Low histamine diet

[wayney]

I have issues with allergies (pollen, grass, fur animals and some foods).
When I started with the Ray Peat diet like 2 years ago I got a lot of allergic issue, for example really stuffed nose.

Now 2 years after following this diet I still feel allergic and I do not think that orange juice and a lot of other fruits and juices ain't good for me.
I get a lot of energy from the diet but it feels bad in another way, so I think that I need to try something new.

I recently found this site: Mast Cell 360, LLC

The low histamine food list on this site is really interesting:

Low Histamine Foods List for MCAS and Histamine Intolerance

Clear, researched information and a low histamine foods list (also include lectins and oxalates.) This make the low histamine diet easy!

mastcell360.com

For example she thinks that people with histamine issues should avoid beef (almost all beef is aged, that makes it very high histamine).
Also avoid collagen, bone broth etc.

I always found beef and bone broth as an issue (along with a lot of other foods).

She recommends the following meats: "Choose pasture-raised, frozen chicken, pork, lamb, mutton, and turkey".

Low Histamine Meat Handling Tips – Mast Cell 360

With Histamine Intolerance or Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, avoid common mistakes and use these tips to keep and prepare low histamine meat.

mastcell360.com

I've always found that pork work well for me, I eat really lean parts.

Is it really an issue eating pork/chicken if it is just lean meat with no fat?

Also, don't you think that it is a lot of members on the forum having issues with histamine since eating Ray Peat diet which is really high in histamine (for example drinking massive amounts of OJ)?

Would be interesting to hear what knowledgeable members like @Hans and others thinks of this.

 

[johnysummer]

Calcium/phosphate > 1. Thats probably all you need.

 

[Vileplume]

I started developing hot flashes around January 2021, and while I'm still not totally sure what caused them, I suspect histamine/mast cell activation the likely cause.

At the time, I was using:
-NDT thyroid (which since it's desiccated, dried meat product, I believe it's likely much higher in histamine than other thyroid products)*
-cheese (high histamine)
-powdered gelatin (high histamine)*
-orange juice (activates histamines but apparently not itself high in histamines, and I actually noticed that orange juice did not trigger hot flashes directly).
-meat
-tap water (until I learned from @Rinse & rePeat that fluoride-rich tap water could trigger a histamine response)

* = I observed hot flashes, on multiple occasions, almost immediately from eating these foods.

I now eliminated all of the above from my diet, favoring the lower-histamine milk and eggs as my primary protein sources, along with more sugar and various fruits. No more cheese, gelatin, meat, or NDT. I use cynoplus instead of NDT. I still get hot from the thyroid, but it's not heat waves around my neck like before, so I no longer have the hot flashes.

But also, increasing my calcium:phosphate ratio lately with more milk and less meat could contribute a lot too, like @johnysummer said.

 

[Elize]

If you look at posts by Redsun and me you can find a lot of information.

 

[Elize]

If you look at posts by Redsun and me you can find a lot of information.

 

[theordinarydude]

IS there a way to counter Histamin while still eating an RP diet?

 

[wayney]

Calcium/phosphate > 1. Thats probably all you need.

Okay, if I understand right there is around 200 mg phosphorus in 100 grams of pork.
Maybe I eat around 500 grams of meat per day, that would mean around 1000 mg phosphorus.
Usually I eat around 1500-2000 mg of calcium, so the ratio should be good.

So as long as the ratio is good it's safe? What about the pufa in chicken/pork?

 

[wayney]

I started developing hot flashes around January 2021, and while I'm still not totally sure what caused them, I suspect histamine/mast cell activation the likely cause.

At the time, I was using:
-NDT thyroid (which since it's desiccated, dried meat product, I believe it's likely much higher in histamine than other thyroid products)*
-cheese (high histamine)
-powdered gelatin (high histamine)*
-orange juice (activates histamines but apparently not itself high in histamines, and I actually noticed that orange juice did not trigger hot flashes directly).
-meat
-tap water (until I learned from @Rinse & rePeat that fluoride-rich tap water could trigger a histamine response)

* = I observed hot flashes, on multiple occasions, almost immediately from eating these foods.

I now eliminated all of the above from my diet, favoring the lower-histamine milk and eggs as my primary protein sources, along with more sugar and various fruits. No more cheese, gelatin, meat, or NDT. I use cynoplus instead of NDT. I still get hot from the thyroid, but it's not heat waves around my neck like before, so I no longer have the hot flashes.

But also, increasing my calcium:phosphate ratio lately with more milk and less meat could contribute a lot too, like @johnysummer said.

Okay, thanks!

I can't eat any milk products and I do not want to eat too many eggs (I'm not sure if I tolerate them so well).

It's pretty hard to get a food list that fits with low histamine, not eating nuts, vegetables etc and also can't tolerate milk products.

I end up with this list:

• Rice
• Potatoes
• Carrots
• Garlic
• Onions
• Turnips
• Apples
• Blueberries
• Kiwi
• Mango
• Passionfruit
• Pear
• Pomegranate
• Watermelon
• Chicken
• Lamb
• Pork
• Eggs (small amounts)
• Ghee
• Olive oil (small amounts)
• Salt

I need to have some form of meat so I will have to eat pork, chicken and lamb if I going to get enough calories and protein.

 

[wayney]

If you look at posts by Redsun and me you can find a lot of information.

Thanks!

 

[Hans]

I have issues with allergies (pollen, grass, fur animals and some foods).
When I started with the Ray Peat diet like 2 years ago I got a lot of allergic issue, for example really stuffed nose.

Now 2 years after following this diet I still feel allergic and I do not think that orange juice and a lot of other fruits and juices ain't good for me.
I get a lot of energy from the diet but it feels bad in another way, so I think that I need to try something new.

I recently found this site: Mast Cell 360, LLC

The low histamine food list on this site is really interesting:

Low Histamine Foods List for MCAS and Histamine Intolerance

Clear, researched information and a low histamine foods list (also include lectins and oxalates.) This make the low histamine diet easy!

mastcell360.com

For example she thinks that people with histamine issues should avoid beef (almost all beef is aged, that makes it very high histamine).
Also avoid collagen, bone broth etc.

I always found beef and bone broth as an issue (along with a lot of other foods).

She recommends the following meats: "Choose pasture-raised, frozen chicken, pork, lamb, mutton, and turkey".

Low Histamine Meat Handling Tips – Mast Cell 360

With Histamine Intolerance or Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, avoid common mistakes and use these tips to keep and prepare low histamine meat.

mastcell360.com

I've always found that pork work well for me, I eat really lean parts.

Is it really an issue eating pork/chicken if it is just lean meat with no fat?

Also, don't you think that it is a lot of members on the forum having issues with histamine since eating Ray Peat diet which is really high in histamine (for example drinking massive amounts of OJ)?

Would be interesting to hear what knowledgeable members like @Hans and others thinks of this.

Oranges actually aren't a high source of histamine. Oranges are a good source of vitamin C, which can help with high histamine. Did you juice your own or buy from the store?

 

[johnysummer]

Okay, if I understand right there is around 200 mg phosphorus in 100 grams of pork.
Maybe I eat around 500 grams of meat per day, that would mean around 1000 mg phosphorus.
Usually I eat around 1500-2000 mg of calcium, so the ratio should be good.

So as long as the ratio is good it's safe? What about the pufa in chicken/pork?

What are your calcium sources ? You have to take into account that calcium sources also have phosphorus content in them. Milk for example has phorphorus also, but is lower to calcium so its a positive analogy food. If you eat 500g of meat per day there goes your problem. No way you meet the right ratio with so much meat unless you supplement 1.5 or more of pure calcium which I think is bad strategy.

Do you use chronometer ?

 

[wayney]

Oranges actually aren't a high source of histamine. Oranges are a good source of vitamin C, which can help with high histamine. Did you juice your own or buy from the store?

I bought from the store - made from concentrate.

Better to juice my own?

Whats your take on eating pork and chicken if calcium/phosphate ratio is fine and I only eat lean parts with very little fat on them?

 

[wayney]

What are your calcium sources ? You have to take into account that calcium sources also have phosphorus content in them. Milk for example has phorphorus also, but is lower to calcium so its a positive analogy food. If you eat 500g of meat per day there goes your problem. No way you meet the right ratio with so much meat unless you supplement 1.5 or more of pure calcium which I think is bad strategy.

Do you use chronometer ?

I use eggshell calcium. Can't eat milk products.

I need the meat to get enough calories and protein as I do not want to eat large amounts of eggs and can't drink milk.

2000 mg of calcium coming from eggshell way too much?

No I don't, maybe I should try it.

 

[SamYo123]

Oranges actually aren't a high source of histamine. Oranges are a good source of vitamin C, which can help with high histamine. Did you juice your own or buy from the store?

oranges are citrus and citrus is high histamine

 

[Hans]

I bought from the store - made from concentrate.

Better to juice my own?

Whats your take on eating pork and chicken if calcium/phosphate ratio is fine and I only eat lean parts with very little fat on them?

I prefer fresh juice for sure.
Yeah those meats should be fine.

 

[Hans]

oranges are citrus and citrus is high histamine

Webmd must be wrong then.

 

[Elize]

Even fresh juice of any citrus is high histamine

 

[youngsinatra]

I fixed my histamine intolerance by increasing dietary copper, retinol and the usage of whole-food vitamin C complex supplement in roughly 2-3 months.

Over time I actually became histapenic (low serum histamine levels) and needed to stop my protocol.

Good luck.

 

[Elize]

Which supplement did you use for the vitamin c? Thanks so much

Oyster and shellfish are histamine liberating and trigger mast cell activation with me

 

[wayney]

I prefer fresh juice for sure.
Yeah those meats should be fine.

Okay, thanks!