Fixing Milk

[sunflower1]

yep tried goat milk, same thing ..
I get a racing heart and can't sleep at night and feel anxious .
I did manage to take some biotin today and that seemed ok.. Hoorah !
I showed as having high d lactate in a gut test I had done
right now , I eat usually some kind of lunch meat or sausage in the am with fruit , same again 3 hours later, then I can do for example steak and mashed potato and fruit, or fish and potatoes and fruit . Starch seems to help keep my blood sugar stable longer ..

 

[sunflower1]

not the best options for breakfast, but it's usually a matter of what i can get down me , my appetite is so low in the mornings

 

[Ella]

I have no problems with lactose as far as I can tell.

Lack of protein degradng enzymes + hyperpermeability of the gut lining + insufficient mucousal barrier and any food with protein is going to be a problem. It is not the milk, it is the digestion that needs to be fixed. Yes, having yoghurt or cheese will help. The proteins are broken down by the fermentation process but will not fix the problem of poor digestion.

Hypothyroidism is a big contributor as you need to maintain a specific body temperature for enzymes to even work. Remember, they are temperature and pH specific.

In TCM, for milk issues, there is usually too much "dampness" already in the upper digestive tract

So true, thus adding spices to milk (Ayuvedic medicine as TCM have known this for thousands of years) generates heat in the gut, thus upregulating digestive enzymes which improves the digestiblity of the milk and other proteins. The manner that food is prepared and paired matters. Making food safe, digestibile and aiding in the absorption of nutrients is not only a science but an art too. Most people miss this fact.

If you are looking for increased protein bioavailability; potato juice is far superior. Peat says it is 110% bioavailable. Potatoes are a cheap source of protein compared to milk. Unfortunately, potatoes can be easily wiped out by a bad season. Lost mine to bad frost this season Nothing beats milk though, as you can make lots of yummy foods (desserts); delicious and a simple way to bump up nutrition.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

@Ella

I have no digestion problems with most anything I eat whatsoever, but the points you mention could still be the cause of my reaction to milk. My reaction to milk seems inflammatory, and seems to be caused by histamine. I seem to be high in histamine based on symptoms and other symptoms of family members. Maybe I have extremely reactive mast cells.

But yes you are right, even though I feel no acute stomach problems, I very well may have a digestion issue. I try and take vinegar with protein heavy meals so as to reduce pH, but vinegar may be insufficient for that purpose.

Though I think my body temperature is sufficient for digestion (I am around normal), I definitely agree that temperature is important, and drinking cold milk is probably very bad for digestion. Eating/drinking anything cold during a meal woud add some stress to digestion. I have no idea what my thyroid levels are. I don't seem to have a lot of symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Very interesting about using hot herbs to improve digestion. Do you have any recommendations? I feel if I tried to go look this up myself, the only information I would find would be on some random new age uninformed website. I feel as though you have probably read deeper then that.

110% bioavailable? How is that possible hahaha.

The purpose of using milk is that it is extremely nutrient rich, no fiber, delicious, and cheap. Potatoes are good, but I want to explore if it's possible to make milk better.

Thanks.

 

[sunflower1]

@Ella
My house mate is an ayurvedic practitioner. I'm going to ask her to make me up a digestive blend.. I'd love to be able to drink milk ..
On the potato juice front. am I just throwing this thru a regular juicer ?

 

[Ella]

@Ella

I have no digestion problems with most anything I eat whatsoever, but the points you mention could still be the cause of my reaction to milk. My reaction to milk seems inflammatory, and seems to be caused by histamine. I seem to be high in histamine based on symptoms and other symptoms of family members. Maybe I have extremely reactive mast cells.
High histamine is the clue that all is not right in the gut. Histamine is triggered when gut lining is irritated and there are many foods that are high in histamine. I assume you have done your research in DAO - diamine oxidase enzyme. This enzyme degrades histamine, thus if you have a non-functioning DAO, histamine will build and cause all manner of unpleasant reactions. So do we remove all these foods from the diet? Once we remove gluten, dairy, FODMAPS, carbs, sugars, fructose what are we left with. I have people come to me with all these lists of the foods they can't eat and I think WTF. Specific carbs overlaid on FODMAPS, overlaid on high histamine foods, overlaid on high fructose, overlaid on high carbs. When and how did food become our enemy? We are still trying to unravel this one and will for many years to come.

You can now supplement this enzyme (very expensive) however, if gut conditions are not optimal (temp & pH) the enzyme won't work. The enzyme is only functional at a specific range of pH.

DAO activity test: DAO (633.5 units/L) degraded histamine dihydrochloride (0.050 g/L) to an undetectable level (< 0.1 ppm) in 0.5 M phosphate buffer (pH 7.0) when incubated at 37°C with agitation at 100 rpm for 5 h. The DAO degraded 100% (0.05 g/L) of the histamine within 1 h of incubation. Selection of DAO concentration: DAO at 2534 units/L degraded 500 ppm of histamine in 0.5 M phosphate buffer (pH 6) containing 1% salt to an undetectable level (< 0.1 ppm) when incubated for 10 h at 37°C and agitating at 100 rpm.

I recall from memory (which may be bit off) the optimal range is around 6.4 to just over 7, the range may be as high as 7.4. Need to check.

If food is coming from acidic medium in the stomach where protein digestion takes place, this acidic chyme needs to be neutralised with bile and alkaline juices from the the gallbladder and pancreas. If you are low in these alkaline minerals you will not be able to reach the pH required to get DAO working. Temperature needs to be 37 C so heat is important. You will not be able to break down histamine which will rapidly build to high levels.

But yes you are right, even though I feel no acute stomach problems, I very well may have a digestion issue. I try and take vinegar with protein heavy meals so as to reduce pH, but vinegar may be insufficient for that purpose.

Perhaps increasing acid in the stomach is not the problem but raising pH in small intestines is.

Though I think my body temperature is sufficient for digestion (I am around normal), I definitely agree that temperature is important, and drinking cold milk is probably very bad for digestion. Eating/drinking anything cold during a meal woud add some stress to digestion. I have no idea what my thyroid levels are. I don't seem to have a lot of symptoms of hypothyroidism.

If you are not hypothyroid then you would be the exception these days. Testing is not so straight forward, Are you tracking pulse and temps?

Very interesting about using hot herbs to improve digestion. Do you have any recommendations? I feel if I tried to go look this up myself, the only information I would find would be on some random new age uninformed website. I feel as though you have probably read deeper then that.

There is more to DAO optimisation. DAO is a copper dependant enzyme so it needs copper in its catalytic site, not zinc, not iron, lead, cadmium etc. You also need B6 on board.

Ginger is not "Peaty" but works nicely in creating heat.All those spices that are traditionally used with milk like cinnamon, cardamon. How did they know that these spices were a perfect match. Black pepper + turmeric is also good. Peat says he no longer uses pepper because most is infected with mold. This is a huge concern of mine too but I still use black peppercorns that I grind fresh each time. There are many seed spices that are used in indian cooking that would would not be peat preferred, however I like to use them for their beneficial properties. Milk with grated nutmeg or eggnog with nutmeg. Chai latte also nice relaxing to drink. I am not sure about turmeric latte. I had bad experience with tumeric - crashed my blood sugar but in stirfries, I have no issues along with curry and other spices.

110% bioavailable? How is that possible hahaha.

True, you need to look up the KMUD transcripts to find it, which is why I am devastated losing this season's potatoes. I was hoping to tackle a little more weight loss for summer. I will have to plant again, now that the frost is over and hopefully there will be lots of rain coming.

The purpose of using milk is that it is extremely nutrient rich, no fiber, delicious, and cheap. Potatoes are good, but I want to explore if it's possible to make milk better.

Thanks.

The problem with milk is that it is too cheap and the farmer is not paid enough for his work and investment in providing you with a nutrient rich versatile food. Can't wait for summer so I can enjoy icecream everyday.

I'd love to be able to drink milk ..
On the potato juice front. am I just throwing this thru a regular juicer ?

Then removing the starch? I love the potato juice, especially with my own potatoes. Nothing like fresh potatoes. I like to steep it with some fresh rosemary and salt.
Certainly beats coffee which I don't tolerate and tea which depletes my iodine. Potato juice is excellent for me.

 

[tara]

I'd love to find a way to make milk more usable for me. I love milk.
I used to be able to drink lots of milk. Thank goodness - it was a major source of nutrition when I was a child.
I don't get any noticable gut distress, so I'm guessing it's not the lactose, but could be I'm not digesting the proteins optimally.
I get a fuzzy sick feeling head if I drink too much of it.
Same with goat milk.
Same with A2 milk.
Same with low fat, regular fat, homogenised, unhomogenised, pasteurised, UHT ...
Fermenting/yogurt/cheese is not better for me - though that could be lactic acid or histamine or something else, too.

I have not tried any systematic experiment with digestive enzymes.

If you find a way to solve it, I'll be interested.

 

[michael94]

The problem with milk is that it is too cheap and the farmer is not paid enough for his work and investment in providing you with a nutrient rich versatile food. Can't wait for summer so I can enjoy icecream everyday.



Then removing the starch? I love the potato juice, especially with my own potatoes. Nothing like fresh potatoes. I like to steep it with some fresh rosemary and salt.
Certainly beats coffee which I don't tolerate and tea which depletes my iodine. Potato juice is excellent for me.

if anyone doesn't have a juicer or doesn't want to use it then chewing on bits and spitting out the pulp works also. I agree it goes well with something salty.

 

[YourUniverse]

So I fixed not being able to drink milk by adding vinegar to each cup + letting the milk warm up in my mouth before swallowing, as Nathan hatch said.

Before this, I thought I had some kind of allergy/intolerance/allergic reaction to an additive. I would get stomach pains, lethargy, weight gain, and leukoplakia after trying to drink milk alone. I tried different milk brands, different fat %s, tried organic, tried using lactase pills beforehand... Nothing fixed my symptoms. Vinegar (and warmth) did

 

[Waynish]

So I fixed not being able to drink milk by adding vinegar to each cup + letting the milk warm up in my mouth before swallowing, as Nathan hatch said.

Before this, I thought I had some kind of allergy/intolerance/allergic reaction to an additive. I would get stomach pains, lethargy, weight gain, and leukoplakia after trying to drink milk alone. I tried different milk brands, different fat %s, tried organic, tried using lactase pills beforehand... Nothing fixed my symptoms. Vinegar (and warmth) did

More supporting evidence for TCM methods :)

 

[YourUniverse]

More supporting evidence for TCM methods :)

Ha, ya! Do you know if, according to TCM, it would be safe to use milk without vinegar in coffee to make a latte? Said differently, does coffee aid milk digestion (or have beneficial action on bacteria)? Sour milk does NOT a latte make, for anyone wondering

 

[Waynish]

They would do it a different way. It is more complicated - gotta get diagnosed, but likely some herbs remedying whatever is preventing your system from producing more digestive power will be used.

 

[Waynish]

Ha, ya! Do you know if, according to TCM, it would be safe to use milk without vinegar in coffee to make a latte? Said differently, does coffee aid milk digestion (or have beneficial action on bacteria)? Sour milk does NOT a latte make, for anyone wondering

But generally yes, TCM would recommend against drinking anything cold regularly.

 

[YourUniverse]

But generally yes, TCM would recommend against drinking anything cold regularly.

Thanks!

 

[Waynish]

One place TCM and ray peat differ is their use of simple carbs. TCM describes them depleting digestive power - what so many on this forum seem to be lacking. B-vitamins may be a solution for some of that depletion, but I don't see b-vitamins as the solution for drinking cold things all of the time.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Ha, ya! Do you know if, according to TCM, it would be safe to use milk without vinegar in coffee to make a latte? Said differently, does coffee aid milk digestion (or have beneficial action on bacteria)? Sour milk does NOT a latte make, for anyone wondering

YES! Especially strong coffee, can really help stimulate your gall bladder and get digestion going. I almost never have milk by itself; always a latte with lots of sugar and even a pinch of salt; or as a hot chocolate, or sometimes as an iced latte even.

Coffee is acidic like vinegar; so in this regard most acidic things would help but coffee also has b vitamins and magnesium and is specifically known to stimulate the bowels and hasten digestion.

How much vinegar do you use per cup of milk? Coffee definitely makes a better latte than vinegar does. :)

 

[mmartian]

Any update on vinegar addition to milk to aid digestion of the milk proteins? How much vinegar is added to each cup?