety and paranoïa.

At the end, I'm not a big fan either of high dose LSD trips. I'm using it mainly at around 10-15mcg 2 to 3 times a week for it's anti-serotonergic, and D2 agonist benefits.

I'd like to know what you mean by lasting mental issues, any psychedelic compound will if not used properly.