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DeFibron - Liquid Supplement For R&D

Discussion in 'IdeaLabs' started by haidut, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Here are some studies on SFA actually reversing liver cirrhosis due to alcohol abuse, even in the presence of continued drinking.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11602676
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15051845
     
  2. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    @haidut
    Thanks for the studies Haidut. With these in mind what would you say the mechanism is of the deceased endotoxin; Anti0microbial effect of fatty acids with bile acids? The studies discussed a decrease in endotoxemia and lipid per oxidation by switching to saturated fatty acids which makes a lot of sense. It is also known that increased saturated fatty acid intake protects the liver from endotoxin even though in some studies it increases absorption of the endotoxin. I think the mechanism from what I remember is by an up regulation in proteins associated with the detox of endotoxin. Anyway we know saturated fatty acids are protective pretty much across the board. I think we can safely say this. But now my questioning involves saturated fat intake overall. You have posted many studies showing cancers addiction to fats and I have seen the animal studies, even the ones way back in the 30s, on fats causing cancer in rats and mice so I ask you where do you think the threshold is for fat intake? I think just as there is a range for protein, there is also a range for fat (with carbs being adjusted as an energy source). It seems that there should be a level where saturated fat intake is protective and not cancer inductive, actually required for optimal functioning. If we could find this threshold I think it would help a lot of people on the forum.

    (btw I know these studies were in reference to hairloss, thanks for that. I'm going to research methyl palmitate a little bit more before I try Defibron but when I experiment with it, if I do, I will take pictures and outline my usage, protocol and effects. Perhaps I will outline a protocol on the forum and basically run a "clinical test" of sorts haha)
     
  3. CLASH

    CLASH Member

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    @haidut
    It seems that saturated fatty acids are very important in digestion specifically. They stimulate bile acids which regulate enzyme activity on the brush border, and facilitate protein digestion as well as fat digestion and "sterilize" the small intestine. Saturated fatty acids themselves protect the liver, and buffer PUFA as you have mentioned in other posts. It is well known among native american tribes that eating protein without adequate fat leads to digestive issues and a state known "rabbit starvation" (I think this is what it was called). Also, I am pretty sure that fermentation of animal protein in the colon leads to the development of gram negative bacteria and pathogens, so it would be good to avoid having animal protein reach the colon. I think all of this points to finding an optimal saturated fatty acid intake. I don't think less is better. I know of all the fats saturated fatty acids are the least dangerous but they still eventually lead to cancer in the rat/mouse model. Perhaps the rat and mouse physiology is slightly different than our own and due to our increased brain function and different GI tract that relies much more heavily on absorption as opposed to fermentation. Perhaps our fatty acid intake should be higher (not super high but some optimal range). Also from what I've read chimps (our closest genetic relatives) have close to 50% of their intake of fat per day due to bacterial fermentation leading to the production of short chain fatty acids in their colons. This is similar for gorillas, I think all apes and cattle. The diets of all these animals point to sugar intake, saturated fat intake and adequate protein intake thus supporting peat's view as well yours (let me know if I am wrong haha). Also there is mention of the randle effect with fatty acids, perhaps this is not so black and white in the human body ( I need to research more on this one).

    Enhancement of dietary protein digestion by conjugated bile acids. - PubMed - NCBI

    http://www.pnas.org/content/111/16/E1610.full.pdf
    (title incase the link doesn't work: Bile salts act as effective protein-unfolding agents and instigators of disulfide stress in vivo)

    Rat intestinal brush border enzymes release by deoxycholate in vivo

    Cholestyramine and bile diversion lower the aminopeptidase activity in the intestinal brush border membrane of rats. - PubMed - NCBI

    Conjugated bile salts regulate turnover of rat intestinal brush border membrane hydrolases. - PubMed - NCBI

    Influence of diet on the gut microbiome and implications for human health | Journal of Translational Medicine | Full Text
     
  4. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks for all this!
    The link between fat and cancer seems to apply mostly to PUFA and MUFA. I posted a few studies on SFA acid inhibitng or even treating cancer. Search the forum for "palmitate cancer" or "caprylic cancer". The beneficial effects of SFA are due to may factors and you mentioned some of them already. I would say a combination of gut sterilizing effect, displacement of PUFA from cells and thus lowering synthesis of inflammatory mediators, inhibition of peroxidation, increase in androgen/pregnenolone synthesis, and (perhaps paradoxically) inhibition of FAS and even FAO would be the main ones behind fibrosis benefit.
    Not sure what the optimal amount of fat intake would be. Peat said the ideal proportion of macronutrients is not really known but his guess would be "about equal". So, that implies about 33% fat. For hypo people less fat is probably better since it increases conversion of T4 into T3, but I would chose ratio based on symptoms and how the person feels, not based on abstract ideal ratios.
     
  5. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    I'm curious how defibron compares to coconut oil as a coffee stabilizer (i.e. bulletproof coffee). Thoughts?
     
  6. Bobber Anderson

    Bobber Anderson Member

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    So far this product is making me beyond hot (uncomfortably so), and very irritable & short tempered. A few others have mentioned this on the thread. Does this pass? I am taking ten drops per day.
     
  7. managing

    managing Member

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    Orally? For me it had profound effects of reordering my intestinal flora. Even at 2 drops. My $.02 is, this is a good thing and will pass. But you probably ought to consider taking it MUCH slower.

    Also, have you experienced shortness of breath?
     
  8. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    What effects did you notice on it and then off it (if you don't take it anymore that is) ?
     
  9. managing

    managing Member

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    I believe it may have cured my asthma. I only experience it for several weeks in the spring each year and I got it near the end. So I need to check again next spring to be sure.

    It caused intestinal discomfort at first. But that ended and then intestinal regularity was best its been.

    When I went off of it, same in reverse, as it seemed to allow at least partial reversion. but intestinal regularity has continued to be better than before.

    Definitely some dopaminergic actions which can be too much when combined with others. Also, I always got the feeeling that my liver glycogen store was not as strong when taking it.
     
  10. Bobber Anderson

    Bobber Anderson Member

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    Orally, yes. I have noticed some beneficial effects, too. A very interesting product.

    I think that might be a good call on taking it slower. No shortness of breath issues, just this huge increase in body heat. Because the winter here is brutal, every building I walk into has their heating on maximum, and that is what's irritating me. I also noticed periods of being extremely tired today, to the point where even talking to people felt like too much of an effort.

    How would you know it has re-ordered your intestinal flora?

    I haven't noticed much at all in terms of the bowel movements. I was really hoping this product would help regularity in the same way that mitolipin did for me. But it hasn't so far. My gut does seem a lot quieter and more peaceful, though.

    At the moment, I really don't know what to make of it.

    Oh, definite tooth sensitivity (I get this with K2 as well).
     
  11. managing

    managing Member

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    The tiredness sounds like what makes me say "feeeling that my liver glycogen store was not as strong" although that is highly inferential.

    As for intestines. Just the gas/bloating then really good, then when stopping, some gas/bloating which ends. Again, inferential. But I take that to be killing off some microbes (and thus allowing others to thrive).
     
  12. Waynish

    Waynish Member

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    Stability in sunlight? Can be used as a part of sun protection formula?
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Since it has some vitamin E in it, probably not best to expose to direct sunlight for long time. Aspirin, caffeine, niacinamide seem to be better for sunscreen protection.
     
  14. Constatine

    Constatine Member

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    Anyone still use this for digestion? How are the results?
     
  15. tomisonbottom

    tomisonbottom Member

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    How big and old was your scar?
     
  16. Bobber Anderson

    Bobber Anderson Member

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    I can take 40 drops of this product daily without any problems. Initially, it was causing me problems but I think I really like it. I take it daily (20-40 drops). Going to get some more when I get paid next.

    So I've run out of what I had, and since running out I've noticed that my gut is twisting and turning with everything that I eat. In fact, I'm having a horrible time. Saying that, I haven't done the carrot salad for weeks (pure laziness), and I am living off less than ideal foods (convenience foods), whilst trying to maintain low PUFA.

    I'm going to try and get back on the daily carrot salads (pain in the butt to prepare). Cascara, niacinamide, etc until I get more difibron (which was doing the job all by itself).
     
  17. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. So, the DeFibron was helping with digestion which was suffering before and now when you are out of DeFibron, right? Did it improve regularity, pain/congestion, energy levels, etc?
     
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