Losing My Faith In Dairy (bad Source Of Calcium?)

[JohnBonham]

I always have issues when I do large amounts of milk...or really any liquid at one time. If the egg shells are working for you, what's the problem?

I actually prefer cheese over milk. I'm just wondering why I can take in 2000 mg of calcium (some days 3000+) from dairy and still have symptoms. Yet when I stop with the dairy and eat a teaspoon of eggshells in which I'm getting a fraction of the calcium my symptoms start to disappear. My only problem is that I'm questioning the bioavailability of the calcium in milk. Thanks for the reply!

 

[JohnBonham]

What does the rest of your diet look like?

Dairy is a good source of calcium, but it also has a very high amount of phosphorous. If you are also eating meat or other high phosphorous foods you may be tipping the balance away from calcium. RP has said that the ratio of calcium: phosphorous is more important than the absolute amount of calcium.

I'm looking in to this. Thank you!!

 

[JohnBonham]

Yeah, there is a specific mechanism just for calcium. It stimulates the release of gastrin into the blood that in turn stimulates acid release in the stomach. Since it is a multi step process maybe there are various things that can go wrong. Maybe even things like vagus nerve tone or being stressed before or after consuming the milk can affect the acid release.

Calcium stimulation of gastrin and gastric acid secretion: effect of small doses of calcium carbonate.

I appreciate this very much. Thanks, friend!

 

[JohnBonham]

If this thread had been about wheat, the first response would have been 'drop the food; why are you eating that if it's doing that to you'.

Not necessarily, though I understand what you're saying. This is really about the bioavailability of the calcium. I feel the same whether I cut out the dairy or have it everyday. That is, muscle spasms, hard time sleeping, etc. It was only when I added in a non-dairy calcium source that I felt better.

 

[JohnBonham]

It absolutely does not deplete calcium; that's absolutely ridiculous. You just need more calcium. 1 - 2 grams more than milk provides you.

Like I said, I definitely trusted Peat over that. My problem is I get 2000 mg (sometimes 3000+) from Dairy. Yet, when I cut out dairy and get considerably less calcium total from eggshells, my symptoms start to disappear. This just leads me to question the bioavailability of milk. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Such_Saturation]

But why test everything except calcium? Also over 2 grams will start suppressing parathyroid hormone, which could otherwise be getting you extra calcium. But all these symptoms seem more like irritation or there could even be D2 in the milk.

 

[milk_lover]

The availability of calcium from milk is around 300-500 mg/kg, so to reach 2g of calcium from milk, you'll need to drink little above a gallon. And that's a lot of liquid. What type of milk do you drink? I heard ultra pasteurization may affect the availability of calcium.

 

[tristan1234]

In Ray's interview on calcium on the another school of thought show he talks about how milk and the effect on the body can differ so much from dairy farm to dairy farm.

 

[Giraffe]

I'm just wondering why I can take in 2000 mg of calcium (some days 3000+) from dairy and still have symptoms. Yet when I stop with the dairy and eat a teaspoon of eggshells in which I'm getting a fraction of the calcium my symptoms start to disappear. My only problem is that I'm questioning the bioavailability of the calcium in milk.

It's the calcium-phosphorus ratio that matters. This is quite good in milk and most cheeses. A teaspoon of eggshell powder equals ~ 2,000 mg calcium.

The richest and best-absorbed Ca source is cow's milk and its derivatives. Other foods show high Ca concentrations but variable bioavailability: foods rich in phytates and oxalates show a smaller absorption and carbohydrate-rich foods show higher absorption.

[Bioavailability of dietary calcium]. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[mayweatherking]

I love the idea of dairy being the main staple of my diet. It's convenient, inexpensive (mostly), and I adore the flavor. I have had a large amount of dairy every single day for quite some time. Because of this, I would think that I'm getting enough calcium that my body needs. Instead of this, I've been getting all kinds of Calcium Deficiency symptoms like insomnia, fatigue, feeling on edge, dry skin and nails, and the worst of all, full body MUSCLE SPASMS constantly throughout the day and that makes sleep a very difficult thing to do.

My magnesium RBC and potassium are perfect (In fact potassium makes spasms and everything else worse. Maybe raises aldosterone lowering calcium?), Thyroid panel perfect, Vitamin D a tiny but low but still good, C-Reactive protein great, Anemia panel perfect, I get plenty of salt and minerals due to my diet. The only thing I can think of to cause my symptoms is lack of calcium. But I should be getting tons of it!

So, in desperation, I made some eggshell powder calcium yesterday and voila, I slept much better after ages of not sleeping. I've spend enough money on supplements over the years to know how to identify a placebo effect. I lost water weight, my face is much more defined and I'm 6'1 170 pounds so I'm slender to begin with. I've always had a high metabolism and I'm a 23 year old guy, so I can't think of anything else causing my problems. I REALLY crave carbonated water, which I've read is a sign you need more calcium.

Why does calcium from dairy do nothing for me, yet eggshell worked in just a few hours? I'm not lactose intolerant at all. I'm German/Italian so I feel I should be built to eat dairy. I can drink a gallon of milk and eat a wheel of cheese the size of a Volkswagen and not get any digestive issues.

Can anyone weigh in here? I've read all over the place that dairy is not only a poor source of calcium, but it actually depletes calcium. But I definitely trusted Peat over all of that.

what is your vitamin D level exactly as it came on the test? muscle spasms i've heard is more likely a magnesium deficiency, what is your magnesium source in your diet? danny roddy dirnks a lot of coffee, people in my thread recommneded me to do spray on magnesium, one guy recommended epsom salt foot soak which is what i do now.

 

[Luann]

RP has said that the ratio of calcium: phosphorous is more important than the absolute amount of calcium.

If this is true some of us Peat-vegetarians can save a lot of milk money

 

[lindsay]

What is your K2 intake like? Getting adequate K2 is important for calcium assimilation - this has always been my understanding.

 

[Makrosky]

But why test everything except calcium? Also over 2 grams will start suppressing parathyroid hormone, which could otherwise be getting you extra calcium. But all these symptoms seem more like irritation or there could even be D2 in the milk.

I remember reading years ago that magnesium or calcium blood test is not very helpful since the body will always leech it from the bones if you are not ingesting it to maitain the concentration in the blood to an optimal level. Is this true?

 

[paymanz]

if you have access to good sugary fruit its better to avoid milk and just take a calcium supplement.

 

[XPlus]

You'll probably feel better getting as much milk as your appetite tells you.
Advertised or propagated quality (of the milk) doesn't guarantee compatibility.
Some organic UHT brands have valuable qualities in my experience but I don't feel really satisfied until I have some fresh milk alongside the UHT.
Zero fat milk is not palatable and is hardly digestible in my experience.
Metabolic rate, I believe, should be tied with the level of health. It's doesn't tell much about your history unless you really think you've been in good health for a long time.
I can usually average around 1.75-2 litres on most days.
I can do 3+ litres when my heart is running at 110+bpm and I'm as hot as a pressure cooker.
Processing that much liquid isn't fun even on 95bpms with good temps.

 

[Tourist]

Your eggshell calcium/magnesium ratio is now closer to the 2:1 ratio recommended by many (although perhaps not by Ray Peat).
Modifying effect of calcium/magnesium intake ratio and mortality: a population-based cohort study. - PubMed - NCBI

I realize this post is a year old--but I just found it ':) I know that Dr. Carolyn Dean recommends a 1:1 calcium/mag ratio. She's got a book with the research, "The Magnesium Miracle"

 

[Parsifal]

I remember watching a video with a lady with Crohn. She said she was interested to see that every babies get a bloated belly on milk. One day, she had too much milk so made an experiment by giving it to her husand and his belly became bloated and big. Not sure that the fibers in milk are good for everyone. I guess the casein might slow peristaltism as well for sensitive people.

 

[Travis]

Can anyone weigh in here? I've read all over the place that dairy is not only a poor source of calcium, but it actually depletes calcium.

I don't think that it does. Some people say that because it doesn't protect against osteoporosis. The United States, Canada, and The Nordic Countries have the highest osteoporosis rates despite the highest milk consumption.

But this is because of low vitamin D and high retinol levels.