Zinc, Copper, Selenium: Shellfish Vs Cocoa

[charlie]

Thats a lot of milk!

 

[kettlebell]

I love milk haha

 

[charlie]

Hat tip Sabine over at RP fans:

"Dear Dr Peat, is the phytic acid and oxalic acid in cocoa of concern? Is there a difference between alkalized cocoa and natural cocoa?"

His response:"The alkaline treatment makes it mix easily with milk. I don't think the amounts of phytic and oxalic acid are harmful."

 

[Beebop]

Hi, still very new to the forum. Not usually a pedant, but I noticed this mistake about Selenium content:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5471/2

Cocoa per 86gm serving

Minerals
Amounts Per Selected Serving%DV
Calcium 110mg
Iron 11.9mg
Magnesium 429mg
Phosphorus 631mg
Potassium 1311mg
Sodium 18.1mg
Zinc 5.9mg
Copper 3.3mg
Manganese 3.3mg
Selenium 12.3mcg

Oysters per 86gm serving

Minerals
Amounts Per Selected Serving
Calcium 39mg
Iron 16.5mg
Magnesium 40.5mg
Phosphorus 116mg
Potassium 134mg
Sodium 181mg
Zinc 78mg
Copper 3.8mg
Manganese 0.3mg
Selenium 54.8mcg

I took the serving size of oysters on the nutrition facts and analysis website ( http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fin ... cts/4189/2 ) and broke down the nutritional content so as to compare it with cocoa gram for gram.

Above is an 86gm serving of oysters compared to an 86gm serving of cocoa (100%)

Cocoa has:

Less Zinc (By far) BUT high cocoa chocolate can be eaten daily which would make up the difference
Similar copper content
Higher selenium content

In fact based on these figures Oysters have a much higher selenium content than Cocoa, sadly.

Personally I would love chocolate to be 'the thing' to give me these minerals. I tried fresh cockles for the first time this week - no likey. Can't imagine liking oysters or mussles!

I wonder if it would be possible to improve the availability of the minerals in chocolate. Fermenting, sprouting and heat treatment removes phytic acid from grains. Sprouted choc?

 

[pboy]

If you really don't want to eat shellfish, 1 Brazilnut a day provides 120% daily value selenium, but also some PUFA

With dark cocoa, they way the nuts are processed if would be extremely hard to find whole beans that haven't been fermented and would
still be sproutable when you bought them. I'm pretty sure in the fermentation process itself a lot of the phytic acid's are released from the cacao, as
well as more when it's roasted. Defiinatly some remain though, especially if you buy raw cacao (still fermented but not roasted yet, more bitter also more
stimulating)

 

[Jenn]

I think you should honor your cravings and pay attention to if your body doesn't like it. Don't eat oysters if you don't like them. Why put yourself through the stress? Stress is BAD. If you don't like chocolate, don't eat it. I prefer 60-70% myself. I love fresh oysters cooked on the beach with lots of butter. Canned oysters are kind of nasty in comparison, but I do eat them on occasion.

BTW-Homemade Chocolate/Mocha syrup with a little gelatin for good measure:
http://losingcreekfarm.blogspot.com/201 ... syrup.html

 

[Peata]

I just got into oysters in the last week. I find the canned ones disgusting except prepared by frying. It's not the Peatiest thing, but it works for me. I soak them in milk. Dredge in flour. Fry til real crispy & brown in coconut oil. Salt them. Eat with a dipping sauce or ketchup.

I cooked oysters in the shell today, and they were good too.

All this zinc in the last 5 days is doing me a world of good. I supplemented too, because I didn't have more oysters and didn't want to burn myself out on them. I figure I need to get my zinc levels up this time in my cycle and maybe I won't have to supplement (or do it as much) after a while.

I really don't eat much chocolate anymore. No cravings or anything.

 

[jyb]

I was looking into ways of increasing my copper intake, since I noticed a small amount of side hair becoming grey (it's not uniform, just one hair here and there) and otherwise my hair is not falling at all, so it must be due to copper deficiency.

I tried cocoa powder (pure source) in generous amounts (with milk and sugar) but didn't like it - some kind of hard heart beat, and it happened that I slept badly on both days I tried it despite otherwise good sleep on other days.

I assume copper can't be supplemented safely, apparently because its not absorbed the same way at all compared to when its from food.

Liver and oysters are high in copper, but can only do that on a weekly basis. And I'd only do a small amount of liver at a time, so its really oysters. On a daily basis, maybe shrimp could do but I wonder if its enough to replete my stores - it seems barely enough to keep up with daily recommended intake.

 

[loess]

Chaga mushroom may be a possibility. I know mushrooms are not particularly special viewed through the Peat lens, but chaga mushrooms are a little different in that they are not actually a mushroom fruitbody like the culinary mushrooms (portabella, button mushrooms, etc). Chaga are harvested from birch trees and they are actually an intermediate sclerotial stage, a hardened mycelial mass of dikaryotic tissue (fertilized, but before it has produced spores). Kind of like an above ground truffle.

It is usually consumed by grinding/grating into a powder and making a tea. It has a bit of a dark chocolatey flavor and is terrific with milk and sugar.

Chaga’s Nutrients:

Data from research conducted at facilities all over the world indicates that chaga contains a full assortment of nutrients including:

- Antioxidants: Chaga is second only to cacao in antioxidants of any whole food or herb in the world (excluding powders)
- Polysaccharides (beta glucans, protein-bound xylogalactoglucans, etc.)
- Superoxide dismutase
- Melanin: Chaga is the best source of this nutrient found in Nature.
- Triterpenes
- Betulin, betulinic acid, and lupeol
- Trace Minerals: Contains antimony, barium, bismuth, boron, chromium, copper, germanium, manganese, selenium, and zinc
- Major Minerals: Contains calcium, cesium (highly alkaline), iron, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium, rubidium (highly alkaline), silicon, and sulfur
- Vitamins B2, D2

Tree mushroom allergies are rare and chaga is generally considered hypo-allergenic.

 

[north]

We only have fresh oysters here, and i actually started liking them raw! But then 1 week ago i got foodpoisoning from raw oysters and got fever and stuff the morning after I ate them. It passed during the day but man im scared to eat them raw now even tho thats the way i like them best.

Anybody know the best way to cook them in a Peat way? Fry with butter? Does that break/remove any of the nutrients?

 

[jyb]

We only have fresh oysters here, and i actually started liking them raw! But then 1 week ago i got foodpoisoning from raw oysters and got fever and stuff the morning after I ate them. It passed during the day but man im scared to eat them raw now even tho thats the way i like them best.

Anybody know the best way to cook them in a Peat way? Fry with butter? Does that break/remove any of the nutrients?

I have eaten quite a lot of raw oysters for over a year and never had poisoning. However I tend to discard dead oysters or those that have lost their water. I also rinse the oysters as I unshell them.

 

[charlie]

Anybody know the best way to cook them in a Peat way? Fry with butter? Does that break/remove any of the nutrients?

When I have oysters in the shell I will bake them till they pop open, then shuck them. Then I dip it in melted butter with little bit of lemon. Yum!

For any other kind of oysters I make a stew based off the recipe that 4peatssake posted below. It is incredibly delicious.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1968

 

[HDD]

I eat them steamed - medium rare.

 

[Adnada]

Another way to prepare oysters is to make a New England Clam Chowder and sub oysters for the clams. If diced up, mixed in the chowder, and lightly cooked, the consistency of the oysters is improved, and adding bacon may help those who don't like the flavor.

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/new-englan ... chowder-i/

 

[wildtruffle14]

i think chocolate is just another tool in the bag, like oysters. Though oysters seem less problematic. I very much agree that chocolate and meat are very similar in their ability to bring down sugar levels. when i was without oysters for a few weeks, I craved and devoured a lot of hot cocoa with gelatin. now that i have oysters, i crave chocolate less. much less.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Chocolate is good but impossible to eat without indigestion and serotonin... Think what you may about aflatoxin's dangers, but cocoa is up there with coffee regarding its presence. I saw how they make cocoa beans. Final process after aging is EYEBALLING the ones who are entirely f**kin moldy and throwing them out.

If you have a large wallet you can try bulletproof cocoa powder. I tried the coffee and health did improve a little! Absolutely impossible to upset the stomach with any amount of it.

 

[j.]

Chocolate is good but impossible to eat without indigestion and serotonin

I use chocolate powder with milk, sugar, and coffee. I think both milk and coffee block some of the undesirable properties of chocolate. Taken this way, I can consume a lot and seem to benefit from it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Chocolate is good but impossible to eat without indigestion and serotonin

I use chocolate powder with milk, sugar, and coffee. I think both milk and coffee block some of the undesirable properties of chocolate. Taken this way, I can consume a lot and seem to benefit from it.

The milk is supposed to bind the polyphenols, yes. I think I might pull the trigger on some zinc gluconate, and use chocolate for selenium and copper... Oysters, to tell the truth, give me headaches and cool me down. I bet cadmium content is off the chart even from the French sources.

 

[sladerunner69]

Hi everyone,

I am not a fan of oysters. The taste and texture repulses me. I do eat prawns once every couple of weeks but that is about it. What I do eat a lot of is cocoa (90% cocoa chocolate to be precise). I always have it with coffee to stop the iron absorption.

That is how I get my zinc, copper and selenium and I was interested to notice that gram for gram those nutrients are in higher quantities in cocoa than in shellfish.

I wanted to mention it just in case there is a flaw I am missing.

I am taking about 100gm chocolate a day (90% high quality cocoa) which gives great amounts of the above nutrient + the saturated fat the chocolate contains.

Try eating a can of boiled oysters a day...whole different ballgame. The only way I get those down are swallowing each one like a horse pill, followed by copious amounts of coffee to mask the scent/taste. I do this because smoking depletes zinc/copper stores FAST

 

[sladerunner69]

Chocolate is good but impossible to eat without indigestion and serotonin... Think what you may about aflatoxin's dangers, but cocoa is up there with coffee regarding its presence. I saw how they make cocoa beans. Final process after aging is EYEBALLING the ones who are entirely f**kin moldy and throwing them out.

If you have a large wallet you can try bulletproof cocoa powder. I tried the coffee and health did improve a little! Absolutely impossible to upset the stomach with any amount of it.

The myto/alfatoxin problem with coffee is a bit bunk. This can be problem with old green coffee beans especially from tropical climates. Refrigeration makes it worse-you're not supposed to keep coffee in the fridge anyways. Most of these bacterium are destroyed during roasting, and barely any make it through the drip process. Many people here drink coffee throughout the day with no digestive problems. Those that don't are usually sensitive to acidity, which baking soda can help. Ray Peat himself would have 40-50 cups a day without any problems.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7451391