Peat Vs Paleo - Similarities And Differences

you

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Let's discuss the topic of a Paleo diet

First, lets look at the similarities

Both diets: No grains, no legumes, no seed oils, eat animals head-to-tail, prefer grass-fed meat and free-range eggs, both like gelatin

Then gray areas

Sugar, dairy: Paleo dieters generally shy away from sugar and dairy, but they're not 100% outlawed, while on a Peat diet, they're a major component and encouraged

Now parts where disagreements abound

Nuts, seeds: Paleo dieters generally are quite a fan of these and usually eat too much
Meat: Paleo dieters generally seem to eat too much meat and they like their pork+poultry
Vegetables: Paleo dieters LOVE their veggies, a stereotypical paleo meal is broccoli+steak
Fish: High PUFA fish on paleo

So, with these comparisons, we can see that the two diets are pretty similar. In fact, I'd say the Paleo diet is the closest popular diet to a Peat diet. I'd even go as far to say that a Peat diet is a Paleo diet, brought to it's logical conclusion. If we look at history, we can see that humans have been hunting fruit and honey for thousands upon thousands of years. A Peat diet also emphasizes food thats are made for consumption like eggs, fruit, honey and dairy. While a Paleo has more of an emphasis on foods that aren't made to eat, like nuts, seeds and specifically, vegetables.

What are your thoughts on a Paleo diet?
 

Suikerbuik

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How can we bridge the gap between these two diets?
Is there a gap that needs to be bridged?

Do you really think paleo diet is polular by the way? At least here in The Netherlands barely anyone I know of is following a paleo diet. It think they just blog a lot and they're mostly the same.

Many people don't do well on paleo. Paleo is based on assumptioms mainly. While a Peat inspired diet is based on biochemistry.
 
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you

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Suikerbuik said:
Do you really think paleo diet is polular by the way?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's all relative, in comparison to a Peat diet, Paleo is a HUGELY popular diet, at least 100 times more popular.

Suikerbuik said:
Is there a gap that needs to be bridged?.

Yes, I think so. Diets are for health, including Paleo and it's quite clear that for health, a Peat diet is superior to Paleo. A Peat diet is probably more Paleo than the canon Paleo diet itself, I'm very doubtful of claims that in paleolithic times fruits were consumed little, non-root/tuber vegetables were consumed a lot, high-PUFA fish were consumed a lot and nuts+seeds were consumed a lot.
 
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Ray Peat is about understanding the body through physiology and providing whatever nutrition it needs to sustain itself. In practise, Peat is about increasing the metabolic rate.

Paleo is about understanding how our bodies evolved and observing the nutrition available. In practise, paleo is about eating the foods available during the longest static period of our evolution with the reasoning that our bodies are most adapted to such foods.

Put simply:

Paleo: "what did our ancestors eat? I should eat whatever they ate."

Peat: "how does our body work? I should eat whatever keeps my body at its best."


Trying to discuss the two via diets is useless. They're both coming at it from different paradigms.
 
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cantstoppeating said:
Ray Peat is about understanding the body through physiology and providing it with whatever nutrition it needs to sustain itself. In practise, Peat is about increasing the metabolic rate.

Paleo is about understanding how our bodies evolved and observing the nutrition available. In practise, paleo is about eating the foods available during the longest static period of our evolution with the reasoning that our bodies are most adapted to such foods.

Put simply:

Paleo: "what did our ancestors eat? I should eat whatever they ate."

Peat: "how does our body work? I should eat whatever keeps my body at its best."


Trying to discuss the two via diets is useless. They're both coming at it from different paradigms.

Except paleo dieters deny that the paleo diet is a diet to reenanact the diet eaten in the paleolithic times.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Paleo/comments ... lifestyle/

paleo is a logical framework applied to modern humans, not a historical reenactment

https://www.reddit.com/r/Paleo/comments ... _based_on/

Standard straw man argument. Andrew Badenoch said it best, "paleo is a logical framework applied to modern humans, not a historical reenactment."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Paleo/comments ... ontroversy

Agreed. Paleo is not and cannot be a historical reenactment. It's about using the history of our species to begin thinking about what a healthy lifestyle for human beings might look like--then testing those ideas through scientific research and personal experimentation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Paleo/comments ... ecreating/

No, because I am on the Paleo diet for health reasons (the foods I no longer eat were making me very, very sick), and I'm not a zealot about macros or reenactment. Nor do I need to lose weight. Therefore, when the holidays roll around, or I'm simply feeling self-indulgent for whatever reason, it's nice to have easy access to recipes for "treat" foods that won't make me violently ill.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Paleo/comments ... asionally/

https://www.paleohacks.com/paleo-reenactment

I know as well as pretty much everybody else that the purpose of the paleo diet is metabolism, not reenactment

http://anivair.com/druid/node/946

Paleo is not a historical re-enactment. Period

https://mystaranise.wordpress.com/2015/ ... enactment/

We’re not going for paleo reenactment here. We look at things from an ancestral perspective to generate questions and hypotheses and give us some ideas about what may or may not make sense…
 
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There's nothing to discuss. There's no gap to bridge. Either way it's clear you don't understand what Peat is actually about.
 
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you

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cantstoppeating said:
There's nothing to discuss. There's no gap to bridge. Either way it's clear you don't understand what Peat is actually about.

Calm down before you cut yourself on that edge there, bucko. But seriously, it's alright, friend. I'm sorry that you're so upset. :rolling
 
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No worries. In anticipation of the ridiculousness of this thread, I made sure to take an extra dose of l-Theanine and OJ.
 

uuy8778yyi

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you said:
Let's discuss the topic of a Paleo diet


What are your thoughts on a Paleo diet?

paleo :
sugar is bad. paleo man didn't eat sugar. Typed from my Ipad from an aeroplane.

peat :
sugar - not a problem
dairy - not a problem
meat - not a problem
nuts/seeds/grains/legums/avocados/olives and oils of the aforementioned . oily fish/vegetables -the problem
 

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I think the topic is good if we think in terms of "what do we eat".
We can compare ANY diets in terms of ingredients cannot we?
I checked out and read that Peat says to favor fruits, and sugar ONLY when good fruits are not available.
Paleo favor fruits, and this is a common point, and the best IMO.

Peat does suppress the newest types of food that were brought into our diets.
The only real disagreement I see is about PUFA contents and dairies.

I do eat dairies ONLY when they are enough "paleo" for me!
I mean that sterilized cow milk is a no for me.
Anything from the good local goat cheese that I have access to, is fine.

And I make the guess that some nuts could be ok if we had not eaten that much PUFA before in our life. It is also about not eating the same food all year long. Let the body rest! I do this for egs in winter for exemple (when there are no good eggs available because hens are resting themselves).
I also think that inuit people had ways to conpensate the high omega 6 of their diet, and that is still better than diying of hunger....
Man is very adaptative!

Ho BTW another common point:
paleo is the way to look for a good diet through the best possible logic without a lab and deep research. It is about logic, and they got quite close to Peat's result, so, not so bad!
Then, if this is an excuse for some to indulge into a lot of red muscle eating, then....
 

Dutchie

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Suikerbuik said:
How can we bridge the gap between these two diets?
Is there a gap that needs to be bridged?

Do you really think paleo diet is polular by the way? At least here in The Netherlands barely anyone I know of is following a paleo diet. It think they just blog a lot and they're mostly the same.

Many people don't do well on paleo. Paleo is based on assumptioms mainly. While a Peat inspired diet is based on biochemistry.

That's not entirely true...
Virtually every magazine these days,writes about Paleo. (I even saw a Dutch Paleo magazine)
And I hear so many guys in the gym talking to eachother about Paleo,how they should eat more protein&fat &less carbs in order to get lean etc.
It's starting to become a trend....so we're just very much behind on a country like The US.;) (Then again,when aren't we...it's the same with CrossFit,it's now getting more attention and living here down South means that trends in the North,start to become known/trendy about 2years later.Basically when it's not a trend anymore in the rest of the country...and the world for that matter. xD )

The problem is that Paleo&Primal has&can be divided in so many subcategories,Peatish being one of them,over the years. That it's unreasonable to say that Paleo is a failure and bad,although I always found the name stupid.
It's the very first version of Paleo,the Cordain version (Faileo),that could be viewed as problematic and usually is what magazines pick up on as a Paleo diet bc they're too lazy to research into it further.
Personally I view Paleo as a broad template of (minimally) unprocessed natural foods,in which every individual should seek their own 'diet' to thrive on. (Which admittedly is a freakin' hard thing to do with all the guru&'scientific' chatter interfering)
 

Suikerbuik

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Not living in the north ;). Guess it's matter of definition indeed. From what I still remember considering paleo it was no dairy, no (pseudo-)grains and easy on fruits. As said barely anyone I know of is really following that diet. If they do, most cheat or still have carb refeed days.

how they should eat more protein&fat &less carbs in order to get lean etc.
Less carbs or grains, moderate dairy intake I don't consider true paleo. But yeah the trend of temporary reducing carbs and going crazy on chicken is obviously visible in the body building spheres.
 

Dutchie

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Suikerbuik said:
Not living in the north ;). Guess it's matter of definition indeed. From what I still remember considering paleo it was no dairy, no (pseudo-)grains and easy on fruits. As said barely anyone I know of is really following that diet. If they do, most cheat or still have carb refeed days.

how they should eat more protein&fat &less carbs in order to get lean etc.
Less carbs or grains, moderate dairy intake I don't consider true paleo. But yeah the trend of temporary reducing carbs and going crazy on chicken is obviously visible in the body building spheres.

Ah well, The North,West and East....the South is always the last to catch up.;)

Yeah,that's the Paleo 1.0 version you're referring to,the one made popular by Cordain. And from what I've seen The Whole 30 is kinda inspired on those foods to start with as well. (Imo they have some weird thougthpatterns about approved foods,mostly for Vegetarians)

I think all the foods within Primal(&PHD) template are healthy to choose from and Peatish foods fit in there as well,given that one doesn't necessarily strictly adheres to some of the recommendations/outlines made by any of the above guru's,I think it's possible to assimilate a healthy/succesful diet out of this blend since they're all somewhat similar in food choices. It's left to the individual to discover what ratio's and types of food work best (dairy/no dairy/fermented dairy,starches vs. sugars,amount of protein/fat/carbs etc.)

Ari Whitten has written a (Kindle/PDF?) book,which I think is kind of along those lines from what I got from the reviews. (I haven't read it,though I'd be interested to,but don't have an e-Reader nor the luxury of spending cash on it.)
 

ro.

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[moderator edit: threads merged]

I thought it might be useful for people new to peat to see where the 2 lifestyles converge and diverge. Based on my limited research here are the similarities and differences i can find, feel free to add others/correct me (copied some stuff from criticalmas.com).


Similarities

· No grains

· No legumes

· No seed oils

· Eat animals head-to-tail

· Prefer grass-fed meat and free-range eggs

· Both like gelatine

· Both like sat fat

· Both are indifferent to cholesterol

· Both like offal and bone broth

· Both like salt



Grey areas

· Paleo dieters generally shy away from sugar and dairy, but they're not 100% outlawed, while on a Peat diet, they're a major component and encouraged

Differences

· Nuts, seeds: Paleo dieters generally are quite a fan of these

· Meat: Paleo dieters generally seem to eat too much meat and they like their pork+poultry

· Vegetables: Paleo dieters LOVE their veggies, a stereotypical paleo meal is broccoli+steak

· Fish: High PUFA fish on paleo

· Starch: okay with paleo, not peat

· Meat: ruminant only with peat, all with paleo

· Heart rate: paleo prefer low, peat prefer high

· Fermented food: paleo like fermented foods very much, peaters don’t

· Omega 6: both bad

· Omega 3: paleo good, peat bad

· Serotonin: probably good on paleo, bad with peat

· Stress: Avoided in all forms with peat, certain types (hormetic) are good
 

dfspcc20

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The overall mindset is much different as well. Paleo typically holds the past as being the gold standard- if pre-agricultural cultures were doing something, it must be good and we should try to emulate it. The Peat approach doesn't completely throw away the value of the past and what appeared to work then, but it's more based on experimental evidence, both on a personal level and through controlled studies.
 

Kasper

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Another big difference, probiotic and prebiotics good in paleo land, bad in peat land.
 

Kasper

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· Serotonin: probably good on paleo, bad with peat

This seems to gradually change, mercola was lately interviewing someone, that explained to mercola that serotonin in the gut seems to cause inflammation there, and that a mice study showed that by blocking serotonin in the gut, the inflammation completely goes away. So there seems to be some hope here.
 

dfspcc20

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Also, the primary argument from Paleo (as far as I remember) is that evolution takes a *long* time, and we couldn't have possibly evolved to thrive on "modern" foods yet. That might be true in the neo-Darwinist story, but not Lamarck or other evolutionary theories.
 
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Ray Peat has no "versus" and is also not a "diet". Also, "no pain no gain" means paleo thinks stress is good.
 

XPlus

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hmmmmm...
Some of those might fall more on the grey side than the other two categories.
A diet rich in grains, meats, fish, vegetables, nuts and starch may not be ideal in the general sense but that depends on the specific food and personal tolerance.
For example, some people can process rice very well, macadamias have low PUFAs compared to other nuts and some vegetables can be a good source of vitamins and minerals when well cooked (and tolerated).
 

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