Is Eating a Peat Diet Instinctual?

[j.]

And, anyhow, I have to disqualify you from this discussion, j.,
because you've already conceded elsewhere
that you have little to no Eros for foods of any description,

Yeah, when even someone who barely cares about what food he is eating, like me, protests when vegetables are served, that indicates there is something seriously wrong with vegetables.

Also, I have eros for foods. I like certain foods more than others. It's just that I am often doing other things and don't think about food.

 

[j.]

Everything is delicious except the liver, and oysters.

I met very fat people who didn't give a damn about health who loved pate. And obviously they didn't do it for the vitamin A. So maybe eating pate instead of liver could make it easier.

 

[kiran]

Actually lettuce tastes pretty good. Both in salad, and cooked in lettuce fried rice.

 

[charlie]

Everything is delicious except the liver, and oysters.

I met very fat people who didn't give a damn about health who loved pate. And obviously they didn't do it for the vitamin A. So maybe eating pate instead of liver could make it easier.

I tried it once, but wasn't that good to me. Maybe I need to try it again.

 

[narouz]

And, anyhow, I have to disqualify you from this discussion, j.,
because you've already conceded elsewhere
that you have little to no Eros for foods of any description,

Yeah, when even someone who barely cares about what food he is eating, like me, protests when vegetables are served, that indicates there is something seriously wrong with vegetables.

Also, I have eros for foods. I like certain foods more than others. It's just that I am often doing other things and don't think about food.

j.-
No, the conclusion I would draw is that
"someone who barely cares about what food he is eating"
is not likely to accurately reflect popular tastes and appetites.

Most people care a lot about what food they eat.
They invest a lot of their desire and sensuality into foods,
even if it is weird food like McDonald's "McRib Sandwich" or a lovely Dominos Avicell Sawdust Pizza. Ha!

We would be much better off if we left off with the tortored qualifications like
"they just eat those salads out of guilt"
or
"they just eat those salads because they've been brainwashed."

When you see masses of people from all over the place, over time,
reliably consuming certain foods in huge amounts ...
When you see cookbooks and television shows selling consistently over time,
and you notice what people salivate over and crave...
these should be regarded, I believe, as objective cultural artifacts about human appetites.
Simply: what humans like to eat.

It is not the Peat diet.

 

[narouz]

Actually lettuce tastes pretty good. Both in salad, and cooked in lettuce fried rice.

Lettuce Fried Rice...Lettuce Fried Rice...
I've never heard of that!
And now I want some.

 

[Sunjoy]

The salad doesnt taste yummy. The dressing on the salad, eggs, cheese, THAT's what taste yummy.

Greens are for cows.

The only way I could ever get down the greens is to do exactly that, drown them with a ton of dressing, eggs, cheese, bacon, strawberries etc.

Or, blend them with copious amounts of fruit to mask their taste after dressing became a no no!

Being a raw vegan (80/10/10 and others) was insane and I've paid a huge price going from that to paleo/primal and back more than once.

I am still very much getting my sea legs doing Peat as best I know how as I'm still learning but wow do I feel a huge difference after just over a week.

 

[narouz]

The salad doesnt taste yummy. The dressing on the salad, eggs, cheese, THAT's what taste yummy.

Greens are for cows.

The only way I could ever get down the greens is to do exactly that, drown them with a ton of dressing, eggs, cheese, bacon, strawberries etc.

Or, blend them with copious amounts of fruit to mask their taste after dressing became a no no!

Being a raw vegan (80/10/10 and others) was insane and I've paid a huge price going from that to paleo/primal and back more than once.

I am still very much getting my sea legs doing Peat as best I know how as I'm still learning but wow do I feel a huge difference after just over a week.

You said "bacon."

Now, there is another possibility I may not have discussed in this thread.
That is:
Peatians may become Peatians self-selectingly
because of their appetites.

This was not the case with me.
But...it is possible.
What I mean is, simply:
The people that become Peatians
do so because they were initially attracted to orange juice, milk, sugar, gelatin, coffee, bone broth, etc.

To them,
that was what made them salivate.
That was The most Desirable, Lustful, Satisfying, Sensual, and Varied diet available on this planet.
And things like bacon, salads, beans, avocados, breads...those foods Sucked.

So people who had that kind of eccentric appetite--
they became Peatians.

And when you asked them what was the most wonderful diet on the planet
that they could possibly imagine,
they said...(surprise!):
orange juice, sugar, milk, gelatin, coffee and bone broth!

And when you asked them
why other humans didn't like those kinds of foods
the self-selecting Peatians said:
1. because those other humans are stoopid
2. because they are brain-washed
3. because their instincts have become perverted
4. because they force themselves to eat the disgusting foods because they think those foods are healthy
5. because they are eating out of guilt, trying to offset their smoking
6. etc etc.

 

[j.]

Simply: what humans like to eat.

It is not the Peat diet.

You can't draw that conclusion because the culture is a huge factor. The only way to test it is having some kid grow up, just putting a bunch of food in front of him, and not ever telling him what's healthy and what isn't.

Sure, if you want to say that what people want to eat in a f*cked up culture is not the Peat diet, you'll be correct.

 

[j.]

The people that become Peatians
do so because they were initially attracted to orange juice, milk, sugar, gelatin, coffee, bone broth, etc.

*cough* chocolate

 

[narouz]

Simply: what humans like to eat.

It is not the Peat diet.

You can't draw that conclusion because the culture is a huge factor. The only way to test it is having some kid grow up, just putting a bunch of food in front of him, and not ever telling him what's healthy and what isn't.

Sure, if you want to say that what people want to eat in a f*cked up culture is not the Peat diet, you'll be correct.

j.-
So...all we have to do to draw correct conclusions about humans and their appetites
is to look only at the cultures that are not "f*cked up."
Okay.
You start us off, j.!

 

[j.]

So...all we have to do to draw correct conclusions about humans and their appetites
is to look only at the cultures that are not "****88 up."

Yes, that would be ideal. If it's not possible right now, it doesn't mean that looking at a f*cked up culture is a valid method for determining what is instinctual.

You start us off, j.!

I'm not an anthropologist to have that knowledge, I just have some vague memories of reading somewhere that some culture who ate mostly animals eagerly ate their organs and gave the muscle meats to the dogs.

 

[narouz]

So...all we have to do to draw correct conclusions about humans and their appetites
is to look only at the cultures that are not "****88 up."

Yes, that would be ideal. If it's not possible right now, it doesn't mean that looking at a ****88 up culture is a valid method for determining what is instinctual.

You start us off, j.!

I'm not an anthropologist to have that knowledge, I just have some vague memories of reading somewhere that some culture who ate mostly animals eagerly ate their organs and gave the muscle meats to the dogs.

Couple of thoughts:

1. Many like to view the native American Indians as a "not f*cked up culture."
I wonder if they ate a Peat diet?

2. Maybe you would point us toward Sally Fallon and the Weston A. Price Foundation stuff.
I think Price travelled to...what was it?...I guess it was non-modern civilizations?
What did those un-f*cked up tribes eat?

 

[j.]

Couple of thoughts:

1. Many like to view the native American Indians as a "not f*cked up culture."
I wonder if they ate a Peat diet?

2. Maybe you would point us toward Sally Fallon and the Weston A. Price Foundation stuff.
I think Price travelled to...what was it?...I guess it was non-modern civilizations?
What did those un-****88 up tribes eat?

More vague recollection: Peat mentioned somewhere, article or interview, that every advanced culture made sugar an important part of their diet.

 

[gretchen]

Regarding veggies, the worst diet I ever tried was the raw food diet, ugh. It started out good, then I was depressed, lethargic, and severely constipated.
To this day I have an aversion to greens because of that diet, cooked or raw. I rarely eat lettuce and never in winter. I really can't digest leaves.

Yes, I totally agree. I was never "100% raw" but ate my share of salad in the 90s and cooked kale in the 2000s. I don't think anyone naturally gravitates towards green vegetables, and all people who say they love them (except you narouz ) are lying hypocrites bent on turning the world in to a yuppie organic garden. It may be time to consider that in light of the fact that there is little nutritional value to vegetables, the obsession with adding them and including them in one's diet is akin to a type of religion; i.e., people believe their lives can be greatly improved and maybe even they will be "saved" if they eat more veggies.

Peat's article on vegetables made sense to me immediately, and not putting them in my cart makes total sense. I never enjoyed buying, storing (they leave little bits of dried stuff all over the fridge) or cooking them, and do not miss them. I am glad we broke up.

When I first researched this diet, I found this website on "why vegetables are evil". I think you might enjoy it:
http://www.rogermwilcox.com/vegetable/veg1.html

I appreciate that exemption, gretchen!
But look: there is more to the Greens Loving phenomenon, I think,
than sheer Health-Food-Type zealotry.
Think about all the greens in "soulfood."
The folks who love soulfood wouldn't seem to be healthfood zealots to me.
On the contrary, they seem the type who eat for taste--health be damned!

And then what about the very widespread appetite for Salads?
All over the world and across all demographics and cuisines, people eat salads.
Now...maybe they are motivated in part by health notions.
But, in my experience, those people Want to eat that salad because it Tastes Yummy.
And makes a lovely, cool, crisp, crunchy counterpoint to other parts of a meal.

Yes, I have thought about the salad thing. It does knock the "everyone hates green veggies" theory down a little....otoh, the theory comes back when you realize that ppl everywhere have digestive issues. They can't tolerate raw vegetables that well which is why they need probiotics and cultured foods.

I thought I should say that I feel bad for posting a link that calls vegetables evil. I may even be wrong for doing so..... Vegetables are not evil , they are wonderful plants grown by the lovely elementals. Still these plants don't want to be eaten, otherwise they wouldn't contain anti nutrients. I am happy to have taken an extended break from them, and would not refuse a salad if offered one.

 

[kiran]

And then what about the very widespread appetite for Salads?
All over the world and across all demographics and cuisines, people eat salads.
Now...maybe they are motivated in part by health notions.
But, in my experience, those people Want to eat that salad because it Tastes Yummy.
And makes a lovely, cool, crisp, crunchy counterpoint to other parts of a meal.

Yes, I have thought about the salad thing. It does knock the "everyone hates green veggies" theory down a little....otoh, the theory comes back when you realize that ppl everywhere have digestive issues. They can't tolerate raw vegetables that well which is why they need probiotics and cultured foods.

I thought I should say that I feel bad for posting a link that calls vegetables evil. I may even be wrong for doing so..... Vegetables are not evil , they are wonderful plants grown by the lovely elementals. Still these plants don't want to be eaten, otherwise they wouldn't contain anti nutrients. I am happy to have taken an extended break from them, and would not refuse a salad if offered one.

It's possible that humans probably eat salads for the same reason that dogs eat grass. That is, to help with some sort of gut issues. Im guessing that lettuce (say) is one of the less harmful fibers out there, and you can probably get the good bacteria to outcompete the bad by eating lettuce, generating an effect similar to probiotics.

It's also possible that people can deliberately modulate thyroid down by eating greens.

Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[narouz]

Coming back to j.'s idea,
that we can't think productively about food and instinct
unless we observe cultures that are "not f**ked up"...

As I think about it,
the Weston Price research and conclusions about
health and diet involved non-modern cultures, right?
Maybe "pre-industrial" cultures might be the better handle?

As I recall, I think Price sought out pre-industrial, kinduv primitive cultures/tribes
and looked at what they ate and how their health was.

So j., I guess that would be the model to investigate your hypothesis,
if by "not f**ked up,' you mean "primitive" or "pre-industrial."

I'll have to research it,
but what I recall mainly is that Price believed that the absence of refined sugar
was the key--or one of the keys--to the dental health of those primitives.

 

[OrangeJuiceManiac]

w/ the exception of pasta, and bread....everything that is part of the peat diet are foods that i consumed on a daily basis as a kid....ice cream every night (coincidentally haagan dazs), milk, cheese, eggs, french fries.....pizza, chicken, burgers, poptarts were the foods that werent peat approved

 

[narouz]

I don't think we as Peatians should feel obligated to believe or to argue
that a Peat diet is both
1. the healthiest
and
2. the most instinctual.

In fact, I think we should be very wary of making that assumption.

Because we dig Peat and are persuaded by his nutritional ideas
most of us hope or even claim to know
that the foods he recommends are the healthiest.

But as far as I know,
Peat never claims that his healthy foods are also the most delicious foods available to man.
Nor (is there a difference?) does he claim that eating his healthy foods is instinctual, to my knowledge.

It may be that becoming Peatian
reflects a self-selection process:
those who adore a diet consisting almost exclusively
of orange juice, milk, gelatin, sugar, coffee, eggs, liver, etc
may've selected the Peat diet because it matched their appetites.

And those self-selectors may then make the leap, the assumption,
that they best of all humans on the planet
are most in touch with their natural appetites--their instinctual appetites,
not duped or perverted by modern culture and propaganda, etc.
The are thus blessed somewhat exclusively to be leading A Pure Life.

I do mock a bit, but my point is a serious one:
Pride. Ego. Certainty.
Aren't these human temptations likely motivations
for us to assume
that the Peat diet is the most healthy diet and the most instinctual/delicious?

Simply put, we may like to believe that
because it is the most self-flattering thing to believe.

But I don't believe it is supported by the objective evidence of human appetites for food.

If the hypothesis is correct,
that Peatians self-select because they were naturally attracted to the healthy Peatian foods,
then it is important for those Peatians not to project the nature of their appetites
onto all other humans.
It is important for them not to mistake their own dietary desires for all other humans.
Just because self-selected Peat food lovers create a group
and congratulate each other on their natural, pure, instinctual appetites,
doesn't make that particular appetite an objective, general truth about all human appetite.
To describe that
it is necessary to step back and objectively analyze the evidence of what human beings
tend to want to eat
across cultures and times.

Another kind of way we can go astray in our thinking and conclusions
is to self-propagandize.
That is, let's consider that perhaps many Peatians, like myself,
did not become Peatians because they were attracted to the deliciousness of the diet.

Now, for those Peatians there are a couple of main ways one can view one's Peatianity.
1. You can believe you're trying to eat the most healthy foods
while at the same time acknowledging, as a rather sad and discordant fact of life,
that the Peat diet clearly requires considerable will power
because it requires one to give up many delicious--if unhealthy--foods.
or
2. You can find that the above way of thinking is too sad,
and so you can simply brainwash yourself into believing that
there are no foods outside the Peat diet that you want.
You express this to other Peatians, and they echo you back.
It's True!
The Peat diet satisfies all possible human sensual and instinctive wants!
We are the smartest, most fulfilled, purest, most instinctual, most sensually satisfied
humans on the planet!!
We live in perfect harmony, we possess certainty, and we feel only sorrow or disgust
for other humans who have not discovered The True Path.

 

[charlie]

Greens=Blah, need copious amounts of instinctual stuff to cover it up. We are TOLD these greens are good for us, when only ruminants are supposed to eat it.

Bacon Bits= food that would be wonderful for you if we didnt feed them grains, so yes, instinctual I would say.

Cheese= Again, food that would be really good for you if modern day BS didnt mess it up, so again, instincts rule again.

Salad Dressing= Sugar, for the most part people are gravitating towards the sugar which again, is instinctual.

Eggs= Almost everyone I know eats eggs, even the people who dont care about being healthy. Wow, another instinctual ingredient.

Croutons=Well, you cant win them all.

Fruit= Lot of people love fruit on their salads, again, great instincts.

My point being, I think we got the instincts, I just think we need a little guidance to steer around the BS.