My dad's health is getting worse, he's low calorie pescatarian, and my mom (his wife) is a ranting narcissist. Do you know of anything I can do?

[ironfist]

your dad propensity to submit to your mom authority is health/energy related in his context from the informations you gave.the context where you can have great health/energy and still submit to au authority is when you know that the consequences of not submitting to this authority on your health/energy could be significant.do your dad depend on your mom to have a home,and to eat, or can sustain himself even with out her,if he depend on her would he still depend on your mom for these things if he would get a better health/energy?

Can you talk more about this?

Do you yourself feel energetic?if you work on that you will be way more convincing,and it wont even necessary be perceive as confrontational,or negatively,plus its better for you to know which signs to look for that indicate that your dad is on the right path of improving is energy/health,some can be subtils,some can be drastic.

Assuming I know what you're talking about, my dad is pretty focused on keeping my mom calm. I think even if I got him happy about a new idea, she would still be able to easily shut it down.

i guarantee you that if you feel energetic yourself you are significantly more likely to make your dads try new things even if they are not your mom perspective

Agree.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Can you talk more about this?


Assuming I know what you're talking about, my dad is pretty focused on keeping my mom calm. I think even if I got him happy about a new idea, she would still be able to easily shut it down.

Agree.

hi,if your dad doesnt depend on your mom to have a home,to have money,to eat,and that even if your mom would leave the home he could still life approximatively the same life,then the reason he submit to her authority is not due to dependence to her.in his context he does not have the energy to manifest a legitimate questionning and skeptical stance(in a neutral sense,not perojative)of the thing syour mom tell him,he accept it and submit even in context where its not legit to do so.the best solution is to take actions only on things that you deem the benefit/risk of improving your father situation and not having repercussion on your dad and you is high enough,you improve your own energy,your own power,your own intuitions and intelligence,then you do expose to your dads the things that could improve your father state,you ensure as much as possible that these new ideas are not perceive as health advices going againts your mom authoritys or perspectives,you ensure these new ideas are perceive as much as possible as benign,fun,dad/son interactions,so your mom feel the lesser need to counter and oppose these new ideas,and your dad doesnt have to accept her authority to calm her.but if you feel enough power/energy your self i guarantee you this will make it 100 times easyer,it will be a game to you,you wont feel any pressure from your mom,you will laugh about these authoritarian crisis,my mom is a tyrant i know these kind of persons.the only moment you should accept to confront your mom authority,total confrontation,power vs power,in your exchange,is if you know the probability of it resulting in an improvement for your dad and your self is higher enough than the risk and you deem that you exhausted any other friendly possibility,and the situation is urgent enough for your dad that you can not wait any longer,you must confront it

 

[ironfist]

@ironfist your first exemple was clear enough,i understand the situation.its positive that is isnt not a weath issue,so your dad doesnt rely on your mom for money,and its about his own state,and its changeable.

there is 2 main ways:
you do try to make your dads experiment with things(things that are not necessary doable into a medical organism) that increase his energy/health,you do not expose them as health advices,you use your creativity,intuitions and intelligence to ensure these things are perceive as dad/mom friendly,like dad/son relation ship activities.

[/QUOTE]

Agree.

you do reach a higher energy,and enough emotional resilience so you will be more convincing in exchange,independently of the relevance of your speech,and you will be able to handle your moms weapons,whever her arguments,or her reminding you that she is is control,or her reminding you that she has the knowledge,you will be able to handle all of this with out getting emotional,i did not influence a single person in my life doesnt matter how hard i try even my family until i got a higher degree of energy my self.

[/QUOTE]


What exactly do you mean higher energy? Non-reactivity? Success? Confidence? Some version of inner energy?

you can probably not play the ampathy/pity/emotion appeal card with your mom,she will very likely not be sensitive to it. it has to be things that are not perceive as threatening her controll,
or you do enter a certain degree of confrontation to her perspectives and authority, you have to make her accept your equal or higher relevance/power on certain things,and for that you need to get more convincing yourself,get more energy and confidence.its not much about how well you learned your theories,its mostly about having energy/confidence and having the good intuitions to when to put some humor,when to be more serious,when to be more playfull,when to respect less her sensitivity and dominate more.

[/QUOTE]

True. I have tried this. My mom doesn't allow confrontation and will exert her power immediately, including kicking me out.

and from your mom perspective,why would she give more credit to your perspectives rather than her own perspectives?which characteristics do you have or your speech possess that would make her do that?

She only values her own perspective. Whatever I say is wrong.

 

[noodlecat]

Ok check it out. My father, who is 72, is developing early signs of dementia and Parkinson's or perhaps essential tremor.

Normally I would just say this is what happens to people, but recently I have been studying Sarno, and believe there may be more to it. My mom is a narcissist and my dad is codependent. He is afraid of her. He is not allowed to have his own opinions about things. Since he retired, I have watched him further submit to her and let her make all decisions, because if he makes a decision that is different from what she wants, he'll get yelled at (not really yelled at, but lectured and shamed). These are what I believe contribute to his heath problems.

My father is a vegetarian. He has been for more than 10 years. My mom became a vegetarian and shamed him into becoming a vegetarian. Of course, she tells him he can eat meat, but he won't, because he knows he'll endure shaming from it.

I am codependent, too, resulting from a childhood of narcissism, but I have learned this recently and am going about resolving it (therapy).

I am sad, I watch my father every day be sad (my dad is a military guy and will not say he is sad). He is unhappy every day but cannot stand up to my mom, who is the source of it even though he would never admit it. My father's purpose in life is to take care of her. He is the nicest person on the planet, yet, my mom being a narcissist cannot be happy, so the more he tries, the greater her unhappiness.

It breaks my heart to watch him be sad constantly. My dad and mom usually spend their days in different rooms. They only interact when it's time to eat or when he is getting belittled for something, or told what to do. My mom has a lot of gross habits, and my dad has started copying them (solidarity?). When I ask my dad about some of the weird things my mom does, he defends her (if this concept is weird to you, imagine a beaten wife making excuses for her husband). My dad tries constantly to do or say things that will make her happy, but they don't work. He has developed a method of interacting with her where he is basically being completely without opinion until she says something, and then he grabs onto that opinion and elaborates. This keeps him from getting yelled at for having his own opinions, and keeps her calm mood, so he can be protected.

My mom is a pretty bitter person all around, to be honest.

I cannot give my dad health advice. He only listens to my mom.

Similar to myriad narcissists, my mom has convinced my dad (and everyone else in the family) that she knows the most about everything. Even if my dad doesn't believe it, he would never share his own opinion or question her.

My dad needs to go to the doctor, but my mom gets him not to go. She'll say things like "well there's nothing they can do" (wtf), or "well you've had every test there is", or other stupid bull****.

My dad doesn't eat enough. He is skinny and tall and probably eats (estimated) 35g of protein per day (two bowls of cereal with skim milk and some fish).

My dad is super intelligent. I mean like, this dude is the smartest guy you or anyone you know will ever meet. I'm not saying that because he's my dad, I'm saying it because he's true. Trivia like he's memorized the encyclopedia, advanced math done in his head, etc. Ridiculous.

His cognition is declining (diet and trauma?). I don't know what to do. He won't do anything and it's pissing me off, which is just causing me to get frustrated. I want him to realize my mom is making him unhappy, but I don't think he would admit that regardless of computing it.

Thoughts?

I have experienced similar things. do you make money? my experience is once i started making money i could buy the foods for them and they would more likely eat them if good stuff is around, or prepare meals and invite them to eat what you’ve made. you could take your dad on a vacation for a couple weeks. or you could send your mom on vacation so you have some relief at home. maybe take them both on a trip (might sound like a nightmare at first) where you choose where to go, what to eat mostly.

 

[Nomane Euger]

@ironfist higher energy and power,in your context of what would be usefull,it would be more biological emotional stoicism,so you dont get negatives emotions from your interactions with your moms and by the thoughts happening in your head,then the characteristics that you will manifest when you have a higher degree of energy and you feel masculine and that will make you have more influence over your dad and your mom:

a deeper voice, less fleeing or non fleeing lookings,a better posture,more volume in your voice,more optimisme,more enthusiasme,better intuitions about how to say things,wich degree of humor,wich degree of seriousness,more adaptability to the situation,quicker adaptability,more perseverance,you will give up way less if you deem thats important,and the ability to confront your mom if it reach total confrontation.


from your perspective,why should she listen to you,or your dad listen to you?

 

[ironfist]

The real issue is your dad. Sounds rough but he probably has been codependent from a young age. It is your chance to change it. Not him but yourself. To not make the same mistake.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, I understand now he is codependent. I normally thought he was just being nice. My dad is very sweet, but he is frightened of my mom. She is never violent or anything, but she uses drama to manipulate him. He cannot defend against her because she'll just use stronger drama. It's frustrating.

You have to realize your dad (subconciously) chose for this situation. If he had testicles he would make your mother leave or he would leave himself. Women can become tyrants when uncontrolled. A lot of women push boundaries further and further. Like children.

Shame is not physical violence. Shame = words. If he is afraid of words then I think it is hard to help him.

Women, incl. my mom shame me all the time. But I don't take it and they respect that. This stuff is about respect. Your mom has none for your father.

Anyways to help him directly I would advice him to take a low dosage B vitamins daily, tell him to eat more meat, tell him to start working out, etc.

If he does not listen to your advice then I would leave him behind and focus on yourself to not become like him. BTW a lot of modern relationships are like this. So don't worry you are not special and it is fixable for yourself. You need to help yourself first anyways before you can help your father.

This comes from a guy with a submissive father and a strong willed mother. It took me a few years to change direction and to understand. Trust me your relationship with your mother will improve as well if you grow some testicles.

My mom does not like people who have different opinions than her or who don't allow her to do whatever she wants.

 

[ironfist]

I think you should subjugate your mothers authority in front of your dad. Tyrants need to be stood up to, weaseling around her is just going to reinforce her “iron fist” on both of you

No idea how this would be done. When I've proven my mom wrong in front of my dad, or whatever, he still takes her side.

 

[Nomane Euger]

No idea how this would be done. When I've proven my mom wrong in front of my dad, or whatever, he still takes her side.

it is not mainly about the hypotetical relevance of the contain of your speech,it is about how you express your ideas

 

[ironfist]

@ChemHead there is peoples that are on HRT and are still still wimp even when they have a a high muscle mass,why do you claim with absolutism that his dad must be on HRT and thats the only solution to escape this situation,if some of peoples on HRT are still wimp?

Truth. Like bodybuilder guys who are complete controlled by their girlfriends.

 

[ironfist]

@ironfist higher energy and power,in your context of what would be usefull,it would be more biological emotional stoicism,so you dont get negatives emotions from your interactions with your moms and by the thoughts happening in your head,then the characteristics that you will manifest when you have a higher degree of energy and you feel masculine and that will make you have more influence over your dad and your mom:

a deeper voice, less fleeing or non fleeing lookings,a better posture,more volume in your voice,more optimisme,more enthusiasme,better intuitions about how to say things,wich degree of humor,wich degree of seriousness,more adaptability to the situation,quicker adaptability,more perseverance,you will give up way less if you deem thats important,and the ability to confront your mom if it reach total confrontation.


from your perspective,why should she listen to you,or your dad listen to you?

I have tried to do this. My mom is bothersome on purpose, attention seeking behavior, to get a response. She will be disgusting to get a reaction out of people, and will enhance it until she does. In the last few years she has become a completely different person, from just kind of maddening sometimes to super annoying and gross basically constantly. Even if it frustrated my dad, he would not say anything. It's very difficult to be unemotional with my mother.

My dad enables her.

He defends her when I ask the reason.

My dad is a very rational smart person. This should be my way to convince him. But it doesn't work anymore. He'll just defer to my mother.

 

[Nomane Euger]

I have tried to do this. My mom is bothersome on purpose, attention seeking behavior, to get a response. She will be disgusting to get a reaction out of people, and will enhance it until she does. In the last few years she has become a completely different person, from just kind of maddening sometimes to super annoying and gross basically constantly. Even if it frustrated my dad, he would not say anything. It's very difficult to be unemotional with my mother.

My dad enables her.

He defends her when I ask the reason.

My dad is a very rational smart person. This should be my way to convince him. But it doesn't work anymore. He'll just defer to my mother.

its not much about voluntarily immerssing yourself into that,if you know you have not succedd,its about making things that will make you reach a state,where your characteristics will increase drastically your potential to changes things.its only about power there,your mom having more power than you and your dad,because you are her son,she thinks you owe her things,despit you dont,and you probably have some degree of reliance to her to live a decent life,like money foods....Etc thats the main factor.

 

[ChemHead]

By not getting your dad on HRT, you are completely ignoring the most significant factor in his health. He is 72 years old and he is hypogonadal because that's what happens to people who age. You can't force a person to eat when they don't have sufficient steroidogenesis. Your father doesn't have the metabolic rate he had even 10 years ago and certainly nowhere near what it was 30 years ago. You need to give your dad the ability to think clearly again and have drive and better metabolic function.

The behavior your dad is displaying will not change because he starts to eat grass fed beef or whatever food witchcraft one can think of. It's like thinking that eating apples is going to make your 72 year old crepey skin smooth and youthful again. Eating apples over a lifetime will probably help you age slower. Eating them when you're 72 and expecting a significant change in your skin is naive. Likewise, eating meat or eggs or some magic super smoothie isn't going to return your dad to a previous state of clarity and lucidity. His behavior isn't going to suddenly begin changing at his age because of a dietary change. Your dad doesn't want to eat other foods or more food because he has no appetite and he has no appetite because he is hypogonadal and has a very low metabolic rate.

You're disappointed that your dad isn't his former self and he's letting your mother walk all over him. Of course!! That's what happens when you get old. 50 years ago, that was it. People got old their body and mind deteriorated, they became immobile and lost their ability to have lucid thoughts. Now, we don't have to live that way. We can add years or even decades of better quality of life due to being able to bypass our old, worn out biological machinery by restoring hormone function. We can be active and present in our last years rather than confused, immobile, and in pain.

Your dad can't be assertive or stand up for himself or be the person you remember him as because this is ALL hormone driven behavior. Get your dad on HRT and his behavior will change and his appetite will change. He'll probably even be inclined to try eating some of the food people have been suggesting here because the way he's currently eating won't be able to support his appetite if he were on HRT. It's really your choice to be honest. It sounds like your dad has already lost most of his autonomy with respect to decision-making capability. Unless your dad has let your mother walk all over him for their entire marriage, as much as you want to blame your mother, it's not her fault. Your dad simply doesn't have the energy to participate in any form of resistance or discord and so he simply acquiesces. At this point, it's kind of up to you whether you want to see your dad suffer in his current state because this is no longer something he can do on his own... Which I assume you realize because you're on here asking what to do.

Anyway, good luck.

 

[Jerkboy]

Yes, I understand now he is codependent. I normally thought he was just being nice. My dad is very sweet, but he is frightened of my mom. She is never violent or anything, but she uses drama to manipulate him. He cannot defend against her because she'll just use stronger drama. It's frustrating.


My mom does not like people who have different opinions than her or who don't allow her to do whatever she wants.
[/QUOTE]

Lol. It is always a warzone when I go back to my parents. My mother always tries to lower my confidence, small little digs, etc. She does the same to my dad. But to me it does not work. She goes further and further.

I have noticed a lot of women do this to various degrees. Chipping away at you, slowly. Death by a thousand concessions. If you let them that is.

I think this is built into women. In varying degrees. Some women are on the upper scale, others on the lower scale. It is destructive for a child though. If your own mother makes you codependent and low confidence. Perhaps this is also what made your dad seek out this type of woman.

I think severely insecure/traumatised females do it to much more extent. Same for severely insecure males doing it too. I notice feminine males also like to chip away 24/7.

 

[Slappy Hands]

Ok check it out. My father, who is 72, is developing early signs of dementia and Parkinson's or perhaps essential tremor.

Normally I would just say this is what happens to people, but recently I have been studying Sarno, and believe there may be more to it. My mom is a narcissist and my dad is codependent. He is afraid of her. He is not allowed to have his own opinions about things. Since he retired, I have watched him further submit to her and let her make all decisions, because if he makes a decision that is different from what she wants, he'll get yelled at (not really yelled at, but lectured and shamed). These are what I believe contribute to his heath problems.

My father is a vegetarian. He has been for more than 10 years. My mom became a vegetarian and shamed him into becoming a vegetarian. Of course, she tells him he can eat meat, but he won't, because he knows he'll endure shaming from it.

I am codependent, too, resulting from a childhood of narcissism, but I have learned this recently and am going about resolving it (therapy).

I am sad, I watch my father every day be sad (my dad is a military guy and will not say he is sad). He is unhappy every day but cannot stand up to my mom, who is the source of it even though he would never admit it. My father's purpose in life is to take care of her. He is the nicest person on the planet, yet, my mom being a narcissist cannot be happy, so the more he tries, the greater her unhappiness.

It breaks my heart to watch him be sad constantly. My dad and mom usually spend their days in different rooms. They only interact when it's time to eat or when he is getting belittled for something, or told what to do. My mom has a lot of gross habits, and my dad has started copying them (solidarity?). When I ask my dad about some of the weird things my mom does, he defends her (if this concept is weird to you, imagine a beaten wife making excuses for her husband). My dad tries constantly to do or say things that will make her happy, but they don't work. He has developed a method of interacting with her where he is basically being completely without opinion until she says something, and then he grabs onto that opinion and elaborates. This keeps him from getting yelled at for having his own opinions, and keeps her calm mood, so he can be protected.

My mom is a pretty bitter person all around, to be honest.

I cannot give my dad health advice. He only listens to my mom.

Similar to myriad narcissists, my mom has convinced my dad (and everyone else in the family) that she knows the most about everything. Even if my dad doesn't believe it, he would never share his own opinion or question her.

My dad needs to go to the doctor, but my mom gets him not to go. She'll say things like "well there's nothing they can do" (wtf), or "well you've had every test there is", or other stupid bull****.

My dad doesn't eat enough. He is skinny and tall and probably eats (estimated) 35g of protein per day (two bowls of cereal with skim milk and some fish).

My dad is super intelligent. I mean like, this dude is the smartest guy you or anyone you know will ever meet. I'm not saying that because he's my dad, I'm saying it because he's true. Trivia like he's memorized the encyclopedia, advanced math done in his head, etc. Ridiculous.

His cognition is declining (diet and trauma?). I don't know what to do. He won't do anything and it's pissing me off, which is just causing me to get frustrated. I want him to realize my mom is making him unhappy, but I don't think he would admit that regardless of computing it.

Thoughts?

it sounds like you're trying to blame the mother for all of this, when it it seems like it's the father who empowers the mother. just because he looks pathetic after the fact, doesn't mean he's not making the decision.

the only way to deal with narcissists is to go no-contact, and if your father has dug into her camp, trying to help him is like trying to put out a forest fire with petrol. respect his decisions - if he choses to empower her at his expense, that is his decision, not hers.