Is Anything But RP's Ideal Diet Sustainable?

[welshwing]

Is there anything ELSE out there? I like RP's diet tips but can't comply with getting most calories from fruit carbs.

My cousin is 14 and he eats nothing but dairy, he hates everything else. but sometimes he eats all sorts of junk food, and he's in perfect health, better health than most kids his age actually. In all our family we've had a cavity and he's had none. He's athletic, tall, and good with girls.

The Masai from Africa drink blood and milk and eat raw meat. They're in more robust health than most people.

The Hawaii natives 300 years ago were eating large amounts of sweet potatoes, there are people here who won't even eat a real potato because of the starch. They were in excellent physical condition, the starch didn't age them prematurely or destroy their health.

No fruits in any of their diets.

I would eat Ray Peat's diet but I don't want to eat "mostly carbs from fruits", too specific. Maybe Peat thinks this is optimal, then what's the 2nd best alternative?

 

[lexis]

You can consume refined white sugar for carbs and take a good B-complex supplement

 

[welshwing]

post 106949 You can consume refined white sugar for carbs and take a good B-complex supplement

How do you suppose these people get all their vitamins and minerals while eating their restricted diets? And you say white sugar + vitamin B can replace fruit like oranges, squash, honeydew, watermelon... etc etc?

 

[lexis]

All diets I know of are very restricted.

 

[Emstar1892]

Here's his actual article: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

Notice what he actually claims: There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches. For example, fruits have many advantages over grains, besides the difference between sugar and starch. Bread and pasta consumption are strongly associated with the occurrence of diabetes, fruit consumption has a strong inverse association.

His main worry is that starch raises blood sugar by turning rapidly into glucose, whereas fructose goes straight to the liver and doesn't cause such a rise. 2 things happen after the raise from starch: first, the excess carbohydrate turns quickly to fat. Second, the insulin spike causes the blood sugar to quickly drop after a few hours, raising cortisol and stimulating appetite. It is the CORTISOL response that is his main concern, and that he thinks might be behind weight gain and diabetes. Especially if the cortisol stimulates the release of PUFA.

I am trying to overcome insulin resistance with his advice, and i don't think fructose is ideal for me, the reason being that my liver is probably already fatty, hence adding fructose straight to it may worsen my situation. So I'm having a lot of starch instead. I think as long as I monitor my reactions, stick to whole foods, mitigate stress, my high starch low fructose diet doesn't contradict his ideas at all.

Hope that helped!

 

[YuraCZ]

post 106954 Here's his actual article: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

Notice what he actually claims: There isn't anything wrong with a high carbohydrate diet, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health, but when better foods are available they should be used instead of starches. For example, fruits have many advantages over grains, besides the difference between sugar and starch. Bread and pasta consumption are strongly associated with the occurrence of diabetes, fruit consumption has a strong inverse association.

His main worry is that starch raises blood sugar by turning rapidly into glucose, whereas fructose goes straight to the liver and doesn't cause such a rise. 2 things happen after the raise from starch: first, the excess carbohydrate turns quickly to fat. Second, the insulin spike causes the blood sugar to quickly drop after a few hours, raising cortisol and stimulating appetite. It is the CORTISOL response that is his main concern, and that he thinks might be behind weight gain and diabetes. Especially if the cortisol stimulates the release of PUFA.

I am trying to overcome insulin resistance with his advice, and i don't think fructose is ideal for me, the reason being that my liver is probably already fatty, hence adding fructose straight to it may worsen my situation. So I'm having a lot of starch instead. I think as long as I monitor my reactions, stick to whole foods, mitigate stress, my high starch low fructose diet doesn't contradict his ideas at all.

Hope that helped!

This is true only if you eat JUST starch. Who eats only rice? Who eats only pasta? Who eats only potatoes? If you add protein, fiber and especially fat= balanced meal. Glycemic index = absorption to the bloodstream much slower, much slower then sucrose (glucose and fructose) alone.. People like you don't have even basic knowledge about food and nutrition. Just posting Peat quotes and thinking, that I know something.. It's sad.

 

[Mittir]

The Hawaii natives 300 years ago were eating large amounts of sweet potatoes, there are people here who won't even eat a real potato because of the starch. They were in excellent physical condition, the starch didn't age them prematurely or destroy their health.

No fruits in any of their diets.

I would eat Ray Peat's diet but I don't want to eat "mostly carbs from fruits", too specific. Maybe Peat thinks this is optimal, then what's the 2nd best alternative?

I believe there is no "Ray Peat Diet", he gives general dietary advices based on scientific sources.
It is a very flexible guideline. If starch does not cause any problem for you and you feel
better eating starch than eating fruits, then there is no reason for you to eat something
that makes you feel worse.

Okinawan ate large amount of starch with low fat intake and their PUFA intake was close to 4 grams.
They also ate less calories. PUFA blocks glucose oxidation and fructose has the ability to be
better metabolized than glucose in presence of PUFA. If someone has low PUFA intake and
storage then there would not be a big difference between starch and sugar oxidation.
Most traditional diets were low in total fat and PUFA. Refined oil were expensive.

When it comes to food the best guideline is the after effect. I eat starch once a day and i feel
much better if i skip starch. But, i am not ready to give up starch yet. Quality of sleep
and mental state are good indicator for me if food i am eating is better or not. I have difficulty
getting deep meditation when i eat starch, (well cooked white rice). I believe this is the result
of extra endotoxin.

RP simply does not recommend any fruits, he recommends well-ripened sweet fruits of certain kind.

 

[Giraffe]

post 106947 I like RP's diet tips but can't comply with getting most calories from fruit carbs.

I never heard or read anything like that from Ray Peat. He prefers fruits over starchy food as a source of carbs, and he is very fond of milk.

Read:
Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths
Milk, Calcium and Hormones, East West Healing, 2011

 

[Nicholas]

Ray Peat is not a dietician. He talks far more about physiology and medical culture than he does about what people should eat. As far as carbs, he talks about all of them: milk sugars, table sugar, starches, fruits. I don't think i've read him saying that most "calories" should come from fruit...but i know he has said that fruit carbs are very ideal carbs if they are of good quality and you can digest them.

 

[Emstar1892]

post 106959

post 106954 Here's his actual article: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

You don't need to be mean to me, the main paragraph is actually a direct quotation from peat himself not me, so it's not my opinion anyway.

The second paragraph is a summary of the article, again, not my opinion. I have two degrees (BSc and MSc) in biochemistry. Fat slows glucose uptake but doesn't stop the peak, it just happens later than without fat. Protein just adds to the amount of insulin released, and almost half of it gets converted to glucose, so again, it doesn't do anything to effect the carbs you ate. I'm not sure what's beneficial about slowing the peak, if it happens anyway. If you buy a glucose monitor (~30 pounds) you can measure the response. The peak will be the same, but with protein and fat, it will just happen later, and take longer to clear.

The author of this post is asking on a ray peat forum, whether a ray peat "fruit" diet is essential. I have quoted ray peat, to give him/her ray peat's opinion. Why that makes you angry and mean, I don't know. But have a nice day anyway.

 

[welshwing]

@Emstar1892 yeah thanks that really helped.

I don't have the slightest idea of nutrition either, that's why I ask here. Yes Peat's site is off topic to me, I just want to know what foods to make a diet from.

I take it that there's no way a low carb diet can be optimal. Can I drink mostly milk and 1-2 potatoes/day as my carbs? Can white sugar + B-complex possibly replace fruits? And the rest can come from eggs, gelatin and small amount of cheese?

 

[YuraCZ]

post 106964

post 106959

post 106954 Here's his actual article: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

You don't need to be mean to me, the main paragraph is actually a direct quotation from peat himself not me, so it's not my opinion anyway.

The second paragraph is a summary of the article, again, not my opinion. I have two degrees (BSc and MSc) in biochemistry. Fat slows glucose uptake but doesn't stop the peak, it just happens later than without fat. Protein just adds to the amount of insulin released, and almost half of it gets converted to glucose, so again, it doesn't do anything to effect the carbs you ate. I'm not sure what's beneficial about slowing the peak, if it happens anyway. If you buy a glucose monitor (~30 pounds) you can measure the response. The peak will be the same, but with protein and fat, it will just happen later, and take longer to clear.

The author of this post is asking on a ray peat forum, whether a ray peat "fruit" diet is essential. I have quoted ray peat, to give him/her ray peat's opinion. Why that makes you angry and mean, I don't know. But have a nice day anyway.

If I eat only jasmine rice with very easy to digest, pure source of protein such as whey protein, hydrolyzed collagen or whatever . I will end up in severe hypoglycemia 30-40 min later. If I eat jasmine rice with broccoli (fiber) butter (fat) chicken breast(protein) or just jasmine rice with eggs for example. Then I can go out ride bike for hours or whatever. So clearly. I can see a difference.. I don't feel any "peak" or what you talking about if I eat starch as a part of balanced meal...

 

[lexis]

post 106965 @Emstar1892 yeah thanks that really helped.

I don't have the slightest idea of nutrition either, that's why I ask here. Yes Peat's site is off topic to me, I just want to know what foods to make a diet from.

I take it that there's no way a low carb diet can be optimal. Can I drink mostly milk and 1-2 potatoes/day as my carbs? Can white sugar + B-complex possibly replace fruits? And the rest can come from eggs, gelatin and small amount of cheese?

First you should focus on the basics.That is to get,80 grams of protein and perhaps 200-300 grams of carbs(sugar). Supplements are needed in the short term.

 

[Emstar1892]

The difference in response is just glucose clearance. In the first case your insulin receptors are taking in the glucose rapidly. In the second case, the fatty acids in your blood stream are causing the insulin receptors to delay, so the glucose is staying in your bloodstream for longer. The reason you feel better is just because your high blood sugar is prolonged. The "peak" refers to the highest postprandial glucose reading within 2 hours of eating, it's unrelated to whether you "feel" it. Protein glycation and all other negative effects of a blood glucose peak will happen regardless of what it feels like to you.

The takeaway: whether you eat the carbs with protein and fat and don't "feel it", or eat the carbs and get a crash, your postprandial glucose peak will be EXACTLY the same, causing EXACTLY the same amount of glycation, just at different times. Your choice of aftereffect is hypoglycemia (first case) or prolonged raised glucose (second case). I'm not saying do one or the other, but biochemically, neither reduces how much your blood sugar gets raised.

 

[welshwing]

post 106970

post 106965 @Emstar1892 yeah thanks that really helped.

I don't have the slightest idea of nutrition either, that's why I ask here. Yes Peat's site is off topic to me, I just want to know what foods to make a diet from.

I take it that there's no way a low carb diet can be optimal. Can I drink mostly milk and 1-2 potatoes/day as my carbs? Can white sugar + B-complex possibly replace fruits? And the rest can come from eggs, gelatin and small amount of cheese?

First you should focus on the basics.That is to get,80 grams of protein and perhaps 200-300 grams of carbs(sugar). Supplements are needed in the short term.

2-3 potatoes could fill me up for the day and that's barely 100 grams of carbs... And that much starch is supposedly not a good thing. What do you think of low calorie diets? Like a balanced diet like RP suggest, only on a smaller calorie count. I think the only side effect would be lowered metabolism or something that's not serious. I just want the minimum to get enough good nutrition.

 

[lexis]

post 106972

post 106970

post 106965 @Emstar1892 yeah thanks that really helped.

I don't have the slightest idea of nutrition either, that's why I ask here. Yes Peat's site is off topic to me, I just want to know what foods to make a diet from.

I take it that there's no way a low carb diet can be optimal. Can I drink mostly milk and 1-2 potatoes/day as my carbs? Can white sugar + B-complex possibly replace fruits? And the rest can come from eggs, gelatin and small amount of cheese?

First you should focus on the basics.That is to get,80 grams of protein and perhaps 200-300 grams of carbs(sugar). Supplements are needed in the short term.

2-3 potatoes could fill me up for the day and that's barely 100 grams of carbs... What do you think of low calorie diets? Like a balanced diet like RP suggest, only less carbs. I think the only side effect would be lowered metabolism or something.

One of the things that happens with low carb is protein catabolism. This will raise stress hormones.

 

[welshwing]

Drinking a gallon of skim milk per day could work for gtting carbs, but I have no brands that don't contain additives.

 

[lexis]

Potato is a good source of protein. Extract the juice out of potatoes leaving the starch.

 

[welshwing]

@lexis Is 2000 calories okay to somewhat supress "stress hormone"? I hope that's the only side effect.

I guess not eating PUFA's and getting near 200 grams of carbs and 80 grams of protein is enough.

thank you

 

[lexis]

if you are sedentary,yes