The psychology of compulsive supplementation

[OccamzRazer]

You are literally in the same mindset with fasting

Are you sure? What mindset is that?

EDIT: Usually my mindset is pretty open...I'm just pro-accessibility, affordability, and simplicity when it comes to health solutions.

 

[ursidae]

food quality is sub par, allergies and food intolerances are on the rise, lots of pesticides and few organic options, lower mineral content due to soil depletion, if you live far from the equator tropical fruit and high quality tubers arrive shelf ripened and/or moldy. It would be optimal to go to mexico and start a farm and eat your own produce and hit all the RDI's that way but that's not the case for most
I had to move up 20 degrees (latitude) to the north to complete my education which was a mistake and one of the most unnatural aspects of this well connected world and I've found I'm neither adapted to the local diet nor is the food supply shipped from halfway across the world high quality enough, sups can help

 

[laleto12]

Are you sure? What mindset is that?

People buy supplements because they think that supps will cure what they are dealing in that moment.
You are doing the same with fasting which in excess are harmful like the supps are

 

[Peatness]

A 20 or 30 year old with high pufa better not fast. If they do they better know what they are doing.

 

[OccamzRazer]

People buy supplements because they think that supps will cure what they are dealing in that moment.
You are doing the same with fasting which in excess are harmful like the supps are

I agree with you that fasting in excess can be harmful, tho...

 

[Rasaari]

That sounds quite different than your original statement, but hey our views are more similar than first thought

Yeah I guess I was a bit argumentative... In terms of the "psychology of compulsive supplementation", I think on one side there's the capitalistic specialization where we go work our speciality and then expect that with the money earned we can exchange it to health by going to expensive specialists and spending money to add things rather than substracting, say working less. Then there's the general human idea of "more is more" so the more powders I chug down the better? Then there's the anxiety of inadequacy, so you feel like you have to add things to be adequate. Good example is the nootropics community where they chug all the latest & greatest research chemicals cause they feel inadequate in the brain department I know this from personal experience.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Hello everyone!

It seems as tho everyone is focusing on the term 'fasting' and related negative connotations.

What about the other things mentioned, and their potential roles in simple, free healing?

- Elimination diets
- Chi activation
- Meditation/prayer
- Movement therapy

 

[OccamzRazer]

Then there's the anxiety of inadequacy, so you feel like you have to add things to be adequate.

Ah, thanks for explaining, good food for thought! I think what you said here really sums it up well. Perhaps the human tendency to search for holy grails is an unavoidable one.

 

[Rasaari]

And I think there's also a hobby aspect to it as well. At least I find it fun to experiment with things and feel like I learn everyday something new.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

I know people who've been searching for the latest-and-greatest supplements for decades now...yet their health is completely falling apart. Joint pain, arthritis, hypothyroidism, premature aging, etc etc etc.

Many of these people have bitterness, unforgiveness, and an inability to 'let go' of their ego expectations, which manifests partially through orthorexia and an obsession with supplements.

If these people had done a little fasting and inner work, they'd be in a much better state. Instead they're off searching for the next great thing (ie. expensive supplement), not really realizing what they're doing.

Ye, and the more you 'let go' the more nutrition your body can 'hold on' to Most highly spiritual people end up getting into fasting/veganism as it helps them maintain their vibration, they think theres a karmic consequence to eating animals (that we take on the animals energy/stress profile) but obviously its a physical sacrifice that isn't sustainable for most.

Berzins on GE had a v nuanced view on how your energetic field (level of consciousness) impacts how you react to your environment (27min mark)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux3uWAa_zIY&t=1628s

 

[LUH 3417]

Just my 2c I fasted a lot in my early 20s, did lots of exercise, yoga, soul searching. Taking the right B vitamin eliminated chronic allergies I’ve had since high school. There is something fascistic to me about spirituality, it’s like you have to torture yourself for some semblance of truth and the target is always moving. There’s a lot of egoism involved as well. Oh look I’m kinder/more amenable/insert whatever spiritual value people prize here.

 

[Sam321]

Neither a psychologist nor a supplement expert, and the following thoughts are a little oversimplified...but this is something I've noticed a lot around here:

Most people seem like they'd rather take a supplement than address the mental, spiritual, and chemical factors that made them feel the need supplements in the first place.

For example,

- People would rather take exogenous testosterone or youth-associated hormones than boost their production with sunlight, thyroid, training stimulus, etc.
- People would rather take a supplement for circulation than simply promote circulation mechanically (thru spinning, yoga, inversion, warmth, etc)
- People would rather take all sorts of chelating supplements than just fast for a few days and let the liver detox that way

To summarize, many seem to prefer taking expensive, exogenous substances...

...instead of coaxing their body into producing the endogenous substances it needs.

This seems to have led to a mental framework that's resistant to many time-tested, simple, and free remedies. Things like the following:

- Short-term fasting
- Bone broth fasting
- Elimination diets
- Chi activation
- Meditation/prayer
- Movement therapy

* I'm not against supplementation and realize these differing mindsets can both exist in the same individual. I still take several things myself. Just sharing some [possibly unpopular] thoughts...

100% agree.
This forum needs this perspective.

 

[mostlylurking]

I believe Peat said high-carbohydrate diets require thiamine supplementation to prevent deficiency. I have trouble finding the quote.

I can't find it either. From memory, he said in an audio show when talking about sugar, that an ideal amount of sugar per day is the amount contained in a quart of orange juice, then I think he said something like, "if you consume more than that, you'll want to supplement with some thiamine". Take it with a grain of salt; I can't find the quote. While searching with this search engine: Bioenergetic Search for "B1", then for "thiamine", I did find that he says he's had good effects with as little as 10mgs of thiamine and that 100mgs is fine. I'm taking more than that, but then I've been diagnosed with lead poisoning, which increases the need for thiamine.

Here's a collection of written quotes by Ray Peat about thiamine: Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine

 

[Kayaker]

Wouldn’t he need to supplement thiamine then?

He said he took it to study. Can't find the exact quote.

A New Day, A New Start

@Runenight201 What a life, just read Diogenes' wiki page. warren buffet said that the mystical "it" is being loved or liked... " the ultimate test of how you have lived your life" Hi rpf! Hope everyone is well. I am thinking about trying to eat a lot more saturated fat. Like, fully-saturated...

raypeatforum.com

planning to start taking a thiamine supplement tomorrow.i'm just having a flashback to dr. peat talking about B1 improving his memory of French vocab and I'm trying to finish up midterms and stuff. good night rpf

Also, this quote from him.

Yeah, B vitamins act very quickly, so you can usually see an effect, sometimes - like with Vitamin B1 you can often feel an effect in the first hour, with Vitamin B6, you generally feel an effect in the first day. And with Vitamin B6, sometimes 10mg is all it needs and one dose will often take care of a problem that has lingered for a long time. And it's good if you can use a few doses of the supplements, because most of the supplements have impurities and excipients that aren't good in the long run.”

I heard Peat is in Oregon, rather than in Mexico, and is probably subject to more EMF than in his thick-walled house there, but I bet he still takes measures to avoid it.

Ray Peat Email Advice Depository

Q: Someone said gelatin has lots of arginine and causes pimples and shingles when eaten Can great lakes gelatin be eaten straight out of the container with a spoon or does it need to be cooked or have water added A: I hadn’t heard the pimples-shingles thing before. When I have traveled, it has...

raypeatforum.com

I use a landline phone; the constant technological up-dates and innovations are doing more harm than good.

I believe EMF depletes thiamine.

How does thiamine relate to EMF-hypersensitivity and brain cell dysfunction?

This article will examine how non-native electromagnetic frequencies have been shown to affect the brain and neurological system, the physiological foundations of electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome, and how specific nutrients have been researched to support the antioxidant system in the...

web.archive.org

Wildlife is dying from deficiency.

News Feature: Deadly deficiency at the heart of an environmental mystery

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The ocean is polluted by DDT.

As Much As 150,000 Barrels Of DDT Underneath California Ocean Floor

This is an Outrage - and the press treats it like it's no big deal - that to me is another outrage !! How much has been leaking into the ocean/environment all this time ? Who's responsible for all this - who if anybody will be brought to "justice" - Who's secretly known about it? So many more...

raypeatforum.com

The food chain is poisoned by it.

Chemicals banned decades ago continue to harm wildlife

www.ksby.com

DDT depletes thiamine.

Thiamine deficiency induced by polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB) and dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane (DDT) administration to rats - PubMed

To clarify the effect of polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB), and dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane (DDT) and other organochloride compounds on thiamine metabolism, rats were separated into six groups and placed on different admixed diets. Group 1 was fed a normal diet; group 2, a PCB-supplemented...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

DDT is present in the food supply.

U.S. Food Still Tainted with Old Chemicals

Thirty-eight years after DDT was banned, Americans still consume trace amounts of the infamous insecticide every day, along with more than 20 other banned chemicals

www.scientificamerican.com

Most Peaty foods are already low in thiamine, and carbohydrates deplete it further. Fat-soluble DDT in dietary fat, which builts up in the fat-rich brain which is metabolically active and uses a lot of thiamine, as well as EMF such as wifi that's often emitted in the vicinity of the head make it much worse.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Just my 2c I fasted a lot in my early 20s, did lots of exercise, yoga, soul searching. Taking the right B vitamin eliminated chronic allergies I’ve had since high school. There is something fascistic to me about spirituality, it’s like you have to torture yourself for some semblance of truth and the target is always moving. There’s a lot of egoism involved as well. Oh look I’m kinder/more amenable/insert whatever spiritual value people prize here.

Fair enough, I guess everyone's experience is different!

What B vitamin did you take, and what allergies did it eliminate? Just out of curiousity.

True spirituality should be about dissolving or at least limiting the ego, so I wouldn't doubt that any other kind of spirituality could have bad effects.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Ye, and the more you 'let go' the more nutrition your body can 'hold on' to Most highly spiritual people end up getting into fasting/veganism as it helps them maintain their vibration, they think theres a karmic consequence to eating animals (that we take on the animals energy/stress profile) but obviously its a physical sacrifice that isn't sustainable for most.

Berzins on GE had a v nuanced view on how your energetic field (level of consciousness) impacts how you react to your environment (27min mark)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux3uWAa_zIY&t=1628s

Thank you sir, once again bringing the good stuff!

More and more I'm feeling that the ideal would be to raise and eat one's own animals, and get a greater appreciation for the circle of life...just not quite there yet.

Checking out the video now.

 

[stressless]

searching for the latest-and-greatest supplements

This is similar to the fake guru craze we see going on these days. Replace 'supplements' with 'coaching program', 'cryptocurrency', 'investment', 'MLM', etc. or any "get rich quick" scam.

Fewer people these days are willing to put in the hard work to be healthy, wealthy, learn a skill, etc. and are susceptible to falling for the promise of an "easy fix" lie (myself included). The more they fall into the trap, the harder it is to get out. Seems like it's part of a larger societal issue... (ie if everyone is vaccinated, covid will go away, instead of addressing the reason covid exists *cough* *cough* Fauci, the CCP, OWO, the great Reset, etc.....)

I'm always worried about falling into the trap of taking too many supplements and have thought about your point a lot. I'm not sure what the answer is. I think as long as you continue to work on your health, using supplements can be beneficial as part of a larger picture and not the actual solution.

With supplements I think they key here is to find a balance, but I do see a trend of people wanting a one-and-done supplement, when in-reality it takes a lot of hard work to get the dosage right. I have a hard time believing people who say things like "I took XYZ supplement and it completely changed my life".

I don't think fasting is a good idea, but to your other idea about prayer, I 100% agree. My Catholic faith is the most important aspect to my health and I do not feel well when I am not well spiritually :)

Anyways, I'm all over the place, but this is a very helpful topic to be discussing - thank you for brining it up!!

 

[OccamzRazer]

100% agree.
This forum needs this perspective.

Thanks brother! (Or sister, as Sam is a neutral name in some countries.)

Once you see this, you almost can't unsee it.

 

[Peatful]

Many on this forum appear to be afraid of food.

 

[OccamzRazer]

This is similar to the fake guru craze we see going on these days. Replace 'supplements' with 'coaching program', 'cryptocurrency', 'investment', 'MLM', etc. or any "get rich quick" scam.

Fewer people these days are willing to put in the hard work to be healthy, wealthy, learn a skill, etc. and are susceptible to falling for the promise of an "easy fix" lie (myself included). The more they fall into the trap, the harder it is to get out. Seems like it's part of a larger societal issue... (ie if everyone is vaccinated, covid will go away, instead of addressing the reason covid exists *cough* *cough* Fauci, the CCP, OWO, the great Reset, etc.....)

I'm always worried about falling into the trap of taking too many supplements and have thought about your point a lot. I'm not sure what the answer is. I think as long as you continue to work on your health, using supplements can be beneficial as part of a larger picture and not the actual solution.

With supplements I think they key here is to find a balance, but I do see a trend of people wanting a one-and-done supplement, when in-reality it takes a lot of hard work to get the dosage right. I have a hard time believing people who say things like "I took XYZ supplement and it completely changed my life".

I don't think fasting is a good idea, but to your other idea about prayer, I 100% agree. My Catholic faith is the most important aspect to my health and I do not feel well when I am not well spiritually :)

Anyways, I'm all over the place, but this is a very helpful topic to be discussing - thank you for brining it up!!

Hey thanks for your insight! This is definitely a good topic to discuss, even if the discussion flows wildly from one subtopic to the next.

I totally agree that fixation on supplements is partially fueled by modern thinking - and the desire for easy fixes that comes with it.

Catholicism is cool! Can't help but bring this up, tho...don't Catholics have modified fasting days with no meat or similar limitations?

Regardless, prayer is a huge thing. It's all too easy to forget about God - thankfully He seems to have mercy on us again and again lol.