Bringing To Attention The Dark Side Of Dairy

[Herbie]

At which point does he say he drinks skim milk? I only heard him say he drinks regular homogenized milk with added vitamins.[/QUOTE

No sure, I have heard him say he only drinks 1% and low fat and skim because I have listened to every interview. Adds cream to his coffee too

 

[opson123]

Alright, but you specifically said he drinks skim milk. I also asked where he said it and you said in the last interview and there wasn't a single mention about skim milk.

 

[ExCarniv]

Very high fat though

Not really, 25-30g from cheese, my total intake of fat is around 65g daily, most days I'm below that.

 

[ExCarniv]

The root cause is (imo) that at some point a lot of us on the forum are the type of people willing to drink an entire jug of milk everyday because someone said that it would make us feel super. I think that ray is brilliant and he leads by example, not because of his dietary choices, but because of his radical criticism and contrarianism. He has stated that he doesnt think people should follow him. Dont bet all your chips on one woman/man unless its yourself.

Good advice.

I just drink a cup of milk with my coffee in the mornings, I felt that drinking gallons of milk was really unnatural.

I just don't follow blindly anyone at this point, just tweaking my own diet and lifestyle, and find some Peat concepts good and other quite extremist.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Dairy has a relatively inflammatory amino acid profile, especially with the extra b vitamins required once someone is 'pufa depleted'. Without B6 and iron, tryptophan will become serotonin. Another thought is that the highly alkaline nature of milk tends to titrate the stomach acids, which can be an issue in individuals who are already compromised. Casein inhibits zinc absorbtion as well which is huge in any illness. Lactoferrin also pulls iron into the liver at a fast rate which can overburden the liver. The high amount of leucine in milk can also use up alot of zinc as it synthesizes skeletal cholesterol, which can also create a niacin deficiency, leaving the heavy drinker with a whole load of issues. The root cause of your issues isnt the milk tho. The root cause is (imo) that at some point a lot of us on the forum are the type of people willing to drink an entire jug of milk everyday because someone said that it would make us feel super. I think that ray is brilliant and he leads by example, not because of his dietary choices, but because of his radical criticism and contrarianism. He has stated that he doesnt think people should follow him. Dont bet all your chips on one woman/man unless its yourself.

Very nice and thoughtful review.

Milk is highly problematic and intake should be an exception rather than the rule
for all diseased People.It is contaminated with microorganisms,and raw is super super dangerous,
its a meme memed by farmers,who want to circumvent the sharing of Profit with the technological
milk-engineers.Just wolf it down raw bro,its living food.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Another possible issue that a lot of us may be attributing to the dairy is the consumption of excess liquids, now i don’t know everything peat eats in a day BUT, if he’s consuming roughly 2L of OJ and 2L of skim milk in my opinion if anyones doing that it could be excess liquids right? Maybe a lot of folks on here might feel crappy because were simply forcing ourselves to consume too many liquids and it may just be unnatural,

If you consume too many liquids you will jack up your prolactin and estrogen, wash out your water soluable vitamins, lower your sodium and electrolytes, and i can’t remember where but it might have been Danny or Georgi that said the excess water itself has a direct negative effect, that could tie in with what i mentioned about too much increasing prolactin and estrogen,

I see a lot of people on here consuming 4L of liquids from OJ and milk and that being about some of the only things they eat in a day and are confused as to why they feel crappy or aren’t making progress,

In my opinion its good to tone down the liquids, there’s no need to consume so much liquids there should be more solid food, in fact i was very guilty of this with severe gut issues so i was on a mostly liquid diet,

I think consuming excess liquid is not favorable for health, however if that’s the route one decides to go i think balancing the liquid with extra vitamins and a lot of sodium tends to take away the negative effects,

At least in my experience, when fresh fruits are not available or favorable, i consume fruit juice, and i usually try and throw in some cooked boiled salted mushrooms and this really gets my metabolism going when i load the salt into my food,

Just my opinion we also may need to be watching that we don’t consume excess liquids and that if we do, just remembering to balance it with other foods to negate the possible negative effects of it.

 

[boris]

@Jake sullivan agree. I felt pretty bad on so much liquid in the beginning. Always got very cold, shivering and wondering why, I thought adding sugar made a difference, but it didn't.

Until I significantly upped my salt intake. Meaning several little salty foods inbetween. For example cheese slices with extra salt. Sometimes just snacking straight salt rocks, letting them melt in mouth if I don't have time to prepare something.
No problems now. No excess peeing, not feeling cold anymore after drinking lots of milk.

 

[Xemnoraq]

@Jake sullivan agree. I felt pretty bad on so much liquid in the beginning. Always got very cold, shivering and wondering why, I thought adding sugar made a difference, but it didn't.

Until I significantly upped my salt intake. Meaning several little salty foods inbetween. For example cheese slices with extra salt. Sometimes just snacking straight salt rocks, letting them melt in mouth if I don't have time to prepare something.
No problems now. No excess peeing, not feeling cold anymore after drinking lots of milk.

Ah same man! I was doing skim milk with added white sugar i was averaging like 1000g of sugar per day still super cold and all of the hypothyroid symptoms,

And i think the conclusion to draw from all that is sugar is a metabolic stimulant forsure, however its not the only thing needed, if getting thyroid function up is the solution to increasing metabolic rate and body temps etc, thyroid is dependant on so many things, it really is dependant on good nutrition,

And naturally in the absence of certain needs the metabolic rate slows down to compensate and go for longer on less,

Similar to starvation if there’s nutrient deficiencies or a lack of resources its only natural for the body compensate by dropping the metabolism,

And so with that being said i think like you mentioned it takes alot more than just sugar and milk to get the metabolism going and i think a lot of people may or may not be making that mistake, thyroid works good when everything else is good and when stress is low,

And you can’t get thyroid up with a stressful or restrictive diet so it’s important to remember to include those salty foods to balance it out, etc.

I also think if a lot of people are using added sugar or sweetner it’s important to consider using vitamin B1, because glucose oxidation just like thyroid is dependant on many factors to work optimally, one of them i know is B1 gets used up from glucose, i have found personally just adding extra B1 to routine tends to really turn up the furnace for my metabolism,
Just my opinion and thoughts

 

[ExCarniv]

4-5 L of liquid foods is unnatural for humans.

I don't care what Peat says about it, is just feels unnatural and most people will have troubles.

A cup of orange juice in the morning? Ok. A cup of milk with your coffee? Ok.

Making them the main staples of your diet, not good and there is no healthy people drinking 3L orange juice and 3L of milk per day.

 

[ExCarniv]

Ah same man! I was doing skim milk with added white sugar i was averaging like 1000g of sugar per day still super cold and all of the hypothyroid symptoms,

And i think the conclusion to draw from all that is sugar is a metabolic stimulant forsure, however its not the only thing needed, if getting thyroid function up is the solution to increasing metabolic rate and body temps etc, thyroid is dependant on so many things, it really is dependant on good nutrition,

And naturally in the absence of certain needs the metabolic rate slows down to compensate and go for longer on less,

Similar to starvation if there’s nutrient deficiencies or a lack of resources its only natural for the body compensate by dropping the metabolism,

And so with that being said i think like you mentioned it takes alot more than just sugar and milk to get the metabolism going and i think a lot of people may or may not be making that mistake, thyroid works good when everything else is good and when stress is low,

And you can’t get thyroid up with a stressful or restrictive diet so it’s important to remember to include those salty foods to balance it out, etc.

I also think if a lot of people are using added sugar or sweetner it’s important to consider using vitamin B1, because glucose oxidation just like thyroid is dependant on many factors to work optimally, one of them i know is B1 gets used up from glucose, i have found personally just adding extra B1 to routine tends to really turn up the furnace for my metabolism,
Just my opinion and thoughts

B Complex and Magnesium are key for me.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

4-5 L of liquid foods is unnatural for humans.

I don't care what Peat says about it, is just feels unnatural and most people will have troubles.

A cup of orange juice in the morning? Ok. A cup of milk with your coffee? Ok.

Making them the main staples of your diet, not good and there is no healthy people drinking 3L orange juice and 3L of milk per day.

..
Contact-Time within the small duodenum is severely reduced by consuming liquid.
A lot of people on the spinning milk-carousel are starving endogenously because uptake just isnt there.
I believe i read no more than 20g of Protein can be absorbed in one sitting,
but all the problems that comes with it really..

 

[Cloudhands]

Dairy, casein in particular are similiar to opioid drugs. When i take any opiate (Vicodin, codeine, even tried opium a few times) i get very itchy, i i get angry, and i get constipated. So many of the different components of milk do the same thing to the body as eachother, especially in conjunction. Its time to stop looking at the micronutrients and molecules that are in milk and just start paying attention to how you feel. Physiology is FAR too nuanced to create a balanced system based on what a substance is composed of, just pay attention to how you function with different foods and supplements while keeping the basics in mind as far as micro and macronutrients. Or dont idc im im just projecting my own personal reflections. But for example: drinking a gallon of OJ for the naringenin and apigenin. Dont u think the myopic view of focusing on all the little molecules and micronutrients it has to offer will provide diminishing returns as you suffer thru a jug of something that makes u feel like ***t? I know it works for some people but this is just an example. And then when the oj oj and milk make u feel like ***t, instead of finding more practical options some of us decide to try and add in other foods anf supplements to find balance with this rediculous foundation of a diet. If it works for you thats fantastic, but for many people especially on this forum it seems to be a house of cards

 

[Jennifer]

For me, the main issue with dairy is the bacteria. Ray has mentioned, in regards to fibers being unnecessary, how dairy creates bulk by supporting abundant bacterial growth. Between that and its constipating nature (for me), the bacteria have a field day in my intestines which, along with blatant signs, was confirmed by overpriced comprehensive stool tests prior to and after adding dairy back into my diet. Raw milk and cultured dairy products caused the worst of my allergy symptoms like rashing, throat swelling and gastritis, while ultra-pasteurized milk caused the least, and most of my issues with dairy went away while I was taking high doses of minocycline, but returned every time I tried to go off the mino.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

For me, the main issue with dairy is the bacteria. Ray has mentioned, in regards to fibers being unnecessary, how dairy creates bulk by supporting abundant bacterial growth. Between that and its constipating nature (for me), the bacteria have a field day in my intestines which, along with blatant signs, was confirmed by overpriced comprehensive stool tests prior to and after adding dairy back into my diet. Raw milk and cultured dairy products caused the worst of my allergy symptoms like rashing, throat swelling and gastritis, while ultra-pasteurized milk caused the least, and most of my issues with dairy went away while I was taking high doses of minocycline, but returned every time I tried to go off the mino.

Hey Jennifer, have you ever tried the raw milk of other animals as well, such as goats, sheep, camel? Sorry if you mentioned this in another thread already.

 

[Nemo]

Alright, but you specifically said he drinks skim milk. I also asked where he said it and you said in the last interview and there wasn't a single mention about skim milk.

I've heard Dr. Peat say he drinks skim milk. I've also heard him say he drinks 2% and 1%. The more I read him and listen to his interviews, the more I see he changes a number of things based on how he's feeling.

For example, I've heard him say he takes thyroid hormone everyday. And I've heard him say he takes thyroid hormone only in winter.

He likely changes fat content of milk based on his weight, whether or not he's eating butter and cheese, etc.

Suggests it's a good idea to pay attention to how you're actually feeling and make adjustments accordingly.

 

[Nemo]

And then when the oj oj and milk make u feel like ***t, instead of finding more practical options some of us decide to try and add in other foods anf supplements to find balance with this rediculous foundation of a diet. If it works for you thats fantastic, but for many people especially on this forum it seems to be a house of cards

I remember when I first found Peat's website, I immediately tried to switch from the very low carb diet I'd been on to all milk and OJ.

It made me terribly sick. Even worse than how I was already feeling. I couldn't get through two days.

So I went back to what I'd been doing (except no PUFAs) but just added OJ and fruit and a little milk or cheese each day. I just kept shifting little by little and kept feeling better and better.

Same for supplements. I tried to leap in with big doses of thiamine and niacinamide and felt terrible. So I cut back to a very small dose and added gradually. And I just keep feeling better and better.

 

[opson123]

I've heard Dr. Peat say he drinks skim milk. I've also heard him say he drinks 2% and 1%. The more I read him and listen to his interviews, the more I see he changes a number of things based on how he's feeling.

For example, I've heard him say he takes thyroid hormone everyday. And I've heard him say he takes thyroid hormone only in winter.

He likely changes fat content of milk based on his weight, whether or not he's eating butter and cheese, etc.

Suggests it's a good idea to pay attention to how you're actually feeling and make adjustments accordingly.

Yeah, I've also heard him switch around what he eats. Herbie also said he's heard him say different things. I was just curious why Herbie said Peat drinks skim milk based on an interview where skim milk isn't even mentioned. He probably just misread or misunderstood my question. :)

 

[CLASH]

and i notice this EVERYTIME i go really hard on dairy and load up on lots of it,
so i get extremely sick like someone with crohn's would horrible fatigue bad skin hair loss etc, then every time i cut out dairy things seem to improve real fast,

I have discussed the issues with milk and dairy on this forum almost ad nauseum.

The main issues are the opiate effect from the beta casomorphin peptide and the hormone content.

The beta casomorphin can give you every symptom you listed as it is an opiate. It can cause brain fog, severely slowed digestive transit, hairloss, loss of libido, loss of motivation, in conjunction with the hormones dairy is known to cause acne, it can cause bloating, water weight gain. These are all known side effects of opiates, elevated prolactin and estrogen. Dairy fat is high in estrone, and estradiol. Its also has 5ar reduced androgen metabolites that are known to induce acne, previous member Travis has covered this acne aspect.

It doesnt matter if organic, raw, or whatver other iteration or not, the only difference you may see is by switching to A2 varieties of milk that lack the beta casomorphin, such as goat milk. Even so there is still an opiate effect, it just isnt as potent. I experimented with all types of milk for a year. The worst health I ever had was on a high cows milk diet or a high starch diet.

 

[boris]

Low Estrogen Content in Milk – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Lower fat milk also has lower estrogen. Even whole milk has an extremely low estrogen content. Apart from that estrogen from milk is not really an issue since milk also contains progesterone.

An Interview With Dr. Raymond Peat: A Renowned Nutritional Counselor Offers His Thoughts About Thyroid Disease / Thyroid Disease Information Source - Articles/FAQs

Dr. Ray Peat: Milk contains a small amount of thyroid and progesterone

Nevertheless, milk obviously isn't for everybody. Especially not when one jumps in from 0 to 100. And on top of that lots of people seem to underestimate the sodium requirements of a high liquid diet.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

For me, the main issue with dairy is the bacteria. Ray has mentioned, in regards to fibers being unnecessary, how dairy creates bulk by supporting abundant bacterial growth. Between that and its constipating nature (for me), the bacteria have a field day in my intestines which, along with blatant signs, was confirmed by overpriced comprehensive stool tests prior to and after adding dairy back into my diet. Raw milk and cultured dairy products caused the worst of my allergy symptoms like rashing, throat swelling and gastritis, while ultra-pasteurized milk caused the least, and most of my issues with dairy went away while I was taking high doses of minocycline, but returned every time I tried to go off the mino.

so he is aware..
A lot of the healthy 3 times a day stools are coming from overgrowth of bacteria.