BEANS: Anyone Else Include Legumes/lentils In Their Diet Regularly?

[SOMO]

With the exception of red kidney beans, I've always found them to be a well-digested food for me.

One of the biggest strikes I hear about beans is that they're toxic in their raw form and they cause flatulence/gas in many people. But Mexican people don't constantly have high gas from traditional bean dishes. This is likely because they have been consuming beans since youth. When I order Mexican food, I always ask for EXTRA beans. I don't experience gas or bloating from beans - actually I find them EXTREMELY filling, right up there with baked potatoes. I'm assuming the glucose load from the starch is triggering satiety for me.

Bean toxicity is a small concern. In my opinion, it is not the phytates or oxalates or PHA/lectins in legumes that is a concern, it is the Raffinose.

There is evidence that consuming raffinose (the difficult-to-digest carbohydrate/prebiotic fiber in beans), like consuming lactose, will eventually lead to the ability to better digest that carbohydrate.
I have seen my own lactose "intolerance" (bloating, rumbling, diarrhea and gas) get better by simply drinking milk more often in smaller quantities. I see no reason why this wouldn't also happen with beans, legumes, lentils, etc.

Well-cooked beans (well-cooked starch) don't have resistant starch and so aren't going to create endotoxin. But the Raffinose does not get cooked out, unlike Starch. That is, raffinose is only slightly decreased by cooking.
Also kidney beans have insoluble fiber as well, which RP says speeds up transit time in the colon.

Not to mention, beans are concentrated sources of these nutrients:
-Folate
-Copper
-Zinc
-Vit B1
-Vit B6
-Magnesium
-Protein (even if bean-protein is 30% bioavilable, that's still 13g protein per cup of beans.)

Black Kidney Beans > Red kidney beans.
Red beans have the most PHA, and 5 raw beans is enough to kill a person (but nobody eats raw beans so this is a moot argument against legumes.)
PHA is destroyed by boiling the beans in water (212F) for 10 minutes. Usually directions on beans say to boil for 20 minutes or more, so there is unlikely to be any PHA left over.




Anyone else do fine with legumes?
Even if they're not an ideal food, I haven't noticed any over toxicity from them and besides, I'm striving for good health and enjoyable diet, I'm not a professional bodybuilder or going for UBER OPTIMAL HEALTH.

 

[Amazoniac]

Finding agreeable fibers is where it's at. Here's another example of successful adaptation:
A genetic gift for sushi eaters : Nature News

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I like beans. If lowering Iron is your goal then the phytate is quite helpful. For myself I have beans around 4 meals a week. I think the trouble with beans is if you have them as a staple at every meal, then the phytates and excess fiber / lectin can create trouble. I have gone off beans and noticed no improvements, actually felt worse and also had worse digestion, I digest them well and have been a bean fan my whole life so for me it is a case of 'if it aint broken don't fix it'. Watch out for lentils and chickpeas though, apparently high in glyphosate.

Something I haven't exactly understood in terms of bean fiber supposedly assisting in endotoxin production is: how are well cooked beans which have a small amount of antibiotic built-in, and which are quick to digest, somehow worse for the bowel than raw carrot which also contains antibiotic?? I'd imagine the phytate loaded fiber in beans actually would help to limit endotoxin growth more so than something like cellulose which I'd imagine has no built in microbe defenses....

 

[DaveFoster]

Mung beans and lentils have very little PUFA, some magnesium, larger amounts of manganese and almost the RDA for folate in one serving (1 cup).

Lentils have better nutritional value.

“Two features of mitochondrial damage in severe stress (regardless of whether endotoxin is involved) are a depletion of the antioxidant reserves, and loss of the ability to convert cholesterol into the protective steroid hormones. Mitochondrial damage is more likely in hypothyroidism, as I have discussed previously; thyroxin inhibits lipid peroxidation, end it tends to be inversely related to adrenalin, preventing or minimizing “catecholamine toxicity,” for example. Beans and lentils happen to be powerful anti-thyroid agents, so it isn’t surprising to see indications of decreased aerobic capacity, resulting from decreased peak oxygen consumption in association with the chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), if that syndrome is caused by chronic exposure to dietary legumes.”

Reference: Ray Peat, PhD on Endotoxin – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)​

 

[Captain_Coconut]

“Beans and lentils happen to be powerful anti-thyroid agents"
Reference: Ray Peat, PhD on Endotoxin – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)​

Where can I learn more about this? All I have seen so far are vague references like this, or references to studies involved with undercooked beans.

 

[DaveFoster]

Where can I learn more about this? All I have seen so far are vague references like this, or references to studies involved with undercooked beans.

"About 300 million people across the world suffer from thyroid gland dysfunction. Environmental factors play an important role in causation of autoimmune thyroid diseases in susceptible individuals. Genetics contributes to 70% of the risk. In order to reduce the risk, we need to understand the association of environmental agents with thyroid dysfunction. These factors are especially relevant for those at increased risk due to positive family history. The ideal study to see the impact of a thyroid toxicant consists of directly measuring the degree of exposure to toxicant in an individual with his thyroid status. Knowledge of various factors influencing thyroid dysfunction can help in interpreting the results of such studies in a better way. This article is an attempt to highlight the various possible toxicants affecting thyroid function so that adequate measures can be undertaken to control excessive exposure in future to reduce the prevalence of thyroid disorders.

...Naturally occurring goitrogens: They are found in legumes, plants, amiodarone, lithium [27], in addition to cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, turnip, forms of root cassava. Soy or soy enriched foods can also aggravate thyroid problems reducing T4 absorption and interfering with thyroid hormone action [28] and are reported to increase auto-immune thyroid disease..."

Reference: Various Possible Toxicants Involved in Thyroid Dysfunction: A Review

"Legume intake also resulted in a significant increase (P < or = 0.0001) in glucagon [a stress hormone involved in lipolysis, or the burning of fat] and high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol."

Reference: Hormonal implications of the hypocholesterolemic effect of intake of field beans (Vicia faba L.) by young men with hypercholesterolemia. - PubMed - NCBI

"Lectins are a group of glycoproteins that are present in high levels in legumes (e.g., black beans, soybeans, lima beans, kidney beans and lentils) and grain..."

Reference: Naturally Occurring Food Toxins

"Of particular interest is the implication for autoimmune diseases. Lectins stimulate class II HLA antigens on cells that do not normally display them, such as pancreatic islet and thyroid cells."

Reference: Do dietary lectins cause disease? : The evidence is suggestive—and raises interesting possibilities for treatment ​

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Thanks @DaveFoster

 

[ddjd]

I'm sure I read that ray thinks lentils are fine to eat

 

[Amazoniac]

All foods have inconvenients. Some have more, some have less. If go down the antinutrient path, you end up with a diet of only milk and fruits, but it's not guaranteed because they also have their problems (which is why there are many threads about negative reactions to them). When in doubt, stay away from it for a while and reintroduce later. If a food is invigorating for you, seek information that supports your choices; if not, try to read more about what can go wrong with it.

On the other of the hands, if it's possible to manipulate behavior of animals to the point of making them an easy prey, it would be silly to think that cravings are not a way of manipulating behavior of the host in favor of whatever is parasitizing. It's possible to be hooked on what makes you sick. If it's not through direct manipulation, it can happen when a wanted food is removed from the menu and a rebellion begins with germs hitting the tables in unison with their fists holding cutlery until the desired food is returned, perhaps with toxins being spilled during their starvation.

 

[Peater]

Started adding a couple of tins of kidney beans to chilli recently. Must be the first time in 15 years! Probably averages out to about 10 per portion, so nothing to worry about.

 

[raypeatclips]

I'm sure I read that ray thinks lentils are fine to eat

People should really start posting sources when saying things like this. For example:

"One thing that happens in the vegetable diet, heavily based on [the] cabbage family, or beans, lentils and nuts, these proteins, in quality, rank about 15 times lower than the highest quality protein. And so even though a person might think they're eating nothing but protein rich foods, beans and nuts, their quality is so low that their liver simply can't respond to the thyroid. Besides that, the beans and nuts have many anti-thyroid factors."

"At least 100,000,000 Chinese are hypothyroid, and 25,000,000 are retarded and, actually, have cretinism from congenital low thyroid. It's been known most of this century that in areas where they eat beans as a staple of the diet, such as in China, many types of beans, including soybeans, but in the Andes region, just ordinary beans are the major cause of hypothyroidism, because of various anti-thyroid factors in beans, lentils, and certain nuts -- peanuts, for example. "

"cause hypothyroidism--too much estrogen or cortisol, too little progesterone, a diet containing too little good quality protein, too few calories, or diets containing significant quantities of beans, lentils, or undercooked broccoli or cauliflower—but in our culture unsaturated oils are probably the most important cause"


All found through www.l-i-g-h-t.com

Every time he mentions lentils he warns about diets predominantly based around those, so it doesn't surprise me that he thinks lentils would be okay to eat "normally" as in mixed into a single meal. Sources should still be posted though, I couldn't find any record of him talking about lentils positively.

 

[Frankdee20]

I eat beans daily and they don’t bother me, I literally eat them out of the can with a rinse to wash off the can. They’re delicious.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I’ve yet to see any convincing literature connecting hypothyroidism with cooked bean consumption (emphasis on cooked). I am convinced that soy is a goitrogen, and that uncooked beans are toxic. Also those numbers on China are actually quite low in terms of percent of the population, I just read that China consumes more meat than all other countries, it doesn’t look like beans are a big staple... perhaps whenever RP wrote that the case was different. I’m going to do some more reaearch today and see if I can come to any conclusion, I think India would be the largest consumer of beans... I also am not here to argue that beans are a superior form of nutrition, I would put them in a similar ranking with starches.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I eat beans daily and they don’t bother me, I literally eat them out of the can with a rinse to wash off the can. They’re delicious.

Are you hypothyroid? I ate beans as a staple daily for many years and was not hypothyroid, I only have them several times a week now because I am worried that having them as a staple can throw off my minerals.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Barring cacao, all legumes are absolutely not Peaty at all and to pretend otherwise is to disregard proper categorization. I disagree with his view on them because the evidence I've seen shows positive, not negative results but that is a different topic that really has no point in being discussed here because he is against them. If you are pro-legume as a daily or most days staple, then talking about it here is retarded as a main thread. Saying a comment about how you eat them is fine but a whole thread is odd.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

@Westside PUFAs true, this is the ask for help forum...
@SOMO do you need actual help with beans?

 

[Sobieski]

All I can say is I can't digest beans, lentils, whole grains without problems. As tasty as they are, they seriously f*ck me up. The lowest point of my health was when they were regular staples of my diet.

 

[Lucas]

I eat lentils every day for the last 10 years!! At the same time, I became hypothyroid.

So now I am on an elimination diet, since Monday I don’t eat lentils on my lunch (only white rice and steak) and I am felling worse, like a zombie, it looks like a detox reaction or I really need it!!

In Brazil, the staple lunch is white rice whit black beans, steak and salad.

 

[ddjd]

People should really start posting sources when saying things like this. For example:

"One thing that happens in the vegetable diet, heavily based on [the] cabbage family, or beans, lentils and nuts, these proteins, in quality, rank about 15 times lower than the highest quality protein. And so even though a person might think they're eating nothing but protein rich foods, beans and nuts, their quality is so low that their liver simply can't respond to the thyroid. Besides that, the beans and nuts have many anti-thyroid factors."

"At least 100,000,000 Chinese are hypothyroid, and 25,000,000 are retarded and, actually, have cretinism from congenital low thyroid. It's been known most of this century that in areas where they eat beans as a staple of the diet, such as in China, many types of beans, including soybeans, but in the Andes region, just ordinary beans are the major cause of hypothyroidism, because of various anti-thyroid factors in beans, lentils, and certain nuts -- peanuts, for example. "

"cause hypothyroidism--too much estrogen or cortisol, too little progesterone, a diet containing too little good quality protein, too few calories, or diets containing significant quantities of beans, lentils, or undercooked broccoli or cauliflower—but in our culture unsaturated oils are probably the most important cause"


All found through www.l-i-g-h-t.com

Every time he mentions lentils he warns about diets predominantly based around those, so it doesn't surprise me that he thinks lentils would be okay to eat "normally" as in mixed into a single meal. Sources should still be posted though, I couldn't find any record of him talking about lentils positively.

Well haidut definitely said he eats them for lunch in the recent Danny Roddy patreon episode. I'll look for the ray source

 

[Frankdee20]

Beams are the least of my problems