Starch - The Delicious Devil

Quelsatron

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
484
I find it impossible to sustain myself on sugar, after a few hours i get extremely hungry, except it's not the stomach rumbling kind of hunger, but the headache and fatigue kind of hunger. A good starchy meal is even tastier than any kind of sugar.
 

Sefton10

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
1,593
 
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
283
Just curious...Is he a coffee drinker ?
Very sporadically. I am much more of a coffee drinker than he ever has been. He does drink it from time to time, but then goes a long time without drinking it. The last time I visited him he made a pot, but that might have been to be social with me.

He also eats a fairly big breakfast (always oats/oatmeal with milk, some juice, an egg, sometimes with a type of meat), and takes quite a few naps. The naps have increased with his age (he takes 2-3 a day now), but he has ALWAYS been a napper. Something I've inherited from him. Which makes me think he also has brain chemistry/energy issues. Physically speaking (body) we're both very healthy.

Brain chemistry wise I think we both lack in energy (although both of us are pretty high intelligence, my dad perhaps more intellectual than me as a university professor), and actually not great emotional intelligence. I've had to learn my emotional intelligence, and my dad never really did. Meaning he's not in great control of his emotions when they arise. So physically speaking pretty great, in almost every way. Emotionally/brain chemistry/energy speaking probably a few things that need to be tweaked. Which is what I'm working on personally for myself.
 

Jam

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,212
Age
52
Location
Piedmont
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
The study that you postec has no relevance to what Ray Peat is saying or in my dad's Alzheimer's. Our Western diet of lard and oils definetly is a constributor, but that doesn't pertain to us Peater's who dont eat that anyway and still struggle with weight. There are many roads to weight loss Highserotonin90, hence why there are many diets that work. I have been doing Ray Peat for almost 5 years now, trying to have my cake and eat it too with the starches; masa, boiling potatoes instead of baking, using heirloom wheat, only buying good pasta from Italy and it didn't work. I wrote about it in my Post Lose Fat Not Pounds, and show my before and after pics taking out the starches. When I add back in the starches the weight comes on easily. With that being said I also had great success taking off 20 pounds, fairly quickly, doing a mono-potato fast. There are great studies how prison people have lived on plain potatoes exclusively and are healthier that the others that get a variety. Eating them alone, they day, will lean out a fat man and put weight on a lean man. It is true, a potato is the great starch stabilizer. Roasted red potatoes are very flavorful alone, once your taste buds adapt. I would eat 3 pounds day and lose, on the average, a pound a day, without losing all my muscle tone. I can see why it is on the Ray Peat food pyramid. The problem with keeping them in a regular rotation for weight is Ray Peat says not to have sugars with starches so there goes all the vitamin C and colorful foods. Starches and their phosphorus and anti-nutrients cause graying hair, rotting teeth, insulin spikes, difficult digestion, etc, ect. If calcium attaches itself to phosphorus and gets carried out of the body then you would have to UP your calcium EVEN MORE to get the bare minimum, all for a bowl of starch? Do really think anybody is taking all of that into consideration when they are happy with what their chronometer says. There are so many variables with starches. Yes our ancestors ate them, which came in handy, especially living in cold places and extremely dry places where fruit wasn't available or in season, otherewise they would have to subscribe to a 'keto" all meat and fat diet to thrive. The point of Ray Peat isn't about how to make it to 100 years old or to prove that his protocol will win the race to the end of our lives against the low carb, paleo keto crowds or even against good old grandpa who smokes a pack and and drinks his whiskey everyday cause we will all be there, just some of us will be grumbling a bit more and others will look a lot better.
 

Apple

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
1,267
The study that you postec has no relevance to what Ray Peat is saying or in my dad's Alzheimer's. Our Western diet of lard and oils definetly is a constributor, but that doesn't pertain to us Peater's who dont eat that anyway and still struggle with weight. There are many roads to weight loss Highserotonin90, hence why there are many diets that work. I have been doing Ray Peat for almost 5 years now, trying to have my cake and eat it too with the starches; masa, boiling potatoes instead of baking, using heirloom wheat, only buying good pasta from Italy and it didn't work. I wrote about it in my Post Lose Fat Not Pounds, and show my before and after pics taking out the starches. When I add back in the starches the weight comes on easily. With that being said I also had great success taking off 20 pounds, fairly quickly, doing a mono-potato fast. There are great studies how prison people have lived on plain potatoes exclusively and are healthier that the others that get a variety. Eating them alone, they day, will lean out a fat man and put weight on a lean man. It is true, a potato is the great starch stabilizer. Roasted red potatoes are very flavorful alone, once your taste buds adapt. I would eat 3 pounds day and lose, on the average, a pound a day, without losing all my muscle tone. I can see why it is on the Ray Peat food pyramid. The problem with keeping them in a regular rotation for weight is Ray Peat says not to have sugars with starches so there goes all the vitamin C and colorful foods. Starches and their phosphorus and anti-nutrients cause graying hair, rotting teeth, insulin spikes, difficult digestion, etc, ect. If calcium attaches itself to phosphorus and gets carried out of the body then you would have to UP your calcium EVEN MORE to get the bare minimum, all for a bowl of starch? Do really think anybody is taking all of that into consideration when they are happy with what their chronometer says. There are so many variables with starches. Yes our ancestors ate them, which came in handy, especially living in cold places and extremely dry places where fruit wasn't available or in season, otherewise they would have to subscribe to a 'keto" all meat and fat diet to thrive. The point of Ray Peat isn't about how to make it to 100 years old or to prove that his protocol will win the race to the end of our lives against the low carb, paleo keto crowds or even against good old grandpa who smokes a pack and and drinks his whiskey everyday cause we will all be there, just some of us will be grumbling a bit more and others will look a lot better.
If not starches then there is not much left to eat...
Relying on animal foods only is not sustainable, expensive, makes you aggressive (can be confused with energetic).
Meat/proteins cause insulin spikes and grey hair and most adults won't digest milk properly.
Meat eaters suffer teeth decay same way from calcium /phosphorus imbalance

Maya living on the Yucatan peninsula do not brush their teeth, and also have no tooth decay, but their diet is very different from that of the Inuit. The Maya eat primarily beans and corn and rice, and live off of a mostly vegetarian diet.
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
I find it impossible to sustain myself on sugar, after a few hours i get extremely hungry, except it's not the stomach rumbling kind of hunger, but the headache and fatigue kind of hunger. A good starchy meal is even tastier than any kind of sugar.
I agree with you on that Quelsatron. It is hard to eat only fruit and protein without looking for the next meal pretty soon. adding in fats like a fattier cut grass fed steak or adding in some fattier sauces like a gelatinous gravy on a pot roast, alfredo sauce on chicken, garlic herb butter on a steak is longer satiating. I also like to make milkshakes or ice cream with my fruits, not just eat fruit alone. Even 4 or 5 macadamia nuts with fruit is long lasting.
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
If not starches then there is not much left to eat...
Relying on animal foods only is not sustainable, expensive, makes you aggressive (can be confused with energetic).
Meat/proteins cause insulin spikes and grey hair and most adults won't digest milk properly.
Meat eaters suffer teeth decay same way from calcium /phosphorus imbalance

Maya living on the Yucatan peninsula do not brush their teeth, and also have no tooth decay, but their diet is very different from that of the Inuit. The Maya eat primarily beans and corn and rice, and live off of a mostly vegetarian diet.
Are you kidding? Obviously you are not a cook, cause Ray Peat is the easiest cooking with all the dairy and sugar! I have gelatinous gravies, alfredo sauce, cheese sauces, garlic herb butters, hollandaise sauce, curries, homemade ice creams in so many flavors, milkshakes, smoothies, crab dipped in drawn Old Bay butter, thai sticky fruit, custards, baked apples, jellies, Italian fried mozzarella, Hawaiian pineapple meatloaf, omelettes, lobsterc &crab bisque, every flavor of wings imaginable, meatballs of every kind (swedish meatballs was my dinner last night), lettuce wrapped burgers, bbq ribs, stuffed peppers of every kind, so many wonderful ways to eat oxtails, Pho, fresh fruit jello, chocolate pudding with fresh whipped cream, decadent flourless brownies. What else do want? This is the easiest most decadent, guilt free way I have ever eaten. What are what are we missing here?
 

Apple

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
1,267
Are you kidding? Obviously you are not a cook, cause Ray Peat is the easiest cooking with all the dairy and sugar! I have gelatinous gravies, alfredo sauce, cheese sauces, garlic herb butters, hollandaise sauce, curries, homemade ice creams in so many flavors, milkshakes, smoothies, crab dipped in drawn Old Bay butter, thai sticky fruit, custards, baked apples, jellies, Italian fried mozzarella, Hawaiian pineapple meatloaf, omelettes, lobsterc &crab bisque, every flavor of wings imaginable, meatballs of every kind (swedish meatballs was my dinner last night), lettuce wrapped burgers, bbq ribs, stuffed peppers of every kind, so many wonderful ways to eat oxtails, Pho, fresh fruit jello, chocolate pudding with fresh whipped cream, decadent flourless brownies. What else do want? This is the easiest most decadent, guilt free way I have ever eaten. What are what are we missing here?
And then people complain about getting fat :))
o_O I'm not a fussy eater . Bowl of rice with some meat and mushrooms totaly satisfies me. Or occasional pizza with beer . I'm extra thin at that.
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
And then people complain about getting fat :))
o_O I'm not a fussy eater . Bowl of rice with some meat and mushrooms totaly satisfies me. Or occasional pizza with beer . I'm extra thin at that.
Hey I am not complaining, it is adding starch to that list that creates the problem. You gotta pick one on Ray Peat, sugar OR starch NOT BOTH or yes you will get fat. Again on my post lose Fat Not Pounds you can SEE the difference in my body composition eating starches vs sugar. Eating starches I was "thin" too, it is called "skinny fat". Eating sugar and protein I am strong and still fiting into the same size small.

 

Nomane Euger

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
1,407
If not starches then there is not much left to eat...
Relying on animal foods only is not sustainable, expensive, makes you aggressive (can be confused with energetic).
Meat/proteins cause insulin spikes and grey hair and most adults won't digest milk properly.
Meat eaters suffer teeth decay same way from calcium /phosphorus imbalance

Maya living on the Yucatan peninsula do not brush their teeth, and also have no tooth decay, but their diet is very different from that of the Inuit. The Maya eat primarily beans and corn and rice, and live off of a mostly vegetarian diet.
hi,if starches arnt eaten,there is everything left to eat,fruits,honey,meat,animal fat,eggs,dairy.meat making you aggressive depend of the life conditions of the animal you ate,and wich quantity you ate,and the rest of your diet,from my experience,you can eat from 200 to 400 grammes of meat daily still not be agressive,starchs make me agressive,meat doesnt,same for peoples arround me that i observe.i never had any grey/white hair and i eat meat daily,2021 i went one month where i didnt eat any meat,i got 2 white hairs
 

Jerkboy

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
233
Went without starch for 2 years. I still missed it even after 2 years. Ate beans, white rice, fresh pasta for a few days. Felt better than normal.

What I have found is if your metabolism (thyroid converstion T4->T3) is low you will react to all types of foods. Not just grains.

When your metabolic rate is high you burn through everything quite easily unless eating too much fat (slows oxidation rate) and you will have no side effects from any food unless quantities are super high of a particular food.
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
hi,if starches arnt eaten,there is everything left to eat,fruits,honey,meat,animal fat,eggs,dairy.meat making you aggressive depend of the life conditions of the animal you ate,and wich quantity you ate,and the rest of your diet,from my experience,you can eat from 200 to 400 grammes of meat daily still not be agressive,starchs make me agressive,meat doesnt,same for peoples arround me that i observe.i never had any grey/white hair and i eat meat daily,2021 i went one month where i didnt eat any meat,i got 2 white hairs
And to your point Nomane Euger, starches were graying my hair, from all of their phosphorus and anti-nutrients. I have next to no gray hair now, I don't bleach or dye my hair. Last year when food was harder to get and I was eating more pasta and homemade baked foods, I started getting new graus on top, AND put on some weight. Here is my hair this past march and it is even better now!
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20210417-155019_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20210417-155019_Gallery.jpg
    164.3 KB · Views: 68
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
Went without starch for 2 years. I still missed it even after 2 years. Ate beans, white rice, fresh pasta for a few days. Felt better than normal.

What I have found is if your metabolism (thyroid converstion T4->T3) is low you will react to all types of foods. Not just grains.

When your metabolic rate is high you burn through everything quite easily unless eating too much fat (slows oxidation rate) and you will have no side effects from any food unless quantities are super high of a particular food.
I don't react badly starch though whatsoever. I just get gray hair and fat. When I JUST eat starch, and avoid sugar I lean out, but it is "skinny fat", no thanks!
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
Went without starch for 2 years. I still missed it even after 2 years. Ate beans, white rice, fresh pasta for a few days. Felt better than normal.

What I have found is if your metabolism (thyroid converstion T4->T3) is low you will react to all types of foods. Not just grains.

When your metabolic rate is high you burn through everything quite easily unless eating too much fat (slows oxidation rate) and you will have no side effects from any food unless quantities are super high of a particular food.
"Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat production becomes much larger than when equal amounts of sugar and starch are eaten. The obesity itself then becomes an additional physiological factor; the fat cells create something analogous to an inflammatory state. There isn’t anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn’t necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches. For example, fruits have many advantages over grains, besides the difference between sugar and starch. Bread and pasta consumption are strongly associated with the occurrence of diabetes, fruit consumption has a strong inverse association.”-Ray Peat
 
OP
Rinse & rePeat
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
21,516
And then people complain about getting fat :))
o_O I'm not a fussy eater . Bowl of rice with some meat and mushrooms totaly satisfies me. Or occasional pizza with beer . I'm extra thin at that.
“When starch is well cooked, and eaten with some fat and the essential nutrients, it’s safe, except that it’s more likely than sugar to produce fat, and isn’t as effective for mineral balance.” -Ray Peat
 

Vileplume

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
1,697
Location
California
Just yesterday I listened to Peat's "Milk" KMUD interview, where he stated the following, which seems relevant:

When asked about how to maintain high carbon dioxide, Peat said: "The sucrose in fruit or honey, or just plain sugar, is 50% fructose 50% glucose, and it just takes a little fructose to catalyze the more energetic burning of glucose, producing carbon dioxide. So you don't have to eat a pure sugar carbohydrate diet to have optimal carbon dioxide production, but it's okay to avoid starch entirely."

 

Apple

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
1,267
And to your point Nomane Euger, starches were graying my hair, from all of their phosphorus and anti-nutrients. I have next to no gray hair now, I don't bleach or dye my hair. Last year when food was harder to get and I was eating more pasta and homemade baked foods, I started getting new graus on top, AND put on some weight. Here is my hair this past march and it is even better now!
It is not always about foods when it comes to hair.
Sun, stress, physical activity, season of the year, fresh air , sleeping enough, all can have an effect on hair.
When I'm on vacation , despite eating junk foods all day long , cookies, croissants, hot dogs , any kind fastfood... my hair improves a lot too and my weight normalizes, muscle tone improves. Basically antipeat diet
 
Last edited:
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

Similar threads

Replies
37
Views
4K
Deleted member 5487
D
Back
Top Bottom