Things that I've learned from Peat-ing 75 days...

jaketthomas

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I'm at 2 1/2 months, since I was introduced to this Ray Peat diet. In that time, I've started to connect some dots.

For me and my body, Orange Juice doesn't work. Gives me heartburn/indigestion or colitis about 90% of the time I consume it. I'm a Blood Type O, and I naturally have very high levels of stomach acid. Dr. D'Adamo recommends avoiding OJ for Type O, because of the acidity. I guarantee Ray Peat is not a Blood Type O. Ditto for coffee. Too acidic, throws off my entire GI tract. Ray Peat suggests coffee contains magnesium, which is true in the ground form, but the magnesium isn't very soluble, and not much gets into the final brewed product. So ultimately, there's not many benefits to drinking coffee, except for the minute amount of vitamins and the caffeine in it. It DOES decrease iron absorption in the intestines, but so does virtually ANYTHING with caffeine. Tea, cola, yerba mate, etc.

The Orange Juice suggestions are because of the salicylic acid it contains. That's Peat's main reason for suggesting it. However, Grape Juice contains MORE salicylic acid than OJ, without the hearburn and GI upset. Grape Juice is also excellent for the liver. For anyone having the same problems with OJ (which are a lot of you), I would suggest switching to 100% Grape Juice.

As far as the coffee goes, I've replaced the coffee with Tea; various kinds. Still trying to determine which is best for my body, but I'm doing much better on Tea than with coffee. Coffee gave me the same negative effects as OJ.

Now, onto the diet itself... as long as you avoid wheat/gluten, and don't go crazy on estrogenic, goitrogenic, and PUFA foods, it's really not that big of a deal what you eat. This is what I've found. I've been super, duper strict on the "Peat Approved" foods, and I feel absolutely NO better than when I just eat "clean" foods. I mean, some of you have taken this diet to the extreme... Gummi Bears and Milk as a meal? Seriously? There are certain foods I won't touch, like soy, all kinds of beans, any food with gums or artificial sweeteners, cruciferous vegetables and such, but other foods, so long as they're not too offensive, aren't that bad. Like, avoiding blueberries because they have tiny little microscopic seeds in them? Or Figs? They're powerhouse foods!

My body temp continues to rise. Started off around 96.8-97.0. Now I'm steady 98-ish. Still not totally there yet, but I don't expect my 20+ years of low body temperature to revolve itself in 3 months.
 

cliff

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Interesting observations.

What kind of OJ were you doing if you don't mind me asking?

I agree avoiding berries or figs because of the seeds is taking it a little far but if you are gonna eat a lot of them it could be a concern because of the intestinal irritation.
 

jaketthomas

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I have tried OJ any which way. Fresh juiced, fresh squeezed, pasteurized, organic, conventional, you name it. Same result, every time. Everybody is different. From what I've read 40-60% of the population will have these same problems with OJ and coffee.

I wouldn't eat blackberries or raspberries because of the seeds, but blueberries and figs are very soothing for the bowels. Figs are one of the most beneficial fruits in existence for our intestines.
 

Isadora

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Very good idea to post this, jaketthomas!

I've been pEating for about the same time and I'm a 0 blood type as well.

However, I had no problem with OJ or coffee, on the contrary, they're like this wonder fuel for me, all day long! All OJ was fine, from fresh-squeezed to store-bought Tropicana or local store's brand or even pasteurized, organic or not. Coffee, again, all worked fine, from percolated with lots of milk and sugar to espresso.

I cannot say the same about milk, unfortunately. I replaced it with cheese and even so I am wondering if this agrees with me. Overall, too much animal protein, I'd say, too much tryptophan, maybe?

I'm on the second day of totally avoiding ruminant-derived products, I was that fed up with them! And while doing this unexpected "ruminant detox", I doubled on OJ and coffee, like I needed the acid! I also cooked a Tom Yum soup (shrimp, scallops and coconut milk with lots of lime, again for craved acid) and had that as the only other food.

So, as far as stomach acidity goes, I think we're all built differently and blood type may not be the answer...

I wonder why you'd do better on grape juice rather than OJ, to me they register as equally (in)offensive in terms of acidity? Interesting...
 

Kelly

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I've had many similar experiences. I find if I'm super strict Peat I feel worse because I'm obsessing about food. If I just follow the basic guidelines, I feel better. I still have some issues, so I'm sure some of these foods aren't perfect for me, but oh well.

Really interesting about oj. I don't have any heartburn from it but it often doesn't taste good to me. I thought grape juice would have alot less magnesium, but it looks like it only has a little less. 25 mg compared to 27 mg. I'll be picking some up I think.

I hate the taste of coffee. I drink tea instead. I love blueberries and peaches. Many of the fruits Peat recommend are impossible to find around here.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!
 

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key

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"Peter D'Adamo's reasoning is based on speculative inferences from such "facts" as that type O is the oldest blood type. It isn't. A is the oldest blood type. Studies in humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos show that alleles coding for blood type A are the most ancient version of the ABO blood group. This trait was shared prior to the evolutionary split between chimpanzees and hominids five to six million years ago. B blood type split from A about 3.5 million years ago and O blood type split from A about 2.5 million years ago. From this error regarding the age of type O, D'Adamo reasons that people with type O blood should eat the kind of diet the earliest humans ate: one rich in fat and protein."
http://www.skepdic.com/bloodtypediet.html
 

frustrated

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I don't doubt that you had a bad reaction to orange juice. But your justification, the blood type diet, is pure broscience.
 

Jenn

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If you can't handle OJ and coffee, you have a very poor stomach lining...and you right, a lot of people are in the same boat. It's a "use it or lose it" thing. We started not with straight OJ, but with half or a quarter OJ and club soda or seltzer/mineral water.
 

Mittir

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It is not the Caffeine in tea, coffee and cocoa that blocks iron absorption, it is the polyphenols.
Unlike tea,Coffee increases progesterone. Coffee is also excellent for liver. There are tons of studies that shows benefits of coffee. Tea is also rich in fluoride.

RP mentioned aromatase inhibitors in oranges as beneficial and there are good portions of potassium and magnesium in orange juice. If you compare nutritional data of different fruit juices you will see the difference.

Milk, Sugar and gelatin are huge part of RP suggestions. These are very therapeutic foods. There is nothing wrong with making a meal out of sucrose, gelatin and milk. Ray Peat has separate articles on sugar, gelatine and milk.
 

Primal2Peat

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Great post Jake, I've had similar issues.

I have a history of ulcerative colitis but I got it under control by drinking raw grass-fed milk, and eliminating grains about 3 years ago.

I've only been experimenting with Peat eating for about 6 months. (Which, for me just meant increasing my honey intake, dropping some fat (but still pretty high-fat) and dropping eggs, fish, and vegetables juices, and eating less muscle meat. Oh, and adding gelatin, coffee, and orange juice.

I've had your same problems with coffee and oj, but found that if I drink my coffee with my full fat milk, honey and gelatin, it goes down with absolutely no heartburn.

Same with orange juice. If I sip it in little bits, OR mix it with my milk, it goes down just fine.

These are just my suggestions. I think my digestive system needs the fat molecules from the milk to protect it from the acids and whatnots in other foods.

For my coffee, I mix a double-shot of dark espresso with 4 oz of full fat milk (RAW not steamed, steamed was giving me heartburn) 1 tbsp raw honey, 1 tbsp gelatin.

I usually drink two of these while eating raw liver, and maybe some extra honey with the liver.

Cheese and oj will give me diarrhea, but not milk and oj.
 

Asimov

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I echo the "Type O and no problems with OJ" sentiment.

It is true that type O blood people are more prone to ulcers (h. hylori really enjoys eating one of the unique proteins in type O blood) but your issue isn't necessarily blood type, more like "your gut is overrun with heliobacter pylori and you need to get that treated" issue.

I think your unique issues and solutions are probably because you have an undiagnosed ulcer, and less acidity food/beverage (grape juice as opposed to OJ, tea as opposed to coffee) are working around the problem, but not solving it. I recommend some lactobacillus to try to fight off the baddies in the tummy.
 

burtlancast

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I used as well to avoid coffee as it was completely upsetting my digestive tract. But with a good amount of cream added, i almost don't notice any bad effects. And i have to admit it does wake up your mind.

But i can drink it only in the morning, or i won't be able to fall asleep at night.

As a previous poster mentioned, tea, especially green and black tea ( the worst) are packed with fluoride. But this fluoride content varies a lot with the brands, altough one is unable to use this info.

It's a pity, because studies show a protective effect of green tea over heart attacks and some cancers.

Never had any acidity problems with OJ.
 

Imonaquest

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Interesting observations, Jake.

I too have began questioning a lot of the suggestions I've seen on this diet. This diet does NOT seem to be working for me, as religious I've been with it. I too seem to be having issues with coffee and OJ. I'm convinced both coffee and OJ give me anxiety attacks. Why, I'm not sure. I don't know enough about this stuff to have a valid explanation. I just know what my body is telling me.

Right now, my anxiety disorder is worse than its ever been in my adult life. I'm trying to find out why. Maybe I take OJ and coffee out of my diet like you did and see if it works like it did for you.
 

jaketthomas

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I tried coffee in virtually every way imaginable, friends. Half and half, heavy cream, whole milk, 2%, skim milk, just plain with no milk, with a little sugar, with lots of sugar, in espresso form, weak brew, strong brew, normal brew, organic, conventional, instant, shade grown, I could go on and on. Pretty much the same result every time. I will agree with Burtlancast that I definitely react better in the presence of a lot of fat, but it's still not an overall positive reaction.

Ditto goes for OJ. Tried in every way imaginable, just as the above for coffee.

I'm just going with what works for me now, rather than adhering to strict guidelines. So far, so good.
 

gretchen

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I'm a blood type O (and former follower of BTD) and OJ works just fine for me. Coffee is also pretty good. It's milk I'm not really sure about. I digest it fine but am convinced it's the culprit behind much of my weight gain.

I somewhat agree with you about blueberries and figs. Both worked well for me for years but I also agree somewhat with Peat about the seeds issue.

I shouldn't throw this out, but have you genotyped yourself? D'Adamo has a whole system specifically based on your genetics. This is what I was following two years ago at this time. I typed myself as a Hunter:
http://www.dadamo.com/whatsnew_genotypediet.htm
 

Rayser

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gretchen said:
I'm a blood type O (and former follower of BTD) and OJ works just fine for me. Coffee is also pretty good. It's milk I'm not really sure about. I digest it fine but am convinced it's the culprit behind much of my weight gain.

I somewhat agree with you about blueberries and figs. Both worked well for me for years but I also agree somewhat with Peat about the seeds issue.

I shouldn't throw this out, but have you genotyped yourself? D'Adamo has a whole system specifically based on your genetics. This is what I was following two years ago at this time. I typed myself as a Hunter:
http://www.dadamo.com/whatsnew_genotypediet.htm

Figs were called the "mad fruit" in Persia. It was known that eating more than a handful would mess with your head.
They are the most powerful fruit for increasing serotonin.
Ray Peat recommends to stay away from berries. I sometimes strain them to get the seeds out and use the rest as a sauce with cheesecake.

Anybody really still believing in D'Adamo's fairy tales?
 

jaa

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Do you know if dates or apricots have a similar effect as figs?
 

Rayser

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jaa said:
Do you know if dates or apricots have a similar effect as figs?

Yes. They don't. It's the little seeds in figs which cause the problem. A plant protects its seeds with toxins so they cannot be digested if they get eaten by animals. With figs or apricots, you just take out the one pit and eat the fruit.
 
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