Bringing To Attention The Dark Side Of Dairy

[Runenight201]

BEFORE any readers of this thread ditch dairy, try this one recipe. This one recipe I swear by!

Ingredients:

Butter, 1% milk, cinnamon, dark brown sugar, vanilla extract, unsweet tea

Figure out the ratios yourself....the body knows what it likes! Just taste and update as mixing the ingredients over the stove top!!!

 

[Peatful]

BEFORE any readers of this thread ditch dairy, try this one recipe. This one recipe I swear by!

Ingredients:

Butter, 1% milk, cinnamon, dark brown sugar, vanilla extract, unsweet tea

Figure out the ratios yourself....the body knows what it likes! Just taste and update as mixing the ingredients over the stove top!!!

I like this.

I would add generally speaking:

Consider small amounts of warmed milk.
Warm milk is easier for me to digest for sure.

 

[Jennifer]

Yum! That's what I had for lunch yesterday - grilled cheese and tomato soup

As for dairy, I drink around a pint of milk a day, usually flavored with chocolate but sometimes plain and almost always with other foods. Also greek yogurt and cheese and ice cream (not all of those necessarily every day). It's not something I force on myself; it's a food group I enjoy and seem to do fine with it. Though I do need deodorant lol. I average around 1500mg of calcium a day and dairy contributes to about a third of my protein and overall calories. To cut it from my diet would require some serious reworking and I'm not sure the effort would be worth it in my case.

Jennifer (and other folks who have ditched dairy) what do you do for calcium? Or do you not worry about it?

Aww...I aspire to be you when I grow up! Haha! I certainly wouldn't ditch dairy if I tolerated it. As a French girl, it's an insult to my people that I can't eat cheese. lol

I make a concentrated nettle infusion for calcium (and extra minerals). I also keep a nettle glycerin tincture on hand for when I don't have time to make the infusion.

 

[Inaut]

Grilled cheese is probably my favourite snack in the whole entire world... ketchup for dipping.

I wish i was a kid again

 

[sweetpeat]

Aww...I aspire to be you when I grow up! Haha! I certainly wouldn't ditch dairy if I tolerated it. As a French girl, it's an insult to my people that I can't eat cheese. lol

I make a concentrated nettle infusion for calcium (and extra minerals). I also keep a nettle glycerin tincture on hand for when I don't have time to make the infusion.

Ah yes, the French do like their cheese. I think my ancestry is predominantly Irish so maybe lots of dairy farmers/consumers in my family tree too lol.

That's interesting about the nettles. Google says nettle tea has 428 mg calcium per cup. That's amazing! That's more per cup than milk! Is it tasty?

 

[Francisco]

Ah yes, the French do like their cheese. I think my ancestry is predominantly Irish so maybe lots of dairy farmers/consumers in my family tree too lol.

That's interesting about the nettles. Google says nettle tea has 428 mg calcium per cup. That's amazing! That's more per cup than milk! Is it tasty?

That much calcium? I never knew. I’ve heard nettle has other benefits too. Is the calcium bioavailable?

 

[TheBeard]

BEFORE any readers of this thread ditch dairy, try this one recipe. This one recipe I swear by!

Ingredients:

Butter, 1% milk, cinnamon, dark brown sugar, vanilla extract, unsweet tea

Figure out the ratios yourself....the body knows what it likes! Just taste and update as mixing the ingredients over the stove top!!!

You mean like...chai tea?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Aww...I aspire to be you when I grow up! Haha! I certainly wouldn't ditch dairy if I tolerated it. As a French girl, it's an insult to my people that I can't eat cheese. lol

I make a concentrated nettle infusion for calcium (and extra minerals). I also keep a nettle glycerin tincture on hand for when I don't have time to make the infusion.

I wouldn't avoid dairy either if I reacted well to it. Milk and cheese are freaking delicious.

 

[ExCarniv]

I wouldn't avoid dairy either if I reacted well to it. Milk and cheese are freaking delicious.

Specially cheese. Good quality hard aged cheese, with marmalade, delicious snack.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Grilled cheese is probably my favourite snack in the whole entire world... ketchup for dipping.

I wish i was a kid again

Hey,hang in there dude,we will
find some cures,and live forever!

 

[tara]

Physiology is FAR too nuanced to create a balanced system based on what a substance is composed of, ...

+1
It might be worth checking that one is roughly getting basic needs met. But then paying attention to appetites and effects gives the body a chance to have influence on a much more complex level.

Yeah, I've also heard him switch around what he eats.

Seems normal to me. I wouldn't expect most people to stay with a rigid unvarying diet all the time for years.

I certainly wouldn't ditch dairy if I tolerated it.

+1. Me too.

Jennifer (and other folks who have ditched dairy) what do you do for calcium? Or do you not worry about it?

I get a little from greens and other foods, and supplement a little calcium carbonate daily.

If I could have milk and cheese and all the other variants without suffering, I wouldn't have given it up either.
I did have a patch of drinking it with coffee for many months a while ago, which seemed to make a difference. But I wasn't coping with regular coffee either. I haven't kept it up. Was also supplementing a bit more progesterone at the time too.

That's interesting about the nettles. Google says nettle tea has 428 mg calcium per cup. That's amazing! That's more per cup than milk! Is it tasty?

I like nettle tea now and then.

 

[Jennifer]

Ah yes, the French do like their cheese. I think my ancestry is predominantly Irish so maybe lots of dairy farmers/consumers in my family tree too lol.

That's interesting about the nettles. Google says nettle tea has 428 mg calcium per cup. That's amazing! That's more per cup than milk! Is it tasty?

LOL You make your people proud then.

I've taken a lot of herbs, some that are pretty disgusting, so my standards may be low but I enjoy nettle. It sort of reminds me of the tea they serve at Chinese restaurants and the glycerin tincture sort of reminds me of chocolate covered cherries. I also take horsetail for my bones.

That much calcium? I never knew. I’ve heard nettle has other benefits too. Is the calcium bioavailable?

It seems to be more bioavailable for me than dairy because with nettle (and other herbs/greens), my PTH stays at the low end of the range but with dairy, it's always elevated. I suspect it's because it doesn't inflame my intestines like dairy does.

Milk and cheese are freaking delicious.

Ohh...yeah! And such a quick and easy way to get protein. I miss being able to eat immediately and have hardly any cleanup afterwards.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Who finds on here they do better with certain dairy product types more than others?

Milk i seem to do horrible on,

Cheese it seems i only get a metabolic response from cheese made with rennet,

Cheeses made with microbial enzymes seem to make me cold after esting them even with salt,

(If anyone knows anything they can share on microbial enzymes thatd be great)

Peat talks about them being harmful or allergenic but doesnt go further into detail, my assumption is there is fungal or pathogenic contamination or something like aspergillus in cheeses made with microbial enzymes,

YOGURT seems to give me the most metabolic response! I do fat free greek yogurt with low lactic acid and i usually add white sugar and pectin free jam and i find i get a major metabolic boost from yogurt, its concentrated with the protein and calcium,

And im curious if the natural bacterialculture in yogurt is protective against any possible harmful pathogens in dairy?

Liquid milk seems to be the worst offender for me.

 

[Ania]

I cannot accept milk at all. It causes severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. It took me many years to figure it out. I am happy I discovered it. It was lots of suffering. I found that I am not the only one. There are other people who have this reaction to dairy, but in general I think statistically it is a very rare condition.

 

[schultz]

Do you like maple syrup? Milk and maple syrup is a yummy combination IMO. It's like the milk at the bottom of a bowl of cereal. :)

My wife and I realized our 6 year old and 3 year old were pulling the jug of maple syrup out of the fridge and filling their cups of milk indiscriminately with syrup. Now when we offer to put a little syrup in their milk they complain that it's not brown enough. Apparently they just added it until the whole thing turned brown... I heard my 3 year old arguing with my wife in his broken english "It needs to be brown!!!". I tried it myself and it takes quite a bit of syrup to make the milk turn that colour.

It's the same here in New Hampshire. I'm surrounded by both large scale and small scale farms and neighbors who have cows, donkeys, goats, horses etc. and the animals are out grazing all day, except for the coldest part of the winter and when the ground is covered in snow. We even have quite a few 100% grass-based biodynamic farms and the calfs are kept with the mothers in the barn (something I greatly appreciate). I even know of popular brands like Organic Valley source their milk from small, local farms. In terms of treatment (looking at it through a vegan lense), the only thing I'm not sure of is if they all breed via a romp in the hay with a bull (lol) or artificial insemination. I just know that none of the many farms around me or that I have visited look anything like what is seen in vegan documentaries. The farms don't even smell, which was a shock to me when I started consuming animal proteins again after fracturing.

Not that farmers don't care about the cows more than just them being an investment, but they are an investment and so it's wise for them to care for their herds, which is something I believe Ray has acknowledged and could be one reason why he doesn't have an issue with drinking commercial milk.

I lived in the Boston area for a couple years and I think the meat CSA we subscribed to was located in New Hampshire. Maybe it was just northern Mass. For a while (maybe a year) we would drive down to Foxboro every week to pick up raw milk. They also had a meat freezer with organs and stuff in it that you could purchase. It was called Lawton's Family Farm. There were all kinds of quality food products available when I lived there. I don't think you guys realize how lucky you are to have access to all that stuff. The cheese was so cheap!! Cheese is triple the price here in Canada for a good imported cheese. I used to buy a kerrygold butter with a coupon for $2 off a kerrygold cheese on it, making the cheese $1!! In Canada that same cheese is like $8.

@schultz thanks mate. Good posts (I also live in Ontario )

Thank you. Seems like there are a bunch of people from Canada on the forum. I'm in the Niagara region myself.

@schultz thats awesome guys im from ontario too!! Aha this makes things easier, what brands of milk do you guys drink? And how do you find it makes you feel?

Sealtest and natrel are pretty much the only options here, i always have such mixed results theres never any consistancy with feeling good, and Ray has mentioned actually how milk can be allergenic in some cases with factory farming because your not drinking the milk of the same cow its usually multiple cows milk mixed into one 2L container, so regarding pathogens etc. Its so hard to track and get consistancy for things like things,

If one of the cows is infected with MAP or has johnes disease, then you will never know because some containers could have milk from healthy non infected cows and other containers could have milk from a cow infected with MAP and johnes disease, honestly this could be one of the reasons why sometimes i drink it and feel amazing then the same brand and everything ill have a horrible experience with it next time and the cycle goes on and on

I guess I drink Sealtest lol. I had to check my fridge. Usually I think we actually get the Neilson brand. It depends on which store we are at. I do fine on most milk so I don't think I am going to be helpful. The only milk I didn't like was the generic milk I purchased in the States one time. I found it had a funny flavour and I didn't trust it. Lately we have been getting milk from the 7/11 when we are in town (don't laugh) because they have the milk in 4 litre jugs instead of the bags. That brand is called 'Dairyland'. So I have been just drinking 1 of them everyday which makes it easy to remember how much I've had.

My sister buys one of the expensive ones from Zehrs. It's Rolling Meadows I think.

I keep wanting to buy a cow, so I think that's the direction I am heading.

 

[Runenight201]

My wife and I realized our 6 year old and 3 year old were pulling the jug of maple syrup out of the fridge and filling their cups of milk indiscriminately with syrup. Now when we offer to put a little syrup in their milk they complain that it's not brown enough. Apparently they just added it until the whole thing turned brown... I heard my 3 year old arguing with my wife in his broken english "It needs to be brown!!!". I tried it myself and it takes quite a bit of syrup to make the milk turn that colour.



I lived in the Boston area for a couple years and I think the meat CSA we subscribed to was located in New Hampshire. Maybe it was just northern Mass. For a while (maybe a year) we would drive down to Foxboro every week to pick up raw milk. They also had a meat freezer with organs and stuff in it that you could purchase. It was called Lawton's Family Farm. There were all kinds of quality food products available when I lived there. I don't think you guys realize how lucky you are to have access to all that stuff. The cheese was so cheap!! Cheese is triple the price here in Canada for a good imported cheese. I used to buy a kerrygold butter with a coupon for $2 off a kerrygold cheese on it, making the cheese $1!! In Canada that same cheese is like $8.



Thank you. Seems like there are a bunch of people from Canada on the forum. I'm in the Niagara region myself.



I guess I drink Sealtest lol. I had to check my fridge. Usually I think we actually get the Neilson brand. It depends on which store we are at. I do fine on most milk so I don't think I am going to be helpful. The only milk I didn't like was the generic milk I purchased in the States one time. I found it had a funny flavour and I didn't trust it. Lately we have been getting milk from the 7/11 when we are in town (don't laugh) because they have the milk in 4 litre jugs instead of the bags. That brand is called 'Dairyland'. So I have been just drinking 1 of them everyday which makes it easy to remember how much I've had.

My sister buys one of the expensive ones from Zehrs. It's Rolling Meadows I think.

I keep wanting to buy a cow, so I think that's the direction I am heading.

Have you ever thought of making a latte and seeing if your children preferred that?

My train of thought is the body knows best, but it has to be exposed to the all the options to know what it prefers. A child works within the environment they are raised in, but as they mature they are exposed to more and more foods and combinations and as a result the taste refines. I loved cereal as a kid because of the sugar and milk, but it took me 25 years to figure out that it wasn’t quite as good as removing the starch from the equation and putting in coffee!

I’ve often wondered if I were to have kids whether I would get them on coffee from their infancy. The child brain is hyperplastic, for good reason, but if given the option of making them even more precocious....why not?

 

[ExCarniv]

I would get them on coffee from their infancy.

"Cafe con leche" is quite common for childrens in South America.

 

[schultz]

Have you ever thought of making a latte and seeing if your children preferred that?

My train of thought is the body knows best, but it has to be exposed to the all the options to know what it prefers. A child works within the environment they are raised in, but as they mature they are exposed to more and more foods and combinations and as a result the taste refines. I loved cereal as a kid because of the sugar and milk, but it took me 25 years to figure out that it wasn’t quite as good as removing the starch from the equation and putting in coffee!

I’ve often wondered if I were to have kids whether I would get them on coffee from their infancy. The child brain is hyperplastic, for good reason, but if given the option of making them even more precocious....why not?

Yah, they drink lattes semi-regularly. They go through different phases. Currently they like to ask for milk with melted chocolate in it. Sometimes they just want what mommy or daddy has.

In public people frown upon that sort of behaviour, like ordering a latte at Starbucks for a 3 year old, even if it's decaf. I think it's funny though. My little guy ordered a latte at a fancy restaurant one time and it came in a huge mug. I probably have a picture somewhere...

 

[Jennifer]

My wife and I realized our 6 year old and 3 year old were pulling the jug of maple syrup out of the fridge and filling their cups of milk indiscriminately with syrup. Now when we offer to put a little syrup in their milk they complain that it's not brown enough. Apparently they just added it until the whole thing turned brown... I heard my 3 year old arguing with my wife in his broken english "It needs to be brown!!!". I tried it myself and it takes quite a bit of syrup to make the milk turn that colour.

Haha! Just how I liked it — a little milk in my maple syrup. :) I love maple syrup so much, I even put it on my eggs.

I don't think you guys realize how lucky you are to have access to all that stuff. The cheese was so cheap!! Cheese is triple the price here in Canada for a good imported cheese. I used to buy a kerrygold butter with a coupon for $2 off a kerrygold cheese on it, making the cheese $1!! In Canada that same cheese is like $8.

That must be why my family moved out of Québec. lol But yeah, we are lucky. New Hampshire is a freedom loving state so not surprisingly, we're one of only 11 (?) states where it's legal to sell raw milk at retail stores. Even a decade back I was buying raw milk at an actual store in the city.

That's crazy Kerrygold cheese costs $8 there. I was buying raw cheese, made by a Mennonite family, for $8lb at a farm I used to go to near the Mass border — I'm only 45 minutes from Boston. The farm I go to now has a store located in their barn that looks like a mini market with everything they carry. Besides the standard raw milk, cream and buttermilk most farms here offer, they make different varieties of yogurt such as raw, cream top and fat-free Greek, a variety of cheese such as cream, cottage and artisan cheeses, butter including flavored varieties like herb, lemon garlic and cinnamon, ice cream etc., all from their own 100% grass-fed herd. They sell different varieties of meat, and even make their own deli style meat like liverwurst, organs, bones, bone broth, tallow, lard, soy-free eggs, tons of produce they grow themselves but also source from local farms and orchards, local artisan bread, granola, maple syrup, honey, jam and coffee, hand-made body products and greeting cards, and the list goes on.

 

[schultz]

Haha! Just how I liked it — a little milk in my maple syrup. :) I love maple syrup so much, I even put it on my eggs.

That must be why my family moved out of Québec. lol But yeah, we are lucky. New Hampshire is a freedom loving state so not surprisingly, we're one of only 11 (?) states where it's legal to sell raw milk at retail stores. Even a decade back I was buying raw milk at an actual store in the city.

That's crazy Kerrygold cheese costs $8 there. I was buying raw cheese, made by a Mennonite family, for $8lb at a farm I used to go to near the Mass border — I'm only 45 minutes from Boston. The farm I go to now has a store located in their barn that looks like a mini market with everything they carry. Besides the standard raw milk, cream and buttermilk most farms here offer, they make different varieties of yogurt such as raw, cream top and fat-free Greek, a variety of cheese such as cream, cottage and artisan cheeses, butter including flavored varieties like herb, lemon garlic and cinnamon, ice cream etc., all from their own 100% grass-fed herd. They sell different varieties of meat, and even make their own deli style meat like liverwurst, organs, bones, bone broth, tallow, lard, soy-free eggs, tons of produce they grow themselves but also source from local farms and orchards, local artisan bread, granola, maple syrup, honey, jam and coffee, hand-made body products and greeting cards, and the list goes on.

That sounds amazing. I definitely miss the area for all the access to good food.