Starch - The Delicious Devil

[Rinse & rePeat]

Just yesterday I listened to Peat's "Milk" KMUD interview, where he stated the following, which seems relevant:

When asked about how to maintain high carbon dioxide, Peat said: "The sucrose in fruit or honey, or just plain sugar, is 50% fructose 50% glucose, and it just takes a little fructose to catalyze the more energetic burning of glucose, producing carbon dioxide. So you don't have to eat a pure sugar carbohydrate diet to have optimal carbon dioxide production, but it's okay to avoid starch entirely."

https://askyourherbdoctor.com/audio/Milk.mp3

Yayyy Vileplume you are always spot on!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

It is not always about foods when it comes to hair.
Sun, stress, physical activity, season of the year, fresh air , all can have an effect on hair.
When I'm on vacation , despite eating junk foods all day long , cookies, croissants, hot dogs , any kind fastfood... my hair improves a lot too and my weight normalizes, muscle tone improves. Basically antipeat diet

Look at my non-rat study on myself on the subject and SEE the difference between a starch and non-starch body, in the link I sent to you, with my before and after. I WAS you, very thin and "skinny fat". Put your money where you're mouth is, I certainly have.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

It is not always about foods when it comes to hair.
Sun, stress, physical activity, season of the year, fresh air , sleeping enough, all can have an effect on hair.
When I'm on vacation , despite eating junk foods all day long , cookies, croissants, hot dogs , any kind fastfood... my hair improves a lot too and my weight normalizes, muscle tone improves. Basically antipeat diet

I imagine you are in your 20's Apollo, when you've got a lot of "get out of jail cards" piled up. Wait till you get 58, like myself, and they are all used up and all that is left is transparency, with everyone getting to see the "you are what you eat".

 

[Apple]

I imagine you are in your 20's Apollo, when you've got a lot of "get out of jail cards" piled up. Wait till you get 58, like myself, and they are all used up and all that is left is transparency, with everyone getting to see the "you are what you eat".

I admit, you have excellent results on RP diet and I am not against low starch - high sugar.
After all starch is just a condensed glucose
Though you would still be getting a good amount of starch with all the fruit and carrots nonetheless

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I admit, you have excellent results on RP diet and I am not against low starch - high sugar.
After all starch is just a condensed glucose
Though you would still be getting a good amount of starch with all the fruit and carrots nonetheless

I respect you immensely for saying that Apollo. I am not against low starch either, especially from potatoes or masa, delicious!

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I imagine you are in your 20's Apollo, when you've got a lot of "get out of jail cards" piled up. Wait till you get 58, like myself, and they are all used up and all that is left is transparency, with everyone getting to see the "you are what you eat".

Gotta give props where props are due. You look fantastic for 58. I find it hard to believe.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Very sporadically. I am much more of a coffee drinker than he ever has been. He does drink it from time to time, but then goes a long time without drinking it. The last time I visited him he made a pot, but that might have been to be social with me.

He also eats a fairly big breakfast (always oats/oatmeal with milk, some juice, an egg, sometimes with a type of meat), and takes quite a few naps. The naps have increased with his age (he takes 2-3 a day now), but he has ALWAYS been a napper. Something I've inherited from him. Which makes me think he also has brain chemistry/energy issues. Physically speaking (body) we're both very healthy.

Brain chemistry wise I think we both lack in energy (although both of us are pretty high intelligence, my dad perhaps more intellectual than me as a university professor), and actually not great emotional intelligence. I've had to learn my emotional intelligence, and my dad never really did. Meaning he's not in great control of his emotions when they arise. So physically speaking pretty great, in almost every way. Emotionally/brain chemistry/energy speaking probably a few things that need to be tweaked. Which is what I'm working on personally for myself.

I should also add (about my 99 year old dad's diet) that he ONLY ever ate olive oil. No canola, no margarine, some butter every once in a while (but I don't remember it much). It was olive oil or the highway for my dad. Also what he used as hand/body lotion. Just an added tidbit.

 

[Nicole W.]

Are you kidding? Obviously you are not a cook, cause Ray Peat is the easiest cooking with all the dairy and sugar! I have gelatinous gravies, alfredo sauce, cheese sauces, garlic herb butters, hollandaise sauce, curries, homemade ice creams in so many flavors, milkshakes, smoothies, crab dipped in drawn Old Bay butter, thai sticky fruit, custards, baked apples, jellies, Italian fried mozzarella, Hawaiian pineapple meatloaf, omelettes, lobsterc &crab bisque, every flavor of wings imaginable, meatballs of every kind (swedish meatballs was my dinner last night), lettuce wrapped burgers, bbq ribs, stuffed peppers of every kind, so many wonderful ways to eat oxtails, Pho, fresh fruit jello, chocolate pudding with fresh whipped cream, decadent flourless brownies. What else do want? This is the easiest most decadent, guilt free way I have ever eaten. What are what are we missing here?

Yum! I want to eat at your house!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Gotta give props where props are due. You look fantastic for 58. I find it hard to believe.

That is why I get so frustrated trying to say, "Ray Peat is so right on the money!" I so admire him for how he has elevated our life through our health, our food and youthfulness. My friends are always on restrictive diets, as I use to be, and my diet now has me eating like a queen!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Yum! I want to eat at your house!

Pure Ray Peat my friend nom nom!

 

[Apple]

I should also add (about my 99 year old dad's diet) that he ONLY ever ate olive oil. No canola, no margarine, some butter every once in a while (but I don't remember it much). It was olive oil or the highway for my dad. Also what he used as hand/body lotion. Just an added tidbit.

Sure olive oil is a part of the equation
Starches vs sugars
I guess the truth lies somewhere in the middle
I believe ggenereux is also onto something with his low vit A

 

[Sefton10]

"Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat production becomes much larger than when equal amounts of sugar and starch are eaten. The obesity itself then becomes an additional physiological factor; the fat cells create something analogous to an inflammatory state. There isn’t anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn’t necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches. For example, fruits have many advantages over grains, besides the difference between sugar and starch. Bread and pasta consumption are strongly associated with the occurrence of diabetes, fruit consumption has a strong inverse association.”-Ray Peat

Starch and protein with low fat is insulin city. That's great for bodybuilders who are doing the work for that insulin to direct energy to muscle and need to be hungry so they can literally eat more more often! But if someone is sedentary and eating that way they are going to store fat. Unless they under-eat calories, which is going to tank their metabolism anyway, so they still get fatter over time.

If you are active, with good gut integrity and feel good on starches, have at it. That is typically the default for many until they hit their 20s/30s. BUT, youth forgives a lot. Eventually the fibre, endotoxin etc catches up with you, especially in the modern day due to the lower quality of most starch-based foods. I'm 41 now but if I knew what I know now in my 20s I would have massively reduced the amount of starch I ate (I was an oatmeal fiend for years).

I still think a lot of people are loathe to reduce or give up starches because they are so socially ingrained. Many people want to eat with their families and out with friends, where starch is a big part of most meals. I get why some people don't want to ostracise or draw attention to themselves in those circumstances. Personally, I'd just rather feel lighter and more energetic and not face the bloating and brain fog after a heavy starch meal. I also appreciate that starch is convenient to prepare and cheap, especially if you have a family to feed, so there's that too. Ultimately, fruit, honey and dairy are just infinitely better carb sources for me, and I feel good on them with no desire for starch. Everyone has to experiment and do the best for them in their own circumstances.

 

[Apple]

I should also add (about my 99 year old dad's diet) that he ONLY ever ate olive oil. No canola, no margarine, some butter every once in a while (but I don't remember it much). It was olive oil or the highway for my dad. Also what he used as hand/body lotion. Just an added tidbit.

Would be interesting to know about his hair ?
Is he still drinking milk (raw or supermarket) daily ?

 

[Highserotonin90]

The study that you postec has no relevance to what Ray Peat is saying or in my dad's Alzheimer's. Our Western diet of lard and oils definetly is a constributor, but that doesn't pertain to us Peater's who dont eat that anyway and still struggle with weight. There are many roads to weight loss Highserotonin90, hence why there are many diets that work. I have been doing Ray Peat for almost 5 years now, trying to have my cake and eat it too with the starches; masa, boiling potatoes instead of baking, using heirloom wheat, only buying good pasta from Italy and it didn't work. I wrote about it in my Post Lose Fat Not Pounds, and show my before and after pics taking out the starches. When I add back in the starches the weight comes on easily. With that being said I also had great success taking off 20 pounds, fairly quickly, doing a mono-potato fast. There are great studies how prison people have lived on plain potatoes exclusively and are healthier that the others that get a variety. Eating them alone, they day, will lean out a fat man and put weight on a lean man. It is true, a potato is the great starch stabilizer. Roasted red potatoes are very flavorful alone, once your taste buds adapt. I would eat 3 pounds day and lose, on the average, a pound a day, without losing all my muscle tone. I can see why it is on the Ray Peat food pyramid. The problem with keeping them in a regular rotation for weight is Ray Peat says not to have sugars with starches so there goes all the vitamin C and colorful foods. Starches and their phosphorus and anti-nutrients cause graying hair, rotting teeth, insulin spikes, difficult digestion, etc, ect. If calcium attaches itself to phosphorus and gets carried out of the body then you would have to UP your calcium EVEN MORE to get the bare minimum, all for a bowl of starch? Do really think anybody is taking all of that into consideration when they are happy with what their chronometer says. There are so many variables with starches. Yes our ancestors ate them, which came in handy, especially living in cold places and extremely dry places where fruit wasn't available or in season, otherewise they would have to subscribe to a 'keto" all meat and fat diet to thrive. The point of Ray Peat isn't about how to make it to 100 years old or to prove that his protocol will win the race to the end of our lives against the low carb, paleo keto crowds or even against good old grandpa who smokes a pack and and drinks his whiskey everyday cause we will all be there, just some of us will be grumbling a bit more and others will look a lot better.

You think this type of diet with no starch work for bodybuilder ? ?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Starch and protein with low fat is insulin city. That's great for bodybuilders who are doing the work for that insulin to direct energy to muscle and need to be hungry so they can literally eat more more often! But if someone is sedentary and eating that way they are going to store fat. Unless they under-eat calories, which is going to tank their metabolism anyway, so they still get fatter over time.

If you are active, with good gut integrity and feel good on starches, have at it. That is typically the default for many until they hit their 20s/30s. BUT, youth forgives a lot. Eventually the fibre, endotoxin etc catches up with you, especially in the modern day due to the lower quality of most starch-based foods. I'm 41 now but if I knew what I know now in my 20s I would have massively reduced the amount of starch I ate (I was an oatmeal fiend for years).

I still think a lot of people are loathe to reduce or give up starches because they are so socially ingrained. Many people want to eat with their families and out with friends, where starch is a big part of most meals. I get why some people don't want to ostracise or draw attention to themselves in those circumstances. Personally, I'd just rather feel lighter and more energetic and not face the bloating and brain fog after a heavy starch meal. I also appreciate that starch is convenient to prepare and cheap, especially if you have a family to feed, so there's that too. Ultimately, fruit, honey and dairy are just infinitely better carb sources for me, and I feel good on them with no desire for starch. Everyone has to experiment and do the best for them in their own circumstances.

You said that perfectly Sefton10! Restaurants are the worst!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

You think this type of diet with no starch work for bodybuilder ? ?

I am not a bodybuilder and neither is Ray Peat so we wouldn't be in the gym wasting time doing something like that. Body builders that dont want the damage of starches usually go keto.

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[wealthofwisdom]

Would be interesting to know about his hair ?
Is he still drinking milk (raw or supermarket) daily ?

Hair = pretty much bald. Starting balding in his 50s-60s. Drinks milk daily from the supermarket. Big milk drinker and always has been. (Also big juice drinker - often orange juice.) Used to drink raw milk only, when he could get it, but that source ended about 20 years ago.

One thing I forgot to add that was a major stable in my dad's life (and mine as a child) were BEANS. Pinto beans to be exact. He used to make his own pot of beans (from dried beans he soaked overnight) about every week. I grew up on pinto beans. He doesn't eat them as much anymore, because he liked to make his own and he's cut down on making things from scratch like he used to. He's not as big on canned beans. But beans were a big one. Also made his own chicken stock (sometimes beef stock) on a regular basis, adding it to whatever he was making.

If there's one lesson from my dad it's make things from scratch and eat as few processed foods as possible. At least that's what I took away from it.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Would be interesting to know about his hair ?
Is he still drinking milk (raw or supermarket) daily ?

But my maternal grandfather died at 98 with almost all of his hair still in tact, and his diet was more of a "standard American diet". Not super unhealthy junk food wise, but think standard cowboy food. Like what you would order from a truck stop. But he wasn't quite as healthy physically as my dad at that age. But hair seems to be so much about genetics. My mom inherited her dad's hair (LUCKY). Thick, shiny, started graying around age 60. I inherited my dad's hair (not as lucky as it's much thinner), but as a woman I'm not going bald, so that's good. I also have no gray hair, so there's that :) I think I got that from my mom, as my dad started going gray probably in his 30s-40s.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hair = pretty much bald. Starting balding in his 50s-60s. Drinks milk daily from the supermarket. Big milk drinker and always has been. (Also big juice drinker - often orange juice.) Used to drink raw milk only, when he could get it, but that source ended about 20 years ago.

One thing I forgot to add that was a major stable in my dad's life (and mine as a child) were BEANS. Pinto beans to be exact. He used to make his own pot of beans (from dried beans he soaked overnight) about every week. I grew up on pinto beans. He doesn't eat them as much anymore, because he liked to make his own and he's cut down on making things from scratch like he used to. He's not as big on canned beans. But beans were a big one. Also made his own chicken stock (sometimes beef stock) on a regular basis, adding it to whatever he was making.

If there's one lesson from my dad it's make things from scratch and eat as few processed foods as possible. At least that's what I took away from it.

He has got it down! I make my beans with homemade gelatinous broth too. I am fortunate to have raw milk in our grocery stores. It is by far the one thing we spend most of our grocery money on. Your dad is spot on Wealth!

 

[Apple]

Hair = pretty much bald. Starting balding in his 50s-60s. Drinks milk daily from the supermarket. Big milk drinker and always has been. (Also big juice drinker - often orange juice.) Used to drink raw milk only, when he could get it, but that source ended about 20 years ago.

One thing I forgot to add that was a major stable in my dad's life (and mine as a child) were BEANS. Pinto beans to be exact. He used to make his own pot of beans (from dried beans he soaked overnight) about every week. I grew up on pinto beans. He doesn't eat them as much anymore, because he liked to make his own and he's cut down on making things from scratch like he used to. He's not as big on canned beans. But beans were a big one. Also made his own chicken stock (sometimes beef stock) on a regular basis, adding it to whatever he was making.

If there's one lesson from my dad it's make things from scratch and eat as few processed foods as possible. At least that's what I took away from it.

Tha't interesting, thanks for sharing these details. With olive oil and beans it resembles mediterranean diet.
Beans are always a secret ingredient among centenarians .