Is It Safe To Supplement Metavive Without A Diagnosed Thyroid Problem?

[connorj123]

I had a blood test done for my thyroid in 2018, and also two additional tests done this month for my thyroid, and the results keep coming back optimal. My latest test checked for Free T3, T4, FT4, TSH, and antibodies and apparently everything is normal.

This just doesn't make sense to me. I have really bad anxiety, some hair loss, reduced libido, fatigue, and low body temperature sometimes as well that has lead me to believe something is not right with my thyroid. I use to do a lot of fasting many years ago which is when my problems got worse, so I'm really not sure.

I have heard thyroid blood tests aren't always 100% reliable, but I may be wrong. If my thyroid is actually functioning fine, and I decided to take one of these capsules daily to see if it helps any of my symptoms, would I be doing any harm? If theres no risk to it I have nothing to lose honestly. Been fatigued for over 5-6+ years now.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[tankasnowgod]

If you have read Ray Peat or Broda Barnes, they both think other metrics are more useful than the available blood tests. Temp and Pulse, for example. There is also the reflex test, Dan Wich has a cool little video about that-



As for the supplement, yeah, it should be pretty safe. Traditionally, people ate the thyroid glands of animals, and in certain foods, you can get potentially up to the equivalent of 1/4th to 1 grain of thyroid over a day (Peat mentioned milk, crab, whole insects, and such), so it's not like people never got exogenous thyroid hormone before supplements came on the scene. There isn't any good evidence that taking supplemental thyroid will shut down your own thyroid permanently. I know Peat in the past has mentioned he varies thyroid intake with seasons, using up to 2 grains in the winter, and maybe a half grain in the summer. So the potential downside is pretty low.

 

[connorj123]

If you have read Ray Peat or Broda Barnes, they both think other metrics are more useful than the available blood tests. Temp and Pulse, for example. There is also the reflex test, Dan Wich has a cool little video about that-



As for the supplement, yeah, it should be pretty safe. Traditionally, people ate the thyroid glands of animals, and in certain foods, you can get potentially up to the equivalent of 1/4th to 1 grain of thyroid over a day (Peat mentioned milk, crab, whole insects, and such), so it's not like people never got exogenous thyroid hormone before supplements came on the scene. There isn't any good evidence that taking supplemental thyroid will shut down your own thyroid permanently. I know Peat in the past has mentioned he varies thyroid intake with seasons, using up to 2 grains in the winter, and maybe a half grain in the summer. So the potential downside is pretty low.

Good information, thanks. yeah i think ill start with the 30mg pig thyroid and see if anything happens. do you know what the general consensus is here about the same product equivalent but in adrenal form? because they sell freeze dried adrenals too. when i think of fatigue and anxiety, i think of adrenals and thyroid, but im guessing the consensus on this forum and ray peats info is, if you correct the thyroid the adrenals will start working properly anyway ?? i dont know if thats the case but i wouldnt be surprised. does peat say anything about the adrenal supps at all?

 

[shine]

I have read many reports from people who couldn't really handle NDT without also taking an adrenal glandular supplement. That's not the case for me and I would try the NDT on its own first. Pantothenic acid (Vitamin B5) sensitizes the adrenals to ACTH and could be tried in higher doses before trying an adrenal glandular supplement.

I wouldn't start with the 30mg but instead open the capsule and take a much smaller amount and see how you react.
I think your symptoms could also be greatly ameliorated by taking glycine and taurine.

 

[connorj123]

I have read many reports from people who couldn't really handle NDT without also taking an adrenal glandular supplement. That's not the case for me and I would try the NDT on its own first. Pantothenic acid (Vitamin B5) sensitizes the adrenals to ACTH and could be tried in higher doses before trying an adrenal glandular supplement.

I wouldn't start with the 30mg but instead open the capsule and take a much smaller amount and see how you react.
I think your symptoms could also be greatly ameliorated by taking glycine and taurine.

The only thing recently that has slightly improved my symptoms is eating frequently, im not sure if this indicates whether or not its a thyroid or adrenal problem. But in the past, going 5-6 hours at a time without eating anything wasnt an uncommon occurance for me. I now notice if I skip breakfast or go without eating, I get very angry and feel like I'm in some sort of adrenaline like state. Its definitely not blood sugar either. But sipping milk throughout the day definitely keeps me more stable

If the 15mg isnt in stock soon I will buy the 30mg like you say and empty a bit out, I didnt think you could be so reactive to this sort of supplement, I just imagine it as a tiny fraction of thyroid not having that big of an impact, especially compared to synthetic hormones, but yeah ill just empty some out of the capsule and see if it does anything. Is there a time frame do you think where I would expect my anxiety or fatigue to lessen some? They are what I'm trying to get rid of at the minute

 

[Randle Cyclist]

You could always try a bit of iodine(under 1 milligram) from seaweed and extra selenium before you try ndt. How is your iron and adrenal status? If either is too low you can get hypothyroid symptoms despite okay thyroid values. Also, you may have high reverse t3. There are those who say Rt3 is inert and doesn't block the t3 receptors while there are others who believe that it does in fact block the t3 receptors. I'm in the latter camp.

In my experience (I'm bona fide hypo), ndt (bovine) gave me paradoxical symptoms of both hyper and hypothyroidism. I would get severe palpitations and tachycardia every time I began to exercise. However, my body temperature dropped to its unmedicated level and I developed debilitating brain fog. I returned to t3 only after a week of ndt. My guess is that the T4 was converting to Rt3 in my body.

If you are going to take ndt regardless I recommend taking a tiny dose just to supplement your natural thyroid hormone production. If you take larger amounts your body will lower its production to compensate. At that point you'll have to take even more if you want to achieve a metabolic boost. Of course, your thyroid will bounce back to its previous function once you quit ndt.

 

[connorj123]

You could always try a bit of iodine(under 1 milligram) from seaweed and extra selenium before you try ndt. How is your iron and adrenal status? If either is too low you can get hypothyroid symptoms despite okay thyroid values. Also, you may have high reverse t3. There are those who say Rt3 is inert and doesn't block the t3 receptors while there are others who believe that it does in fact block the t3 receptors. I'm in the latter camp.

In my experience (I'm bona fide hypo), ndt (bovine) gave me paradoxical symptoms of both hyper and hypothyroidism. I would get severe palpitations and tachycardia every time I began to exercise. However, my body temperature dropped to its unmedicated level and I developed debilitating brain fog. I returned to t3 only after a week of ndt. My guess is that the T4 was converting to Rt3 in my body.

If you are going to take ndt regardless I recommend taking a tiny dose just to supplement your natural thyroid hormone production. If you take larger amounts your body will lower its production to compensate. At that point you'll have to take even more if you want to achieve a metabolic boost. Of course, your thyroid will bounce back to its previous function once you quit ndt.

I forgot to include this in the post but I get really bad brain frog as well. If its bad I literally find it hard to put full sentences together

Really not sure what to make about the rt3 test. Is it widely accepted that abnormal rt3 levels can indicate a thyroid problem? If not I dont know if I can justify the cost of the test

I cant officially tell you how my adrenals are no, I just want to try small amounts of thyroid to see if it makes a difference. To be fair, as said above, how much harm could it really do since people use to actually eat the thyroid including other organs. Its got to be more safe than some synthetic hormones

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Yes, high Rt3 indicates an issue of some sort, either with conversion, stress, or undereating, etc. It's your call. Unless you plan on using ndt indefinitely I recommend addressing the root cause for your symptoms. In all liklihood, it's not your thyroid since your blood test came back normal. I'd start with your adrenals. Low cortisol can make you feel pretty terrible with hypothyroid-like symptoms.

 

[connorj123]

Yes, high Rt3 indicates an issue of some sort, either with conversion, stress, or undereating, etc. It's your call. Unless you plan on using ndt indefinitely I recommend addressing the root cause for your symptoms. In all liklihood, it's not your thyroid since your blood test came back normal. I'd start with your adrenals. Low cortisol can make you feel pretty terrible with hypothyroid-like symptoms.

Yes, high Rt3 indicates an issue of some sort, either with conversion, stress, or undereating, etc. It's your call. Unless you plan on using ndt indefinitely I recommend addressing the root cause for your symptoms. In all liklihood, it's not your thyroid since your blood test came back normal. I'd start with your adrenals. Low cortisol can make you feel pretty terrible with hypothyroid-like symptoms.

I was just under the impression though that all of these problems originated from the thyroid at the root? Yeah true, all of my thyroid tests thus far excluding rt3 have come back as normal, so I would bet my rt3 is probably normal as well. Not sure how else to interpret it but of course if it is an adrenal problem I think thats harder to diagnose than thyroid is??

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Not necessarily. There are many people who start taking thyroid hormones, often in absurd doses, without any effect. No rise in temperature and pulse. Nothing. Just because the thyroid hormones are in the blood doesn't mean they're reaching the appropriate receptors in the cells.

One adrenal test you could do is a 24h salivary cortisol test. Or if you don't want to test you could try something like licorice root tea to lower your cortisol clearance levels. You could also try supplementing adrenal glandular but I'd be very careful with this. I've heard it can be quite dangerous if you quit cold turkey after taking a replacement level dosage for some time.

 

[connorj123]

Not necessarily. There are many people who start taking thyroid hormones, often in absurd doses, without any effect. No rise in temperature and pulse. Nothing. Just because the thyroid hormones are in the blood doesn't mean they're reaching the appropriate receptors in the cells.

One adrenal test you could do is a 24h salivary cortisol test. Or if you don't want to test you could try something like licorice root tea to lower your cortisol clearance levels. You could also try supplementing adrenal glandular but I'd be very careful with this. I've heard it can be quite dangerous if you quit cold turkey after taking a replacement level dosage for some time.

To be honest with you; just based on my low body temperature alone, I'm gonna experiment with a low dose of the thyroid. I cant see it hurting worst case scenario, and yeah I have heard about the complications when it comes to supplementing adrenal. I'll give it a couple of weeks or until the bottle is gone. I hope it helps

 

[Randle Cyclist]

Fair enough. I do hope it resolves your symptoms. Be sure to report back and let us know how it goes.

 

[connorj123]

Fair enough. I do hope it resolves your symptoms. Be sure to report back and let us know how it goes.

Yea yea I will do :)

 

[davidgraham]

Did metavive help you?