Dairy causes acne

[JacobG]

I was wondering how dairy may cause acne?

When I consume milk products I always get pimples around the face and the back. This even happens with no-lactose dairy like butter but is more pronounced with things like cream.

My digestion is totally fine so I am a little in the dark what the mechanism is.

What is your experience with it?

 

[Riesensackteil]

Steroids or increased steroidgenesis.
I get a bit of acne when I am under red light for long

 

[JacobG]

Hm that is an interesting angle I have not considered yet.

 

[Dr. B]

I was wondering how dairy may cause acne?

When I consume milk products I always get pimples around the face and the back. This even happens with no-lactose dairy like butter but is more pronounced with things like cream.

My digestion is totally fine so I am a little in the dark what the mechanism is.

What is your experience with it?

hormones in the dairy, or hormonal effect from other substances. it may be that the dairy has toxic filler ingredients and added vitamins, or is A1 dairy. i dont think it should be giving pimples. A1 milk gives me effects like some pimples and skin redness and mild digestive troubles.

 

[JacobG]

I have tried both A2 & A1. I have not noticed a large difference. However, when I ferment the dairy for long to kefir it seems better. So perhaps it has something to do with the microbiome?

 

[mrchibbs]

Anything which speeds up metabolism / hormone synthesis in a context of some nutritional deficiency has the potential to cause skin issues.

From the literature, usually people with acne are deficient in vitamin A, E and zinc, among others. For instance sunshine can trigger acne, but if you balance it with ample supply of vitamin A (say from liver), then the acne goes away completely. Vitamin E and Zinc interact with vitamin A.

Basically, if you have acne well into adulthood it's likely you have some nutritional deficiency or even a "dependency" of certain vitamins and minerals. In other words, an epigenetic effect of needing more of certain nutrients.

I stopped all dairy when I was about 18-19, thinking it was the cause of my acne, and it lead to severe health issues in the coming years. Dairy is a great food, with protein, calcium, minerals and even some hormones and it suppresses parathyroid expression while boosting metabolism. It's essential in our society IMO, with EMFs and all of the other stressors.

Basically fast forward several years later, and I can drink milk, eat cheese you name it and it has no effect on my acne at all, as long as I get enough sunshine and nutrients.

Foods which irritate my digestive tract (grains, legumes and poor quality foods of all kinds), usually can trigger a cutaneous reaction pretty quickly though.

 

[SOMO]

Milk is also fermented in the gut, so yes it's at least partially a microbiome issue.

Most cases of mild acne can be prevented or cured easily with Salicylic Acid - the gold standard of anti-acne skincare.

Consuming vegetable oils consistently gives me acne in 24 hours.

If dairy is giving you acne try taking a digestive enzyme with it (one that helps break down proteins, not lactose, but most digestive enzymes will help with both.)

 

[Dr. B]

Milk is also fermented in the gut, so yes it's at least partially a microbiome issue.

Most cases of mild acne can be prevented or cured easily with Salicylic Acid - the gold standard of anti-acne skincare.

Consuming vegetable oils consistently gives me acne in 24 hours.

If dairy is giving you acne try taking a digestive enzyme with it (one that helps break down proteins, not lactose, but most digestive enzymes will help with both.)

so you mean aspirin would cure aspirin easily? by what mechanism? aspirin did seem to have a skin drying and hair drying effect, any ideas on why. something with prostaglandins?

Anything which speeds up metabolism / hormone synthesis in a context of some nutritional deficiency has the potential to cause skin issues.

From the literature, usually people with acne are deficient in vitamin A, E and zinc, among others. For instance sunshine can trigger acne, but if you balance it with ample supply of vitamin A (say from liver), then the acne goes away completely. Vitamin E and Zinc interact with vitamin A.

Basically, if you have acne well into adulthood it's likely you have some nutritional deficiency or even a "dependency" of certain vitamins and minerals. In other words, an epigenetic effect of needing more of certain nutrients.

I stopped all dairy when I was about 18-19, thinking it was the cause of my acne, and it lead to severe health issues in the coming years. Dairy is a great food, with protein, calcium, minerals and even some hormones and it suppresses parathyroid expression while boosting metabolism. It's essential in our society IMO, with EMFs and all of the other stressors.

Basically fast forward several years later, and I can drink milk, eat cheese you name it and it has no effect on my acne at all, as long as I get enough sunshine and nutrients.

Foods which irritate my digestive tract (grains, legumes and poor quality foods of all kinds), usually can trigger a cutaneous reaction pretty quickly though.

which nutrients do you think are involved in acne?
what about cushings or semi cushings? people with high cortisol have weight gain, poor wound healing, acne, easy bruising etc. are the nutrients which improve acne also nutrients that help heal cushings/high cortisol? in that case which nutrients do you think are relevant.
can sunshine/red light be replaced with vitamin d3/cholecalciferol supplements

 

[SOMO]

so you mean aspirin would cure aspirin easily? by what mechanism? aspirin did seem to have a skin drying and hair drying effect, any ideas on why. something with prostaglandins?

Oral aspirin is extremely likely to help acne, because acne is an inflammatory skin condition and the aspirin in larger doses would encourage skin shedding and block prostaglandins. Acne is less likely to form if you wash your face with SA/ASA because it increases the cell turnover of the skin (how fast the skin cells shed). I believe this is the same method by which aspirin causes stomach bleeding, by shedding the upper most layer of cells. All acids have this effect when applied on the skin that's why people pay a lot of money for those professional peels (glycolic acid, TCA, etc.) because the results are noticeable and quick, if you can deal with the skin peeling.

I don't know how much oral aspirin you'd have to take to increase the skin cell turnover, but topical would be more reliable.

The sebum that is excreted from our skin/hair follicles can get clogged. There is some evidence that the skin of acne-prone people is deficient in Linoleic Acid (yes, PUFA, the bad kind) and higher in Oleic Acid. I posted about this a while ago, even though it's very clearly Anti-Peat to suggest Omega-6 PUFA may be beneficial for anything.

ACNE = Linoleic-Acid DEFICIENCY? Corn Oil For Acne?

Note: This topic is NOT about the CONSUMPTION/INTERNAL use of unsaturated fats. I do not believe anyone should consume vegetable oils due to their inherent stability , but this topic deals with the TOPICAL administration of these oils directly to the skin. I also don't believe applying topical...

raypeatforum.com

I think the reason for this is that the LA is immune-suppressive. Also the OA-rich sebum is "thicker" and more likely to clog the skin as it is being excreted, LA being liquid at room temperature is actually less likely to clog the pores, but may be worse for skin health overall. Excess sebum (not necessarily the same as oily skin) can cause acne. OA is absorbed into the skin efficiently. I am not sure if applying MCTs or SFA would have the same effects - if OA can clog pores you would expect SFA to clog them even more but this doesn't seem to be the case based off how many people use Coconut Oil as a moisturizer, which leads me to believe that yes prostaglandins have something to do with the sebum consistency. OA might not even be the issue, it could be one of the prostaglandins it converts to. At the end of the day, the safest bet is to limit the vegetable oils and replace their intake with SFA because the SFA do not seem to cause acne.

There is also another chemical called Squalene which converts into Lanosterol, but if your steroid conversion is blocked/restricted, you will increase the squalene content of the skin and this is also an acne culprit. So oxidized OA and squalene:

Enhanced comedo formation in rabbit ear skin by squalene and oleic acid peroxides - PubMed

The comedogenicity of UVA-irradiated and non-irradiated substances (squalene, oleic acid, tetradecane, isopropyl myristate, squalane and liquid paraffin) was evaluated by surface microscopy and histological examination after treating the ventral skin of rabbit ears with these substances. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Actually, prostaglandins (and bacteria) are associated with virtually every negative skin condition - eczema, psoriasis, dermatitis, rosacea, and hives/itchiness.

I don't recall the name of the product, but there is a medication for dogs with skin issues that is basically Linoleic Acid and you're supposed to rub it on the dog's neck or behind the ears where they can't lick it off, and apparently the absorption from placing it on the neck/ears can improve the skin issue even if it's not on the neck/ears.

Excess sebum may be a sign of inefficient steroid conversion so - cholesterol deficiency, B3 deficiency, low thyroid, low Vitamin A all probably cause acne. Accutane, lo and behold, dries up sebum and reduces its production, so less acne formation. I don't know if Cushing's causes acne, but if more cholesterol is being diverted towards cortisol production, then it probably does, but I would not suspect Cushing's as the primary cause.

 

[Dr. B]

Oral aspirin is extremely likely to help acne, because acne is an inflammatory skin condition and the aspirin in larger doses would encourage skin shedding and block prostaglandins. Acne is less likely to form if you wash your face with SA/ASA because it increases the cell turnover of the skin (how fast the skin cells shed). I believe this is the same method by which aspirin causes stomach bleeding, by shedding the upper most layer of cells. All acids have this effect when applied on the skin that's why people pay a lot of money for those professional peels (glycolic acid, TCA, etc.) because the results are noticeable and quick, if you can deal with the skin peeling.

I don't know how much oral aspirin you'd have to take to increase the skin cell turnover, but topical would be more reliable.

The sebum that is excreted from our skin/hair follicles can get clogged. There is some evidence that the skin of acne-prone people is deficient in Linoleic Acid (yes, PUFA, the bad kind) and higher in Oleic Acid. I posted about this a while ago, even though it's very clearly Anti-Peat to suggest Omega-6 PUFA may be beneficial for anything.

ACNE = Linoleic-Acid DEFICIENCY? Corn Oil For Acne?

Note: This topic is NOT about the CONSUMPTION/INTERNAL use of unsaturated fats. I do not believe anyone should consume vegetable oils due to their inherent stability , but this topic deals with the TOPICAL administration of these oils directly to the skin. I also don't believe applying topical...

raypeatforum.com

I think the reason for this is that the LA is immune-suppressive. Also the OA-rich sebum is "thicker" and more likely to clog the skin as it is being excreted, LA being liquid at room temperature is actually less likely to clog the pores, but may be worse for skin health overall. Excess sebum (not necessarily the same as oily skin) can cause acne. OA is absorbed into the skin efficiently. I am not sure if applying MCTs or SFA would have the same effects - if OA can clog pores you would expect SFA to clog them even more but this doesn't seem to be the case based off how many people use Coconut Oil as a moisturizer, which leads me to believe that yes prostaglandins have something to do with the sebum consistency. OA might not even be the issue, it could be one of the prostaglandins it converts to. At the end of the day, the safest bet is to limit the vegetable oils and replace their intake with SFA because the SFA do not seem to cause acne.

There is also another chemical called Squalene which converts into Lanosterol, but if your steroid conversion is blocked/restricted, you will increase the squalene content of the skin and this is also an acne culprit. So oxidized OA and squalene:

Enhanced comedo formation in rabbit ear skin by squalene and oleic acid peroxides - PubMed

The comedogenicity of UVA-irradiated and non-irradiated substances (squalene, oleic acid, tetradecane, isopropyl myristate, squalane and liquid paraffin) was evaluated by surface microscopy and histological examination after treating the ventral skin of rabbit ears with these substances. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Actually, prostaglandins (and bacteria) are associated with virtually every negative skin condition - eczema, psoriasis, dermatitis, rosacea, and hives/itchiness.

I don't recall the name of the product, but there is a medication for dogs with skin issues that is basically Linoleic Acid and you're supposed to rub it on the dog's neck or behind the ears where they can't lick it off, and apparently the absorption from placing it on the neck/ears can improve the skin issue even if it's not on the neck/ears.

Excess sebum may be a sign of inefficient steroid conversion so - cholesterol deficiency, B3 deficiency, low thyroid, low Vitamin A all probably cause acne. Accutane, lo and behold, dries up sebum and reduces its production, so less acne formation. I don't know if Cushing's causes acne, but if more cholesterol is being diverted towards cortisol production, then it probably does, but I would not suspect Cushing's as the primary cause.

interesting. I dont think its anti Peat to say omega 3/6 have benefits, Peat himself probably admits as such its just in the majority of cases the risks outweigh them. Peat's admitted to omega 3 being anti inflammatory and admitted to pufa being useful for organ transplants and other cases.

doesnt lanosterol then convert to cholesterol? those are interesting things, I have tried getting peats thoughts on those two molecules, especially since he likes cholesterol and likes pregnenolone I was always wondering why he hasnt talked about squalene and lanosterol supplementation. Actually I asked him about squalene and he said it's not good and sent me a bunch of studies showing it causes blackheads, acne, etc. But if squalene is a precursor to cholesterol isnt it actually a good thing? The only natural foods containing it are shark liver oil and olive oil i think.

how is b3 involved in steroid conversion?
btw, what about policasonols? theyre lipid lowering agents. is it worth buying em, theyre sold as a standalone supplement.

how would you heal cushings/high cortisol levels. most websites have cushings listed as causing acne, its maybe related to its immuno suppressant effect. cushings people have poor wound healing, easy bruising, acne, more vulnerable to infections.

if prostaglandins cause the acne then wouldnt omega 3 and 6 worsen acne?

 

[JacobG]

Anything which speeds up metabolism / hormone synthesis in a context of some nutritional deficiency has the potential to cause skin issues.

From the literature, usually people with acne are deficient in vitamin A, E and zinc, among others. For instance sunshine can trigger acne, but if you balance it with ample supply of vitamin A (say from liver), then the acne goes away completely. Vitamin E and Zinc interact with vitamin A.

Basically, if you have acne well into adulthood it's likely you have some nutritional deficiency or even a "dependency" of certain vitamins and minerals. In other words, an epigenetic effect of needing more of certain nutrients.

I stopped all dairy when I was about 18-19, thinking it was the cause of my acne, and it lead to severe health issues in the coming years. Dairy is a great food, with protein, calcium, minerals and even some hormones and it suppresses parathyroid expression while boosting metabolism. It's essential in our society IMO, with EMFs and all of the other stressors.

Basically fast forward several years later, and I can drink milk, eat cheese you name it and it has no effect on my acne at all, as long as I get enough sunshine and nutrients.

Foods which irritate my digestive tract (grains, legumes and poor quality foods of all kinds), usually can trigger a cutaneous reaction pretty quickly though.

I doubt nutritional inadequacy is the cause. I have eaten a pound of liver a week for years. When I exclude dairy I have zero acne.

 

[SamYo123]

Oral aspirin is extremely likely to help acne, because acne is an inflammatory skin condition and the aspirin in larger doses would encourage skin shedding and block prostaglandins. Acne is less likely to form if you wash your face with SA/ASA because it increases the cell turnover of the skin (how fast the skin cells shed). I believe this is the same method by which aspirin causes stomach bleeding, by shedding the upper most layer of cells. All acids have this effect when applied on the skin that's why people pay a lot of money for those professional peels (glycolic acid, TCA, etc.) because the results are noticeable and quick, if you can deal with the skin peeling.

I don't know how much oral aspirin you'd have to take to increase the skin cell turnover, but topical would be more reliable.

The sebum that is excreted from our skin/hair follicles can get clogged. There is some evidence that the skin of acne-prone people is deficient in Linoleic Acid (yes, PUFA, the bad kind) and higher in Oleic Acid. I posted about this a while ago, even though it's very clearly Anti-Peat to suggest Omega-6 PUFA may be beneficial for anything.

ACNE = Linoleic-Acid DEFICIENCY? Corn Oil For Acne?

Note: This topic is NOT about the CONSUMPTION/INTERNAL use of unsaturated fats. I do not believe anyone should consume vegetable oils due to their inherent stability , but this topic deals with the TOPICAL administration of these oils directly to the skin. I also don't believe applying topical...

raypeatforum.com

I think the reason for this is that the LA is immune-suppressive. Also the OA-rich sebum is "thicker" and more likely to clog the skin as it is being excreted, LA being liquid at room temperature is actually less likely to clog the pores, but may be worse for skin health overall. Excess sebum (not necessarily the same as oily skin) can cause acne. OA is absorbed into the skin efficiently. I am not sure if applying MCTs or SFA would have the same effects - if OA can clog pores you would expect SFA to clog them even more but this doesn't seem to be the case based off how many people use Coconut Oil as a moisturizer, which leads me to believe that yes prostaglandins have something to do with the sebum consistency. OA might not even be the issue, it could be one of the prostaglandins it converts to. At the end of the day, the safest bet is to limit the vegetable oils and replace their intake with SFA because the SFA do not seem to cause acne.

There is also another chemical called Squalene which converts into Lanosterol, but if your steroid conversion is blocked/restricted, you will increase the squalene content of the skin and this is also an acne culprit. So oxidized OA and squalene:

Enhanced comedo formation in rabbit ear skin by squalene and oleic acid peroxides - PubMed

The comedogenicity of UVA-irradiated and non-irradiated substances (squalene, oleic acid, tetradecane, isopropyl myristate, squalane and liquid paraffin) was evaluated by surface microscopy and histological examination after treating the ventral skin of rabbit ears with these substances. The...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Actually, prostaglandins (and bacteria) are associated with virtually every negative skin condition - eczema, psoriasis, dermatitis, rosacea, and hives/itchiness.

I don't recall the name of the product, but there is a medication for dogs with skin issues that is basically Linoleic Acid and you're supposed to rub it on the dog's neck or behind the ears where they can't lick it off, and apparently the absorption from placing it on the neck/ears can improve the skin issue even if it's not on the neck/ears.

Excess sebum may be a sign of inefficient steroid conversion so - cholesterol deficiency, B3 deficiency, low thyroid, low Vitamin A all probably cause acne. Accutane, lo and behold, dries up sebum and reduces its production, so less acne formation. I don't know if Cushing's causes acne, but if more cholesterol is being diverted towards cortisol production, then it probably does, but I would not suspect Cushing's as the primary cause.

Or its this

Sugar spikes IGF-1. IGF-1 activates SREBP-1. SREBP-1 increases viscosity of sebum leading to the oily skin you’re experiencing.

Nothing to do with SIBO.

IGF-1 induces SREBP-1 expression and lipogenesis in SEB-1 sebocytes via activation of the phosphoinositide 3-kinase/Akt pathway. - PubMed - NCBI

@Travis has talked about it in more detail.

Sugar Causes SEVERE Oily Skin/seb Derm

I just want to preface this by saying I have irrefutably confirmed this, a process of elimination and testing and retesting has confirmed that sugar, regardless of its form (processed/natural) is the cause of my severely oily skin and seborrheic dermatitis (entire face/scalp/facial hair area)...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Zigzag]

Or its this

Sugar spikes IGF-1. IGF-1 activates SREBP-1. SREBP-1 increases viscosity of sebum leading to the oily skin you’re experiencing.

Nothing to do with SIBO.

IGF-1 induces SREBP-1 expression and lipogenesis in SEB-1 sebocytes via activation of the phosphoinositide 3-kinase/Akt pathway. - PubMed - NCBI

@Travis has talked about it in more detail.

Sugar Causes SEVERE Oily Skin/seb Derm

I just want to preface this by saying I have irrefutably confirmed this, a process of elimination and testing and retesting has confirmed that sugar, regardless of its form (processed/natural) is the cause of my severely oily skin and seborrheic dermatitis (entire face/scalp/facial hair area)...

raypeatforum.com

Keto it is then. What a life.

It would explain why I'm doing fairly good when there are no starches in my diet.
On the other hand why would I experience this massive oiliness localized in forehead only? The rest of my face and body is completely clean.

 

[JacobG]

Stable blood sugar is required for a healthy life for sure. But that doesn't appear to be enough. I can do carnivore and get acne once I introduce butter for a couple of days.

 

[ThinPicking]

It's homogenisation that does it friend.

Travis elucidated the mechanism on this form years ago. RIP

 

[JacobG]

@ThinPicking Not sure, I have been using raw dairy and similar problems were present.

 

[ursidae]

Is the hormones in the fat. I also break out from butter. Maybe it’s a liver problem and a healthy liver would be able to deal with an excess of them. Most people who break out from dairy have no problem with butter and the problem is casein, so I’d say our situation is a bit unusual. How do you react to zero fat dairy?
Personally low fat organic pasture raised goat milk kefir boiled to remove bacteria, warmed up to body temperature with turmeric, ginger and cinnamon added is the most agreeable but even that one gives me acne eventually. This form of dairy is low/predigested protein, low fat, no lactose and no bacteria so it’s a bit like calcium enriched water but still gives me hormonal effects

the acnegenic components in dairy are the prolactin, IGF-1 the androstenedione, and for some people estrogen/progesterone. I am prone to having the first three in excess and maybe dairy tips me over the edge hormonally. Someone who is supplementing a lot of thyroid will likely overcome this hormonal problem (would tank their prolactin at the very least) but I am too cautious to experiment with it due to the heart attack risks.

 

[ursidae]

Anything which speeds up metabolism / hormone synthesis in a context of some nutritional deficiency has the potential to cause skin issues.

From the literature, usually people with acne are deficient in vitamin A, E and zinc, among others. For instance sunshine can trigger acne, but if you balance it with ample supply of vitamin A (say from liver), then the acne goes away completely. Vitamin E and Zinc interact with vitamin A.

Basically, if you have acne well into adulthood it's likely you have some nutritional deficiency or even a "dependency" of certain vitamins and minerals. In other words, an epigenetic effect of needing more of certain nutrients.

I stopped all dairy when I was about 18-19, thinking it was the cause of my acne, and it lead to severe health issues in the coming years. Dairy is a great food, with protein, calcium, minerals and even some hormones and it suppresses parathyroid expression while boosting metabolism. It's essential in our society IMO, with EMFs and all of the other stressors.

Basically fast forward several years later, and I can drink milk, eat cheese you name it and it has no effect on my acne at all, as long as I get enough sunshine and nutrients.

Foods which irritate my digestive tract (grains, legumes and poor quality foods of all kinds), usually can trigger a cutaneous reaction pretty quickly though.

You resuming your consumption of dairy coincided with you starting to take thyroid as part of the peat protocol, no? The result was different this time because of your altered hormonal profile due to thyroid supplementation

 

[JacobG]

Is the hormones in the fat. I also break out from butter. Maybe it’s a liver problem and a healthy liver would be able to deal with an excess of them. Most people who break out from dairy have no problem with butter and the problem is casein, so I’d say our situation is a bit unusual. How do you react to zero fat dairy?
Personally low fat organic pasture raised goat milk kefir boiled to remove bacteria, warmed up to body temperature with turmeric, ginger and cinnamon added is the most agreeable but even that one gives me acne eventually. This form of dairy is low/predigested protein, low fat, no lactose and no bacteria so it’s a bit like calcium enriched water but still gives me hormonal effects

the acnegenic components in dairy are the prolactin, IGF-1 the androstenedione, and for some people estrogen/progesterone. I am prone to having the first three in excess and maybe dairy tips me over the edge hormonally. Someone who is supplementing a lot of thyroid will likely overcome this hormonal problem (would tank their prolactin at the very least) but I am too cautious to experiment with it due to the heart attack risks.

I agree that hormones from the dairy are likely to be the problem. I have not tried zero fat dairy but will test it as an experiment.

 

[PurpleHeart]

I was wondering how dairy may cause acne?

When I consume milk products I always get pimples around the face and the back. This even happens with no-lactose dairy like butter but is more pronounced with things like cream.

My digestion is totally fine so I am a little in the dark what the mechanism is.

What is your experience with it?

Are you of European descend? Europeans shouldn't have any trouble with dairy, maybe if you are Asian you should stop drinking milk.

Also switching to Goat milk can solve all your problems, I don't even understand why people drink cow milk, it tastes like water while goat milk smells and tastes awesome, cow milk being cheaper is the only reason I can see, so if you can afford Goat milk and Goat ,Sheep dairy then switch to that.