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BEANS: Anyone Else Include Legumes/lentils In Their Diet Regularly?

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by SOMO, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. lvysaur

    lvysaur Member

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    I've been eating more and more beans lately. Sprouted beans in general cause no issue for me.

    Unsprouted beans can be okay, but only small ones like mung and lentils. I think I remember something in Ayurveda saying that smaller lentils are more easily digested, it seems to hold true.

    Mung beans in particular seem to digest amazingly. Red lentils taste really good too, and digest well.
     
  2. General Orange

    General Orange Member

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    the protein bio-availability is such lesser effectivity compared to per dry weight to animal source proteins, it then need to be consumed in higher quantities, with the negative effect of increasing the anti nutrients and anti thyroid and lectin impact on the system, so that really we should see it as the most useful form of legumes would be something like green peas protein supplement powder. Nuff said.
     
  3. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I would think one would eat beans for the numerous other vitamins and minerals it has, rather than just protein.

    I don’t think it should replace animal protein but supplement, and only according to appetite.
     
  4. General Orange

    General Orange Member

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    therefore : mostly its just a pretty colored veggie additive to a dish that happens to have a more favorable less inflammatory amino acid profile,
    No I dont agree, for that implies we have a free choice of cooked food-that improve- nutrient ratio- but no we have fruit in over-substitution to choose from, PRO nutrient delivery, Peaty style,
     
  5. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I’m struggling to understand the exact point you’re making here but surely you wouldn’t say that consuming a serving of legumes is a net negative to the nutrient status of an organism?

    And if it’s not a net negative, but a positive, maybe not as positive as fruit, but still positive, why eliminate it?

    Ah now I see your argument, in that it steals calories that could be provided for by fruit, which have more vitamins/minerals than beans. But what if ripened fruit isn’t available? Is it better to consume white sugar in this case?

    I don’t think so. Also I think many people will find that a starch free fruit heavy diet isn’t really possible. For these people I think legumes to appetite is a welcome addition.
     
  6. RobertJM

    RobertJM Member

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    I had two tins of beans yesterday. I woke today with poisonous non stop farting (the whole family was immediately evacuated through the nearest fire escape because of these extremely toxic fermented bean gases), which then eventually led to a bowel movement of pure diarrhoea.

    A whole roll of toilet paper was used to mop up the damage (evidencing that this was not a lovely soapy bowel movement of ‘low serotonin’).

    Leading up to the bowel movement I felt very toxic, on edge and very snappy. I was sweating profously, shaking and I am ashamed to say I almost didn’t make it to the toilet in time, but I am so grateful to God that I did.

    For me, beans are the ultimate benchmark of how to judge a food with endotoxin/serotonin influence. Basically, how truly bad can your reaction to a food become.

    I don’t knock the people in this thread who have wonderful reactions to the bean. I just look at Peat’s views on them and just think ‘well that’s another thing he’s right about’. Saying that, I’m not in agreement with him on milk (and people’s consumption of it). Tbh I think there’s a very good reason why so many people don’t tolerate it.
     
  7. lvysaur

    lvysaur Member

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    Well of course, you're eating big beans that probably weren't cooked properly to begin with, and stored in a can.

    Small beans and lentils digest well for almost everyone. Big beans should be sprouted or at least soaked before cooking.
     
  8. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I don’t think it’s fair to blame beans like that when you clearly waaay overdid it on something. I could say the same about milk. If I had 4 cups of milk I’d have diarrhea, couple drips in my coffee? No problem.

    Try maybe a couple tablespoons as a garnish on some rice... I bet it’d be a much more positive experience
     
  9. RobertJM

    RobertJM Member

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    Lol you sound very protective of beans, or just not happy about my review. I can overdo many foods but never have a reaction like this one. Too much bread, too much milk or too much anything else doesn’t give me an experience like a I had this morning with beans. Ughhhh. Just my expeience with them. But thankfully anyway, I feel calm again, now that the bean onslaught is gone. Like I say, it’s a very useful tool for me to judge things by (in terms of how negative things can get).

    I get what you say about moderation. Five or six beans are fine yes. A couple of tins, hell no!
     
  10. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark Member

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    Yes, I sprout the black beluga lentils, and I do mung beans. Never have any perceivable digestion problems. I don't make a staple out of them, but they are good for a rotation. Only takes two days to pop a small sprout, just have to rinse them twice a day. It's really easier than it sounds. I used to think going through all that was a put off, but it takes practically no effort to sprout beans.
     
  11. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    I’m just an advocate for sensible use of food. A response to the orthorexic nature of the general health crowd, and the orthorexic nature I find in myself.

    I just keep noticing how different foods are appropriate for different contexts, and barring an actual allergy, most foods can be appropriately used to the benefit of the individual.
     
  12. lvysaur

    lvysaur Member

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    I just soak for a day, then dry and put in a paper-towel lined pot for another half day. Never had any off smells with this process, and there was no rinsing involved.

    I also keep the original soaking water for mung beans
     
  13. robertf

    robertf Member

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    I'm brewing up a big ayurveda post soon which will include bean infos. Just out of curiosity was the bad bean experience from kidneys? Those can be more toxic than other beans if not prepared properly.

    So from an ayurvedic lense you always want to look at the person's dosha first, in particular the vikruti which indicates what is out of balance in the present tense. A lot Peaters in my reading here fall squarely into the excess vata category, and these people will have the most problems with beans. Severely out of balance vata should not really go near beans. Sprouting is a good step to reduce the enzyme inhibitors, but even then if not cooked properly it still can be very problematic for vata. Beans all have the quality of lightness and dryness which make vata worse. You antidote this by cooking well, adding spices and adding fat. Vata also should eat freshly cooked foods vs. out of a can.

    Always soak/sprout. Always discard the soaking water. Cook for a looong time, preferably until they disintegrate. Adding the right spices is also very important. Vata friendly spices include asafoetida, cumin, ginger, garlic, cinnamon, star anise, cardamom, cloves, pepper, basically any spice that is not overtly spicy.

    Pitta, conversely, when in balance should not have problems with beans. I think how well a person responds to beans are a good tipoff to dosha diagnosis.

    Kapha should theoretically do well with dry beans, but all the kaphas have left this forum a long time ago :)
     
  14. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Yep, vata here and in the past didn't do well with beans. High serotonin. I think I could tolerate them better now.
     
  15. Waremu

    Waremu Member

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    No, beans eventually destroy my gut. After my gut is healed and I do well, I always find that once I start adding beans in again, it goes very well at first due to the higher fiber content probably helping clear out waste and estrogen and endotoxin, but then it eventually kind of ‘backs up’ and bad bacteria feeds on it and I get major endotoxin and serotonin issues and then it take some weeks after cutting it out to get back to where I wasn’t before introducing them in. But I’ve been had times when my gut is healed or doing well and I think “now I should be able to tolerate beans” and then try a little and it goes well until the cascade of bad effects come in. Usually there is a delay. The only type of “beans” or bean-like food I can handle are lentils that are well cooked and only in moderation. I generally keep starch out of my diet as I feel best without it. I feel good enough and satiated enough with a starch free high protein and carb diet mainly from fruits. If I have a huge appetite I’d rather eat some big juicy grass fed steaks that are done rare and well salted in its juice over the BBQ amen aome broth and fresh juice with it. Satiates me more and I feel better from it. Even Ray said he will sit down to a good size streak once a week at least. I don’t really grace beans when I keep protein and zinc high, which I need anyway being a serious lifter for years now. Hard to keep a favorable calcium to phosphate ratio when I add in a good amount of benas as well.
     
  16. sugarbabe

    sugarbabe Member

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    Yeah I get the build up too. First and maybe second day is fine, then come the high serotonin symptoms mainly anxiety attacks.
     
  17. RobertJM

    RobertJM Member

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    That’s a good outlook to have. I could do with separating myself from orthorexic constraints, but it’s what defines me I guess. At 37 I’ve been doing this since my early twenties. I never thought I would up on a Ray Peat inspired way of eating. And I have to be honest in many ways I find it more restrictive than say, a paleo diet. At least with paleo I could take my meat and veg (with a bag of nuts) into work and people were like ‘woah you’re healthy’ and there some kind of mild level of understanding to what I did. With Ray Peat, you are proper freaking people out. My girlfriend has especially found getting to know this particular world of mine quite distressing (she is a vegan and we have, despite me trying to avoid it, butted heads on stuff related to what I do with my diet, and it is now a conversation topic we stay well clear of).

    But for me, just staying low PUFA (anything under 6/7g per day) restricts me on a lot of things and has often excluded me from a lot of things because I just refuse to put it into my mouth. Knowing how easy it is to accumulate the PUFA, and how hard (almost imposssible) it is to get rid of much of it from your tissue unless you go on a stupidly low PUFA diet, is often what freezes me mentally.
     
  18. Captain_Coconut

    Captain_Coconut Member

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    Beans plus high saturated fat in the same few hour window: bad news. Beans with low fat or any amount of monounsaturated: very gut healthy. That has been my experience, in fact I find any high sat fat food with starch is a recipe for bad bloat. It is important to make the distinction that moderate sat fat and high sugar and low starch meal a la peat is pretty gut healthy; it is the addition of the starch with sat fat that is the problem. The starch plus sat fat is like a gateway to pufa oxidation. Sure pufa is bad, but it needs stress to explode. In the gut, the stress comes from the combo of saturated fat and starch. Think of pizza, I always feel like ***t after pizza, I have sworn it off....

    Random point: Human breast milk contains around equal parts saturated and mono-unsaturated fat with a decent amount of starch and sugar. I have found this ratio works best for me, in the same meal.

    I have gone a long period without beans and definitely have bloating from them for the first day or two of re-introducing. This is actually a good sign if you ask me; hypothesis: the gas and loose stool is from the die-off reaction from bacteria which are dependent on heavy metals, in addition the phytate and insoluble fiber is acting to clean out the gut. Further hypothesis: There is a broad benefit to the gram positive intestinal flora via the high akali-mineral content of beans (e.g, potassium) and the flavonoids, and the trace molecular oxygen which are delivered all the way to the lower bowl via the indigestible fiber matrix. When I have taken xylitol in large amounts, which is known to greatly shift the microbiome balance to the gram positive side, I have experienced the same effect as with beans. With xylitol there is a day or two of bad reaction, followed by improved digestion, energy, and healthy looking stool. Going back to my first thought, I think it is as simple as the gut permeability and the way saturated fat somehow makes the gut more apt to leaking lps, and the starch is there feeding lps producing bacteria. Saturated fat and starch do not mix well, but both are good separately. If one had to ingest just starch alone or saturated fat alone - the starch would not create much inflammation where as the fat would create a moderate amount as there would be a load of lps waiting to be released through the thinned gut wall by the gram negative bacteria. I don't really believe in most food combining concepts, but this one rings true to me. Insoluble fiber + moderate sat and mono fat + low pufa + high essential minerals = healthy gut = general good health.

    I recall a study, from long back when I foolishly thought omega 3 / omega 6 might be the answer... The study looked at some African diet, I forget which but it was a simple grains based diet with basically no omega 3, higher omega 6, but also exceptionally high insoluble fiber. Whatever markers of health the study was concerned with found that the terrible ratio of omega 6/3 was unexpectedly not at all inflammatory, in fact this group had better markers than those with high omega 3. This was all attributed to the high insoluble fiber. I think the high fiber likely mops up fats in general. There are various fibers which are known to diminish the intestinal absorption of fat. This is a serious point I think RP misses; for one, phytate will remove the iron load, and secondly the fiber will likely decrease pufa load, and speed up intestinal transit time enough to keep the bad bacteria from doing exceptional damage. Perhaps this is why the standard american diet is so sick, high saturated fat and starch meals, especially high pufa, and barely any indigestible fiber.

    TLDR: Just because indigestible fiber causes a bad reaction for the first day or so, certain studies and personal experiences have misaligned it. In truth if you were to look at the long term studies, and personal experience of those who consume beans as a major staple - it is clear that having similar staples in the diet is a big key to health and longevity.

    I agree with RP on many things and truly feel that the general guideline of getting most of your calories from fruit followed by sat fat and protein is the best guideline to follow. I find RP lacking on having fully considered the value of fiber's relation to stomping out the bad things that PUFA does. We all know without PUFA there can be no oxidative damage, however if you get even a small amount, even if avoid it to an extreme, it is still enough to do serious damage. Therefore mitigating stress is number one, and insoluble fiber, and monounsaturated fats will greatly help to reduce the gut stress - which is likely 75% of the stress we experience on an average day.

    I digress: I used to love lentils, but the glyphosate issue troubles me and I have generally avoided them and chick peas now for quite a while. I miss them really. I am not sure how important the fear of glyphosate is, because seemingly it must be high in livestock diets as well, and then wouldn't that imply that animal food is also high in glyphosate?
     
  19. RobertJM

    RobertJM Member

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    Sorry, I should have elaborated on what format the beans arrived in.

    They were ‘baked beans’ from a tin. Do you have those in America? They come in a tin with tomato sauce. The beans arrive peeled, are ‘pre-baked’, and are ready in the tin ‘ready’ for immediate human consumption. They are actually really yummy like this, and this is the reason I ate two tins.

    Why did I eat two tins? I arrived home and my house was out of food. No shops/stores open nearby.

    I would never, not in a million years, eat two tins of tasteless/gross/harsh/aggressive kidney beans, which would simply destroy my digestive tract on its way through ‘down there’.
     
  20. Captain_Coconut

    Captain_Coconut Member

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    posted edit in wrong window
     
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