Zinc - My Miracle For Acne & Estrogen Dominance

Peata

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Well, I think that since it's been over a week of success, I can say that zinc is one of the best things on earth.

Nothing has ever worked this well for my skin with no side effects. My skin hasn't been this clear in over three years. And even back when it was clear, it didn't look this good overall. The tone and texture are nicer. The oil is normal instead of the thick, tenacious oil that I had almost all the time for the last few years. No more cysts. I'm still getting a few small pimples here and there, but they are easily managed. The last old cyst that was sitting on my upper neck is just a dry bump that's almost gone. Even the acne on my chest has become very small bumps instead of the larger red spots.

I took my first 50 mg. of zinc last week, and almost immediately, I felt the calming effect on my skin. Acne lesions that had been there for over a week dried up and started going away within an hour or two of that first pill. Zinc completely calms inflammation. Redness reduced, pain from inflamed skin gone. Cysts that were trying to come up from deep underground were stopped with zinc.

Zinc has taken care of my fibrocystic breasts. That constant ache that made me reach for aspirin several times per day is gone.

My dosage has varied each day.

So here's the breakdown of zinc each day since last Wed. and this includes supps and foods such as oysters:
Wed - 110 mg.
Thurs - 60 mg.
Fri - 60 mg.
Sat - 40 mg.
Sun - 60 mg.
Mon - 110 mg.
Tues - 200 mg.
Wed - 70 mg.

How did I know how much to take? That's the beauty of it. I just literally use my skin as the guide. If I felt a painful spot, a bump, whatever, I took about 25 mg. Some days were less eventful skin-wise than others. For example, I was having to take zinc every 3 - 4 hours yesterday to keep oil and bumps down. I took about 200 mg. total and that included food. But today my body seems to have compensated by my skin being under much better control, and I've only needed around 70 mg (that included foods).

I felt this was an instinctual way to go about it, rather than keep taking super high doses just because, or to take doses too small and then it wouldn't be enough to do the job. My body has rewarded me with no side effects, just results.

I also felt like perhaps over time I wouldn't need such high doses or might be able to get what I needed from food.

Not everyone needs zinc the way I do, so that's not the reason for my post. I just have to share this. There may be someone who needs to read it and then they can research and come to their own conclusions. I really think it's an individual thing, and I just happened to hit on my missing nutrient and doses based on research I did here on the forum and around the net, as well as my own instinct.

I remember last week when I first took a 50 mg. pill, I had a little upset tummy but I realized later that was because I took it on an empty stomach. Since then I've had no trouble at all with taking it on an empty stomach, though I do try to remember to take it with food or drink just in case.

A couple hours after that first zinc pill, I cooked up some oysters. Within an hour or two of eating those, I had this really good mood and my vision seemed enhanced. I don't know if that really happened from the zinc or that was some other thing going on, who knows. I might have been having a blood sugar thing. Or it might have been the effect of the big doses of zinc washing through me.

At any rate, I am happy.

Believe it or not, I have even more to say on zinc later. As well as some words from the man himself.
 

Peata

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Ironically, I tried zinc about 15 years ago when I came off my veganism and the Pill and had the worst acne ever. I was desperate for a natural cure but also desperate for any cure so I was seeing a derm. Somewhere on the net I read about zinc and acne, and started taking it. I remember having some positive results, though I was taking a regular dose (can't remember how many mg. now but I'm sure it was just a pill per day, maybe not even 50 mg).

I'd been taking the zinc almost a month with pretty good results. At least better than anything else I'd tried. The next time I went to the derm, I told him I was taking zinc and that it seemed to be helping. He just gave me an incredulous look and said, "It's never been proven to help acne." And that was that.

That kind of set me back mentally, though I kept taking the zinc for a while. But then my acne did get worse again and I just gave up on zinc. I'm sure I thought it just another useless waste of time and money, and that it had worked at first but then stopped working. But now I think that the improvement I saw back then was because it was helping. I just wasn't taking enough to completely remove my acne and I wasn't altering my dose according to need like I am now. So the flare up in the end was probably a hormonal shift that would have required more zinc.

So I wanted to add that to the thread. Zinc has a history of helping me, though my state of mind and diet were not the best back then (metabolism was wrecked from Pill, veganism, anxiety, depression, no sun, etc.) and I gave up on zinc unlike now.
 

Peata

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I was reading last week in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1491&hilit=zinc+acne

And Edward said some things that caught my eye.

If you are eating liver and your acne still reoccurs it is because you are not getting enough zinc. If you take a large dose of Vitamin A and acne temporary goes away it is because of the thyroid suppressing aspect of the large dose. If your zinc intake is insufficient you cannot metabolize Vitamin A efficiently. If zinc is sufficient your requirement for Vitamin A will decrease. Vitamin A metabolism is dependent on zinc status.
....

One can go in and out of this honeymoon period for a long time is one is not eating enough. Feeling warm, feeling cold, up and down. The up and down usually is a sign your doing something right, and means you just need to give it time and eat enough of the appropriate foods.

Saying that pulse and temperature is normal with large doses of Vitmain A is a legitimate consideration. However, it is a rather pharmacological mentality as it is symptom treatment, much like drinking 50 cups of coffee, feeding rats the polyunsaturates, etc. If you have to micro manage what you eat, something is wrong. And again, that is not to say that micro managing is not justified in the beginning, but that is to say if your constantly struggling to control health taking more and more of substance is not going to get you very far, as I said, if you are constantly having to take large doses of Vitamin A, then it is likely you need more Zinc and possibility more of the B vitamins.

Outside of that what I've observed in most people, is that it is simply a matter of eating more carbohydrate, nutrient density is important however nutrients are useless if the body can't use them, much like a car with a fresh oil change and fresh fluids, that's good, but you won't get anywhere without a tank of gas.

....

Most of the supplemental Zinc dosages throughout different studies were fairly low compared to what one might get in a single oyster, yet there is improvement in acne. I think there was a few where Zinc alone out performed Vitamin A and Zinc combined.
....

I do think that living in a sunny climate does require more Vitamin A—but in my opinion—not much more than you would get if you were eating eating 2-4 ounces of liver daily. However, what is also important to consider is that people living in sunny climates traditionally ate a lot critters of that were rich in Zinc—daily.

....
He lists anecdotal accounts:

One woman I advised had severe cystic acne, she felt that if she only consumed enough liver that there would be improvement, and there was minor improvement but nothing miraculous. First I told her to continue eating her liver which she was eating 4 ounces 3 or 4 times a week but to stop washing her face with product and only wash with water. Within about 2 weeks there was noticeable improvement. Then I told her to reduce her liver intake to 4 ounces once a week and to eat either 1-2 oyster a day or a stack of them in one day once a week. I also told her to reduce her red meat to 4 ounces one or two times a week and replace those meals with more milk products, starch, and fruit. After about 2 weeks new acne stopped appearing and from there out her face began to heal. It’s been several years and with each passing year her scaring becomes less and less visible. She lives on the coast in a sunny climate and is outside all the time.

Another woman I advised was in her 50’s she was having trouble losing about 10 pounds and her skin was fairly clear but she had persistent white and black heads (blackheads on the nose, white heads in the chin area). She was eating about 1800 kcals a day. I told her to include oysters and shrimp in her diet and to drink more milk products, and in particular eat more starch in the form of white potato. She didn't eat liver as frequently but she did eat about 4 ounces periodically. I also told her to eat about 1000 kcals more than she was eating. In two weeks she lost 10 pounds eating more than she had ever eaten in her life. In 4 weeks the white and blackheads were gone and her pale skin turned to a healthy tan color despite working in an office setting and not getting a lot of outdoor time. She eats more than her husband who is obese. For whatever reason potato seems to be effective at eliminating blackheads, I’m not exactly sure of the mechanism. There is some evidence that Vitamin B6 plays an indirect role.

....

His own account:

There was a period of time where my skin was dry and I was drinking plenty of milk, eating plenty of liver, and zinc seemed sufficient. One day I decided to drink lemonade over the day so I sipped on that for several hours and the next day there was a dramatic improvement in skin quality. So I repeated that several days while somewhat reducing my milk intake, and my skin continued to improve. Despite eating less daily nutrients.

If you are stressed the idea of sipping on lemonade or another fruit juice throughout the day works for a couple reasons, but primarily it's an effective way at suppressing free fatty acids. If you suppress free fatty acids stress goes down and your body can begin to heal. And once you become glycogen replete the sipping becomes optional.

Over a long period of time I have noticed that if you are eating enough nutrient rich carbohydrate whether it be potato or orange juice that overall nutrients are used more efficiently.

....

I went ahead and confirmed with Ray what I wrote since I could detect some resistance to the mechanism I was describing, here is what he had to say:

"If a person is already hypothyroid, 8 ounces of liver a week could be enough to make it worse, so it's essential to watch for its effects. There are several ways that zinc and vitamin A interact, supporting protein and steroid synthesis and cell differentiation."

"it" being acne.

So I would experiment with reducing iron intake and increasing zinc intake. It may be that reducing iron enough will be sufficient to bring up zinc levels but if that doesn't you would want to experiment with zinc rich foods.
 

Peata

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I paid a lot of attention to what Edward said. His posts got me researching all over the net on zinc and acne and my other symptoms too.

If anyone is interested, they should read through the whole thread that I posted above.
 

Peata

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From Ray Peat to me regarding zinc and what I've experienced:

It helps to maintain progesterone synthesis, and is needed for many
other processes related to the skin. It's an oxidant, so using it
regularly as a supplement can interfere with vitamins in the diet. Once
the body's stores are replenished, they can probably be replenished with
natural foods.


Biol Reprod. 2012 Jan 19;86(1):1-8.
Copper/zinc superoxide dismutase insufficiency impairs progesterone
secretion and
fertility in female mice.
Noda Y, Ota K, Shirasawa T, Shimizu T.
Molecular Gerontology, Tokyo Metropolitan Institute of Gerontology, Japan.
Copper/zinc superoxide dismutase (CuZn-SOD, SOD1) is one of the major
antioxidant
enzymes, and is localized in the cytoplasm to scavenge superoxide. To
investigate
the physiological role of SOD1 in the ovaries, we analyzed the fertility of
Sod1-deficient female mice. To evaluate their hormonal metabolism, we
measured
pituitary and ovarian hormone levels in the plasma of the mutant mice.
Plasma
follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, and estradiol were
not altered
in the mutant compared to the wild-type females, while the plasma
progesterone
level was significantly reduced in the mutant females. Furthermore, the
mutant
mice showed decreased progesterone secretion under the condition of
superovulation. In a histochemical analysis, we observed a remarkable
reduction
in the corpus luteum area in the mutant ovaries without atrophic
changes. The
mutant mice also displayed enhanced superoxide generation in the region
surrounding the corpora lutea, which was associated with increased apoptotic
cells and suppressed vasculature. These results suggested that SOD1
deficiency
dysregulated luteal formation because of increased superoxide generation
in the
ovary. In vitro fertilization experiments showed no abnormal
fertilization of
Sod1-deficient oocytes. In addition, when Sod1-deficient embryos were
transferred
into the oviducts of wild-type females, mutant embryos developed at a normal
rate, indicating that SOD1 deficiency in embryos did not cause
miscarriage in the
uterus of wild-type females. These results indicated that increased
intracellular
ROS impaired luteal formation and progesterone production in the mutant
females,
thus suggesting that SOD1 plays a crucial role in both the luteal
function and
the maintenance of fertility in female mice.
 

lovelife

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THANK YOU!!
I'm really excited about this zinc thing.

My story:
So, growing up I didn't have bad acne, but I had some zits that seems to correspond somewhat with my cycle. But I pretty much always had a couple and then for a short while each month I'd get a decent amount. Nothing too bad though and I never really referred to it as acne.. just zits/breakouts. At the time though I had a great metabolism.. I could each whatever I wanted and my weight stayed the same. I'm short (little over 5'2"), but I was a size zero freshman year no matter how much food I stuffed in my mouth LOL. It was a fun time. I knew I was most likely zinc deficient though as I had white spots on my nails all the time and my nails would split a lot. I was young though and didn't care much. Then I gained a few lbs at about 19 and became concerned about my weight. Sadly I wasn't heavy at all I just thought I was. Which led me to start looking into nutrition. Then I became a vegetarian at 21 and everything went downhill from there.

I quickly became a vegan for a couple years then veg again and then paleo and now have been starting more Peat things. During my vegan/veg times everything went horribly for me. I gained quite a bit of weight, my teeth are ridiculously bad now, my hair started getting split ends, my nails stayed bad, I now have keritosis pilaris on my arms and legs and face, I have fordyce spots on my lips, I have horrible stretch marks on my thighs (no children though), and gluten seems to bother my immune system (though I don't feel bad when I eat it) by inflaming lymph nodes.

Anyways... acne... It went away almost completely when I went gluten free and very very little dairy. Since starting more Peat eating it has come back and with a vengence. As long as I stay away from gluten it rarely happens on most of my face, but the I have been getting bad cyctic acne on my jaw line, neck and chest. I thought it was the dairy.. and I do think it's linked, but I'm also wondering about the zinc thing. As one of the best things about when I was strict paleo/dr kruse style was that the lack of grains seemed to help in the assimilating minerals/vitamins better (tho it messed with my thyroid).

It has been following my cycle almost exactly now. But, last wk all of a sudden things just randomly started getting better then got worse again, but I couldn't figure out what had made the difference for a few days. Now that you wrote this I think it was the zinc I took. Since I have KP and I had genetic testing done and know I have a gene that corresponds to a 35% less ability to assimilate Vit A from non retinol sources and some have linked it to a lack of vit A... (though liver never helped with mine).. I on occasion take Vit A. When I take it I also take zinc as I know it helps to assimilate vit A. But I only have been taking it sporadically for a few reasons... I don't want too much A, I might also have some genes that lead to either high or low copper and I know zinc is n opposition to it... I'm too poor to get any tests to know my copper levels though.

So, I think I will try what you have been doing as it sounds so much like my issues. I'm really excited for this to be a possibility..and I wonder if maybe it will end up helping my KP as well.. since Vit A doesn't seem to be working for me like it does other people's KP.

If it works I will write back with my experience. Is there a certain type of zinc you take? I have the 50mg tablets as well in Zinc Gluconate.

I'm excited that it seems to work right away for you so I hopefully won't have to wait wks/mths to see if it's working. I will start tomorrow as I have some cyctic acne and some regular ones as well right now. :)
 

Mittir

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Here is a quote from an old post by Rayser
Peat also send me some studies connecting zinc supplements with a higher incidence of breast cancer. He mentioned that I probably irritated my stomach very badly by using those supplements. I asked if he was talking about these specific supplements and if there were any good and safe once. "Oysters are a good and safe source for zinc and for copper" was the answer.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1597&start=30#p19365
 

Peata

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@lovelife - You will be especially interested in reading that whole thread I linked, about Vitamin A and Acne. Here it is again in case you haven't read it: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1491&hilit=zinc+acne

I also made sure I was getting adequate Vitamin A in my diet when I started the zinc. I get 4,000 - 8,000 iu in diet, more on day I have liver. Also I make sure my B6 is up, since I've also read there are connections with A, B6, Zinc. I get 3 - 6 mg.

I use gluconate. It's just what I had in the cabinet.

@Mittir - My goal is to be able to use food alone for zinc eventually. I initially didn't want to use supplements, and Edward didn't promote zinc supplement use or high doses either, just in case anyone thinks that. He promoted zinc through food. It's just that for my specific condition, oysters weren't enough. I feel that I had to get on top of this problem and get it under control first, which is what seems to be happening.
 

Peata

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When I was looking up info on zinc over the last week, I also came across some info about zinc and breast cancer, and also prostate cancer. So there is a lot more to know and I think everyone has to make the choice for themselves to supplement or not. I don't think using high dose supplements long term will be wise.
 

Peata

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@lovelife - I wanted to add that I track my nutrients in cronometer and make sure I'm covered there with everything (80 g. protein, higher calcium to phosph, low PUFA, magnesium, D, etc.) And I worked on diet and supplementing for 6 months to help thyroid. The acne seemed to be one of the last pieces of the puzzle I couldn't find a fit.
 

Peata

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http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Zinc-H ... fessional/

Health Risks from Excessive Zinc

Zinc toxicity can occur in both acute and chronic forms. Acute adverse effects of high zinc intake include nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, and headaches [2]. One case report cited severe nausea and vomiting within 30 minutes of ingesting 4 g of zinc gluconate (570 mg elemental zinc) [81]. Intakes of 150–450 mg of zinc per day have been associated with such chronic effects as low copper status, altered iron function, reduced immune function, and reduced levels of high-density lipoproteins [82]. Reductions in a copper-containing enzyme, a marker of copper status, have been reported with even moderately high zinc intakes of approximately 60 mg/day for up to 10 weeks [2]. The doses of zinc used in the AREDS study (80 mg per day of zinc in the form of zinc oxide for 6.3 years, on average) have been associated with a significant increase in hospitalizations for genitourinary causes, raising the possibility that chronically high intakes of zinc adversely affect some aspects of urinary physiology [83].

The FNB has established ULs for zinc (Table 3). Long-term intakes above the UL increase the risk of adverse health effects [2]. The ULs do not apply to individuals receiving zinc for medical treatment, but such individuals should be under the care of a physician who monitors them for adverse health effects.
 

Peata

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So far today I've only had 20 mg. zinc (this is from both food and supp. - I can break the pills down into 12.5 mg pieces).

Skin is staying nicely calm as of 2 p.m. without the high doses needed in the last week....
 

charlie

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Peata, what supplement zinc are you using.

I have to admit my interest is piqued with the zinc stuff. I remember watching someone talk about it often on another forum. And then when edward talked about it my ears definitely perked up and I have tried to increase my oysters since then.

I wonder, and this is only a theory and I dont truly understand how all this zinc and vitamin A stuff works on a scientific level. So this is just a guess from my observations. I wonder if metabolism raises, beyond the amount of zinc that is available for an individual, then, all the skin stuff starts happening, then people take a bunch of vitamin A and that lowers the metabolism back down so that you now needs less zinc and then skin stuff stops happening because of the lower needs of zinc now. Hope that makes sense. :lol:
 

Peata

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Charlie, It's just Sundown Naturals brand. I bought it either at Walmart or Kroger. I'm sure it has the bad additives, but it's just what I already had in my cabinet. I bought it in spring 2012 after spending some time reading about zinc and acne, but I took very little and quit promptly after reading scary things about too much zinc.

It's zinc gluconate, btw.

Your theory may have truth, I just know my problems with acne reach far, far back into my life. Some disturbance in the metabolism from a young age, resulting in PCOS, anxiety issues and all that.
 

charlie

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Well definitely please keep us posted. This could possibly be a big link for people. :hattip
 

Ari

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Great post, thanks for rounding up all this useful info. I've been inspired to take in more oysters and see what I notice.

Just ate a can and I swear my skin is more healthy looking already. Who knows.

Anyways, i've seen some of the same benefits you refer to by abstaining from all forms of sexual activity as well. Usually takes about a week to notice a difference especially in hair and skin quality. Maybe something to look into, and might only be for men. Dunno. Someone should try and connect the dots
 

marcar72

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Ari said:
Anyways, i've seen some of the same benefits you refer to by abstaining from all forms of sexual activity as well. Usually takes about a week to notice a difference especially in hair and skin quality. Maybe something to look into, and might only be for men. Dunno. Someone should try and connect the dots

I can attest to this as well. Sexual activity does tend to increase the chance of acne forming in both sexes from what I've read on the internet. I'm not totally sure of the mechanism(s) involved but for men I seem to remember it being an increase in sebum production and I would guess a zinc deficiency as well since there's a lot of zinc in semen. (maybe not soo much after looking further into it)

It's pretty easy to see for oneself. Just maintain some abstinence for awhile and notice the difference. Then screw around a bit :lol: (pun intended) and notice a difference again... :2cents
 

Peata

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Ari, Marcar, that's interesting. I read that a man loses 3 mg. of zinc per ejaculation. If someone was already deficient in zinc, not replacing it adequately in diet, or not utilizing zinc well, I can see how this could cause a problem.
 

Ari

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marcar72 said:
I can attest to this as well. Sexual activity does tend to increase the chance of acne forming in both sexes from what I've read on the internet. I'm not totally sure of the mechanism(s) involved but for men I seem to remember it being an increase in sebum production and I would guess a zinc deficiency as well since there's a lot of zinc in semen. (maybe not soo much after looking further into it)

It's pretty easy to see for oneself. Just maintain some abstinence for awhile and notice the difference. Then screw around a bit :lol: (pun intended) and notice a difference again... :2cents


Peata said:
Ari, Marcar, that's interesting. I read that a man loses 3 mg. of zinc per ejaculation. If someone was already deficient in zinc, not replacing it adequately in diet, or not utilizing zinc well, I can see how this could cause a problem.

Hmm yeah, the zinc thing might explain it. I looked into it as well and 3mg doesn't sound like much but that's probably not the whole picture, and as with all things, the levels probably fluctuate depending on the health and vitality of the individual.

And if it all does tie back into zinc, then that gives this thread another boost. Gonna really make sure I get a lot of zinc in and see if I notice any differences.
 
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