Thyroid supplementation: does your body downregulate natural production? Do you ever stop?

[AnonE]

I'm wondering what the general plan is for people supplementing thyroid directly.

Is it like testosterone for bodybuilders, I.e. your natural endogenous production decreases as you take it externally and raise levels? Doesn't this mean you'd rebound to low thyroid when coming off?

Or do people plan on taking it for life? What's the plan here?

Curious because I've always thought of adding in precursors to hormones (through diet, supps) rather than the hormones themselves.

 

[AnonE]

Bump

 

[Jinzo]

Would also like to know this. Especially in regards to natural desiccated thyroid.

 

[Lysander]

I

I'm wondering what the general plan is for people supplementing thyroid directly.

Is it like testosterone for bodybuilders, I.e. your natural endogenous production decreases as you take it externally and raise levels? Doesn't this mean you'd rebound to low thyroid when coming off?

Or do people plan on taking it for life? What's the plan here?

Curious because I've always thought of adding in precursors to hormones (through diet, supps) rather than the hormones themselves.

I believe I heard Ray Peat answer on the Danny Roddy podcast that thyroid function returns very quickly in just a couple of days when coming off. I personally do TRT but I haven't ventured into thyroid yet.

 

[DonLore]

IIRC there is a period of rebound low thyroid levels for a (few days to few weeks?). When I ran out of NDT in the winter, I was miserable for 1-2 weeks, even though I never had real hypothyroidism before. Now I just try and optomize thyroid function via food, red light, etc and seems like a better way

 

[sweetpeat]

It's all about context, so I think it depends on why you are hypothyroid in the first place. Some are hypothyroid due to diet and/or lifestyle choices:

“Besides fasting, or chronic protein deficiency, the common causes of hypothyroidism are excessive stress or ‘aerobic’ (i.e. anaerobic) exercise, and diets containing beans, lentils, nuts, unsaturated fats (including carotene), and undercooked broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, or mustard greens. Many health conscious people become hypothyroid with a synergistic program of undercooked vegetables, legumes instead of animal proteins, oils instead of butter, carotene instead of vitamin A, and breathless exercise instead of a stimulating life.” Ray Peat

If the underlying issue(s) can be corrected, then it seems the hypothyroidism would also be corrected. Another quote from Ray:
"After a year or more of good health, the amount (of thyroid) needed will usually decrease, if the diet has been good during that time."

Someone who has a subpar or damaged thyroid due to years or decades of untreated hypothyroidism or stress or congenital problems has more damage to overcome and may need to stay on exogenous thyroid.

 

[akgrrrl]

It's all about context, so I think it depends on why you are hypothyroid in the first place. Some are hypothyroid due to diet and/or lifestyle choices:

“Besides fasting, or chronic protein deficiency, the common causes of hypothyroidism are excessive stress or ‘aerobic’ (i.e. anaerobic) exercise, and diets containing beans, lentils, nuts, unsaturated fats (including carotene), and undercooked broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, or mustard greens. Many health conscious people become hypothyroid with a synergistic program of undercooked vegetables, legumes instead of animal proteins, oils instead of butter, carotene instead of vitamin A, and breathless exercise instead of a stimulating life.” Ray Peat

If the underlying issue(s) can be corrected, then it seems the hypothyroidism would also be corrected. Another quote from Ray:
"After a year or more of good health, the amount (of thyroid) needed will usually decrease, if the diet has been good during that time."

Someone who has a subpar or damaged thyroid due to years or decades of untreated hypothyroidism or stress or congenital problems has more damage to overcome and may need to stay on exogenous thyroid.

How about damage from supposed hypothyroidism "treated" with supplementation of every type for 16yrs? Its ok to go cold turkey and let the thyroid adjust? Doses over time were 25mcg to 175, t3& t4 separately dosed and together in standard levothyroxine, both natural and synth...orig diagnosis cause as result of traumatic injury but records not avail as that Doc was sentenced to Fed prison. Sigh. Just this week a different Doc wants me to toss it as tsh is in the minus and thinks past Docs werent looking at all the lab values...
But yeah they tell you that its for the rest of your life once diagnosed.

 

[sweetpeat]

How about damage from supposed hypothyroidism "treated" with supplementation of every type for 16yrs? Its ok to go cold turkey and let the thyroid adjust? Doses over time were 25mcg to 175, t3& t4 separately dosed and together in standard levothyroxine, both natural and synth...orig diagnosis cause as result of traumatic injury but records not avail as that Doc was sentenced to Fed prison. Sigh. Just this week a different Doc wants me to toss it as tsh is in the minus and thinks past Docs werent looking at all the lab values...
But yeah they tell you that its for the rest of your life once diagnosed.

Are you sure there's damage? I find it surprising that a doctor would tell you to stop taking thyroid if your own is damaged in some way.

 

[akgrrrl]

Are you sure there's damage? I find it surprising that a doctor would tell you to stop taking thyroid if your own is damaged in some way.

As surprising as telling you that you have a life threatening condition and MUST take this medication every day of your life to ameliorate it? As surprising as finding yourself weak as a kitten immobile in bed or weepy/ unable to read and comprehend, cold and shivering while wrapped in wools and heating pads? Are you saying that chemicals ingested to directly impact the thyroid for over a decade have left me unscathed if I but cease? It was last Friday this was told me, and I asked "wouldnt it be a bit dangerous to stop so suddenly with a high dose affecting what you call a life threatening condition?"
"Well, ok, here how about a very low dose and we'll see you in six weeks"
I have requested 16yrs of records from the pharmacy.
I have requested the lab record of the last 4years from this Doc, as I said the prev records to that, where the orig diagnosis was documented, the Doc is in Federal prison. I am concerned with now. Tsh on july 28 was .519, hemoglobin A1c 5.7
On april3, tts

 

[akgrrrl]

Oops fat finger post.
On april 4, tsh was .014, t4 free was 1.39
Dec 18 2020 tsh was .005 with t4free 1.39
Oct 18 2020 tsh was .005, t4 free 1.52
Thats all that they disclosed to me per lab records so I put in for full records 4years

 

[x-rain]

I believe I heard Ray Peat answer on the Danny Roddy podcast that thyroid function returns very quickly in just a couple of days when coming off.

Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy

Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) usually occurred in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

 

[akgrrrl]

Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy

Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) usually occurred in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.

Thankyou so very much.

 

[PxD]

From personal recent experience, attempting to supplement with NDT with the goal of supporting my thyroid led to my thyroid numbers crashing within a couple of months. My conclusion is that thyroid consumption is more for replacement than supplementation. Supplementation will suppress natural production.