17 Super Snacks "Not All Ray Peat Approved"

Evelynqa

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
6
Age
33
Location
GTA
From http://nutritionbynature.com.au/


1. Ripe fruit and a chunk of good cheese. Filling and nutritious, the fruit and cheese combo is delicious – try goats cheese + pear, grapes + cheddar, fresh figs + blue cheese. Just make sure you go for quality cheese – from grass-grazing cattle, raw cheese if you can get it.

2. Boiled eggs. Your natural multivitamin in a single food (read more about the nutritional value of eggs here). Jazz them up with a little unrefined sea salt and cracked pepper, a smear of organic butter or a dollop of home-made pesto (recipe) and you’re good to go. Combine with a piece of fresh fruit.

3. Leftovers. A small piece of fish with a few slices of cooked sweet potato, a little leftover steak and veg, home-made curry, stir-fry, root vegetable soup, etc. Leftovers from home-cooked meals can make for the most satisfying and nutritious snacks, and tend to be fairly well-balanced options in terms of providing good amounts of all your macronutrients.

4. Warm milk and honey. Who doesn’t love a warm cup of milk with honey? Add chai spices (cinnamon, cloves, star anise, ginger, etc) and sea salt for a beautiful snack that’s soothing to the adrenal glands and will help to reduce any excess stimulation of cortisol and adrenalin in the body (although you may just want to curl up and nod off afterwards!).

5. Raw carrot salad. Sorry to go all “rabbit food” on you, but a raw carrot is actually a great thing to include in your diet. Carrots (and bamboo shoots) contain unique fibres that have a natural antibiotic effect in the gut, reduce inflammation, and can bind to and help eliminate excess hormones and endotoxin. Grate it up and combine with a little coconut oil and cinnamon, or chop it up into sticks to dip in homemade pate, pesto, strained yoghurt, etc.

6. Coconut – fresh or dried. Dried coconut chips or flakes are an easy snack that will give you a good serving of medium-chain saturated fatty acids, fibre and potassium (read more about the benefits of coconut here) – you can eat them on their own or sprinkle them over cut fruit and/or yoghurt. Seek out a young Thai (green) coconut and crack it open to reap the benefits of the fresh coconut water, and scoop out the soft flesh of the coconut as well. If you’re feeling up to it, a spoonful of cold coconut butter or oil (it goes hard in the fridge or cool pantry) is a fantastic hunger-buster and will help to nip cravings in the bud.

7. A fruit-based smoothie. Add plenty of fresh fruit, milk, yoghurt or coconut milk, cocoa powder, cinnamon, untreated honey, etc. If you’re game – add egg yolks and/or gelatin for an incredibly nutritious snack.

8. Olives. Olives are great to nibble on, although go for quality olives preserved in extra virgin olive oil over the canned varieties. They’re full of monounsaturated fatty acids – try kalamatas or large green olives stuffed with sheep’s milk feta for a little added protein, and eat them alongside a good few handfuls of crunchy capsicum or fresh pear slices.

9. Frittata. Sliced potato with rosemary, zucchini and roast tomatoes is a favourite combination of mine for an egg frittata or Spanish tortilla, (see above, about eggs). It’s all too easy to cook up a big frittata on the weekend and cut it into slices ready to go for meals and snacks during the week. You can even freeze the portions and defrost/reheat them as you need – great served cold or reheated.

10. Strained yoghurt or kefir. A nice balance of fats, carbohydrates (from the milk sugars) and complete protein. Avoid the skim varieties and ones loaded with additives, and spend the extra money on a beautiful organic goat, sheep or cow’s milk variety with no added milk solids or gums. There should be just two ingredients listed on your yoghurt – whole milk and live cultures. Add some fresh fruit such as berries or papaya, or even a raw grated carrot, honey, and a dash of cinnamon.

11. Quality chocolate. Seriously good, but we’re talking about real bittersweet chocolate, with a high-percentage of cocoa solids – at least 70, if not 85 or 90%. It’ll give you a nice dose of magnesium, plus quality fats to keep you going. For an even more nutritious option with the added bonus of coconut oil, see here for the recipe for coconut oil chocolate with sea salt and chilli.

12. Bone broth. If you’re up for it, a cup of well-prepared bone broth (or stock) is a brilliant snack (and a great thing to try and get into your diet as often as possible). Add plenty of sweet beets, sea salt and fresh herbs – it will win you over! For more on the benefits of bone stock and gelatin, see this post and this one.

13. Sweet potato chips. Completely addictive. Just cut sweet potatoes into wedges or thin discs and shallow fry in a little butter or coconut oil, before draining on paper towel and tossing with herbs or cinnamon and sea salt. Serve with a little pure sour cream if you like.

14. Macadamia nuts. The top pick out of the various types of nuts for their low inflammatory polyunsaturated fat content and high percentage of monounsaturated fatty acids.For chocolate-covered macadamias, simply dip the macadamias in a little melted 85% dark chocolate and cool on baking paper.

15. Baked spud. Bake sweet or white potatoes whole for at least 40 minutes and enjoy hot or cold with a dollop of natural, organic yoghurt, grated cheese or sour cream and a sprinkling of herbs, dried chilli and spices – whichever tickles your fancy.

16. Berries and coconut milk. Yet another coconut option, but a good one to include! You could even use few tablespoons of pure, organic cream (read more in this post) for a hefty dose of fat-soluble vitamins A, D and K and conjugated linoleic acid. Proof that healthy food can taste pretty wonderful!

17. Pâté. Liver is one of the world’s most amazing foods – it’s one of the highest sources of dietary iron available to us, as well as being incredibly rich in a whole host of other micronutrients: vitamin C, B vitamins, zinc, selenium, vitamin A, vitamin D, choline, phosphorus and manganese. Albeit, liver can be a little hard to stomach for the initiated, so pâté is a brilliant way to get in this superfood. Choose a quality pâté (preferably organic) made with natural butter and herbs, and serve with some carrot, cucumber or capsicum slices for dipping.
 

PeatFeat

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
55
Re: 17 super snacks

Cool ideas! Although I see some non-Peat approved ingredients in there, I don't think they would hurt if used on occasion. Can't be too strict!
 

peatarian

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
313
Re: 17 super snacks

I'm sorry I didn't find much on that list that's absolutely Peat.
I wouldn't bother you with this because it looks like you went to a lot of trouble writing this down but there are so many new members now who might rely on the recipes being "Ray Peat" that I want to mention it.

I recommend you read this article: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/vegetables.shtml
 

Evelynqa

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Thread starter
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
6
Age
33
Location
GTA
Re: 17 super snacks

Hi Peatarian:)I know you are way more experienced with this diet than me ,so I really appreciate your input!

non-Peat ingredients are :

-yoghurt or kefir(although even R.P.mentioned somewhere that small amount is fine,like 1oz)
-coconut/coconut milk (if not allergic,small amounts won't hurt)
-macadamia nuts(which are the best chocice if you want something nutty,once in a while)
-berries,figs(occassionaly) seeds in fruits could be problematic
-sweet potatoes(too much beta-carotene could be a problem for some)
-"Black olives contain iron, which is used as a coloring material"


Am I missing something?

Some people may react to all of this,I can't eat anything related to coconut,even refined coconut oil gives me pimples on my chest,so I avoid it,and no matter how wonderful the benefits are I will not force myself into consuming it,but on the other hand berries,especially wild blueberries in the summer are amazing treat for me. These are only suggestions (not even mine :D ) which, I think, are worth experimenting with.
 

peatarian

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
313
Re: 17 super snacks

Evelynqa said:
From http://nutritionbynature.com.au/


1. Ripe fruit and a chunk of good cheese. Filling and nutritious, the fruit and cheese combo is delicious – try goats cheese + pear, grapes + cheddar, fresh figs + blue cheese. Just make sure you go for quality cheese – from grass-grazing cattle, raw cheese if you can get it.

Ray Peat mentions that cooking pears and apples for an hour makes them 'less harmful'. Figs are the most potent way to raise your serotonin level naturally. In Arabic the name for figs translates 'mad fruit'.

2. Boiled eggs. Your natural multivitamin in a single food (read more about the nutritional value of eggs here). Jazz them up with a little unrefined sea salt and cracked pepper, a smear of organic butter or a dollop of home-made pesto (recipe) and you’re good to go. Combine with a piece of fresh fruit.

You should always fry your eggs in a pan with coconut oil to counter the PUFA in them. Don't eat more than 2 a day. Peat never recommends sea salt, especially not the unrefined kind. There are impurities in it which can be harmful. Pesto contains herbs which Ray Peat tells us to stay away from (Have you read the article I linked?). Pepper has a higher toxicity than DDT.

3. Leftovers. A small piece of fish with a few slices of cooked sweet potato, a little leftover steak and veg, home-made curry, stir-fry, root vegetable soup, etc. Leftovers from home-cooked meals can make for the most satisfying and nutritious snacks, and tend to be fairly well-balanced options in terms of providing good amounts of all your macronutrients.

Leftovers are always problematic, especially if there are vegetables included. The PUFA in them will oxidize. There are only two kinds of fish Ray Peat suggests. And even those not more than once a moth for selenium.

4. Warm milk and honey. Who doesn’t love a warm cup of milk with honey? Add chai spices (cinnamon, cloves, star anise, ginger, etc) and sea salt for a beautiful snack that’s soothing to the adrenal glands and will help to reduce any excess stimulation of cortisol and adrenalin in the body (although you may just want to curl up and nod off afterwards!).

Ray Peat doesn't use spices. They can be very toxic.

5. Raw carrot salad. Sorry to go all “rabbit food” on you, but a raw carrot is actually a great thing to include in your diet. Carrots (and bamboo shoots) contain unique fibres that have a natural antibiotic effect in the gut, reduce inflammation, and can bind to and help eliminate excess hormones and endotoxin. Grate it up and combine with a little coconut oil and cinnamon, or chop it up into sticks to dip in homemade pate, pesto, strained yoghurt, etc.

Ray Peat says 'if you absolutely have to eat yoghurt - do not eat more than one table spoon a day. And that only if you are really healthy and don't have any stomach problems.

6. Coconut – fresh or dried. Dried coconut chips or flakes are an easy snack that will give you a good serving of medium-chain saturated fatty acids, fibre and potassium (read more about the benefits of coconut here) – you can eat them on their own or sprinkle them over cut fruit and/or yoghurt. Seek out a young Thai (green) coconut and crack it open to reap the benefits of the fresh coconut water, and scoop out the soft flesh of the coconut as well. If you’re feeling up to it, a spoonful of cold coconut butter or oil (it goes hard in the fridge or cool pantry) is a fantastic hunger-buster and will help to nip cravings in the bud.

Coconuts are highly allergenic and don't have many benefits. Ray Peat never recommends to eat coconuts.

7. A fruit-based smoothie. Add plenty of fresh fruit, milk, yoghurt or coconut milk, cocoa powder, cinnamon, untreated honey, etc. If you’re game – add egg yolks and/or gelatin for an incredibly nutritious snack.

Honey can be allergenic. Ray Peat told about its use in wounds. But not orally, topically.

8. Olives. Olives are great to nibble on, although go for quality olives preserved in extra virgin olive oil over the canned varieties. They’re full of monounsaturated fatty acids – try kalamatas or large green olives stuffed with sheep’s milk feta for a little added protein, and eat them alongside a good few handfuls of crunchy capsicum or fresh pear slices.

Yes, olives usually contain iron. Also the olive oil they are in is usually something else. Put in your fridge and see if it goes flaky and nearly hard. It usually doesn't.

9. Frittata. Sliced potato with rosemary, zucchini and roast tomatoes is a favourite combination of mine for an egg frittata or Spanish tortilla, (see above, about eggs). It’s all too easy to cook up a big frittata on the weekend and cut it into slices ready to go for meals and snacks during the week. You can even freeze the portions and defrost/reheat them as you need – great served cold or reheated.

I've heard Ray Peat recommend tomatoes if they are raw and without seeds. Rosemary is definitely not Ray Peat. (Who defines food?)

10. Strained yoghurt or kefir. A nice balance of fats, carbohydrates (from the milk sugars) and complete protein. Avoid the skim varieties and ones loaded with additives, and spend the extra money on a beautiful organic goat, sheep or cow’s milk variety with no added milk solids or gums. There should be just two ingredients listed on your yoghurt – whole milk and live cultures. Add some fresh fruit such as berries or papaya, or even a raw grated carrot, honey, and a dash of cinnamon.


The grated carrot would be okay.

11. Quality chocolate. Seriously good, but we’re talking about real bittersweet chocolate, with a high-percentage of cocoa solids – at least 70, if not 85 or 90%. It’ll give you a nice dose of magnesium, plus quality fats to keep you going. For an even more nutritious option with the added bonus of coconut oil, see here for the recipe for coconut oil chocolate with sea salt and chilli.

12. Bone broth. If you’re up for it, a cup of well-prepared bone broth (or stock) is a brilliant snack (and a great thing to try and get into your diet as often as possible). Add plenty of sweet beets, sea salt and fresh herbs – it will win you over! For more on the benefits of bone stock and gelatin, see this post and this one.

13. Sweet potato chips. Completely addictive. Just cut sweet potatoes into wedges or thin discs and shallow fry in a little butter or coconut oil, before draining on paper towel and tossing with herbs or cinnamon and sea salt. Serve with a little pure sour cream if you like.

14. Macadamia nuts. The top pick out of the various types of nuts for their low inflammatory polyunsaturated fat content and high percentage of monounsaturated fatty acids.For chocolate-covered macadamias, simply dip the macadamias in a little melted 85% dark chocolate and cool on baking paper.

15. Baked spud. Bake sweet or white potatoes whole for at least 40 minutes and enjoy hot or cold with a dollop of natural, organic yoghurt, grated cheese or sour cream and a sprinkling of herbs, dried chilli and spices – whichever tickles your fancy.

16. Berries and coconut milk. Yet another coconut option, but a good one to include! You could even use few tablespoons of pure, organic cream (read more in this post) for a hefty dose of fat-soluble vitamins A, D and K and conjugated linoleic acid. Proof that healthy food can taste pretty wonderful!

You do know that linoleic acid is something we avoid, right?

17. Pâté. Liver is one of the world’s most amazing foods – it’s one of the highest sources of dietary iron available to us, as well as being incredibly rich in a whole host of other micronutrients: vitamin C, B vitamins, zinc, selenium, vitamin A, vitamin D, choline, phosphorus and manganese. Albeit, liver can be a little hard to stomach for the initiated, so pâté is a brilliant way to get in this superfood. Choose a quality pâté (preferably organic) made with natural butter and herbs, and serve with some carrot, cucumber or capsicum slices for dipping.

The iron is something we avoid, too. That's why we drink coffee or coke with liver.

The bold parts are not Peat. Maybe you read the article I linked you?
 

peatarian

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
313
Re: 17 super snacks

Most of us are trying to stick as closely to Ray Peat as possible. I think the recipe section should honor that. We all know how to eat 'not Peat'.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,987
Location
USA
Re: 17 super snacks

Peatarian, you are very right. Thank you for pointing this out. I will find another place for this post. We should keep all these posts in here very Peaty.
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Re: 17 super snacks

peatarian said:
Evelynqa said:
From http://nutritionbynature.com.au/


1. Ripe fruit and a chunk of good cheese. Filling and nutritious, the fruit and cheese combo is delicious – try goats cheese + pear, grapes + cheddar, fresh figs + blue cheese. Just make sure you go for quality cheese – from grass-grazing cattle, raw cheese if you can get it.

Ray Peat mentions that cooking pears and apples for an hour makes them 'less harmful'. Figs are the most potent way to raise your serotonin level naturally. In Arabic the name for figs translates 'mad fruit'.

2. Boiled eggs. Your natural multivitamin in a single food (read more about the nutritional value of eggs here). Jazz them up with a little unrefined sea salt and cracked pepper, a smear of organic butter or a dollop of home-made pesto (recipe) and you’re good to go. Combine with a piece of fresh fruit.

You should always fry your eggs in a pan with coconut oil to counter the PUFA in them. Don't eat more than 2 a day. Peat never recommends sea salt, especially not the unrefined kind. There are impurities in it which can be harmful. Pesto contains herbs which Ray Peat tells us to stay away from (Have you read the article I linked?). Pepper has a higher toxicity than DDT.

3. Leftovers. A small piece of fish with a few slices of cooked sweet potato, a little leftover steak and veg, home-made curry, stir-fry, root vegetable soup, etc. Leftovers from home-cooked meals can make for the most satisfying and nutritious snacks, and tend to be fairly well-balanced options in terms of providing good amounts of all your macronutrients.

Leftovers are always problematic, especially if there are vegetables included. The PUFA in them will oxidize. There are only two kinds of fish Ray Peat suggests. And even those not more than once a moth for selenium.

4. Warm milk and honey. Who doesn’t love a warm cup of milk with honey? Add chai spices (cinnamon, cloves, star anise, ginger, etc) and sea salt for a beautiful snack that’s soothing to the adrenal glands and will help to reduce any excess stimulation of cortisol and adrenalin in the body (although you may just want to curl up and nod off afterwards!).

Ray Peat doesn't use spices. They can be very toxic.

5. Raw carrot salad. Sorry to go all “rabbit food” on you, but a raw carrot is actually a great thing to include in your diet. Carrots (and bamboo shoots) contain unique fibres that have a natural antibiotic effect in the gut, reduce inflammation, and can bind to and help eliminate excess hormones and endotoxin. Grate it up and combine with a little coconut oil and cinnamon, or chop it up into sticks to dip in homemade pate, pesto, strained yoghurt, etc.

Ray Peat says 'if you absolutely have to eat yoghurt - do not eat more than one table spoon a day. And that only if you are really healthy and don't have any stomach problems.

6. Coconut – fresh or dried. Dried coconut chips or flakes are an easy snack that will give you a good serving of medium-chain saturated fatty acids, fibre and potassium (read more about the benefits of coconut here) – you can eat them on their own or sprinkle them over cut fruit and/or yoghurt. Seek out a young Thai (green) coconut and crack it open to reap the benefits of the fresh coconut water, and scoop out the soft flesh of the coconut as well. If you’re feeling up to it, a spoonful of cold coconut butter or oil (it goes hard in the fridge or cool pantry) is a fantastic hunger-buster and will help to nip cravings in the bud.

Coconuts are highly allergenic and don't have benefits. Ray Peat never recommends to eat coconuts.

7. A fruit-based smoothie. Add plenty of fresh fruit, milk, yoghurt or coconut milk, cocoa powder, cinnamon, untreated honey, etc. If you’re game – add egg yolks and/or gelatin for an incredibly nutritious snack.

Honey can be allergenic. Ray Peat told about its use in wounds. But not orally, topically.

8. Olives. Olives are great to nibble on, although go for quality olives preserved in extra virgin olive oil over the canned varieties. They’re full of monounsaturated fatty acids – try kalamatas or large green olives stuffed with sheep’s milk feta for a little added protein, and eat them alongside a good few handfuls of crunchy capsicum or fresh pear slices.

Yes, olives usually contain iron. Also the olive oil they are in is usually something else. Put in your fridge and see if it goes flaky and nearly hard. It usually doesn't.

9. Frittata. Sliced potato with rosemary, zucchini and roast tomatoes is a favourite combination of mine for an egg frittata or Spanish tortilla, (see above, about eggs). It’s all too easy to cook up a big frittata on the weekend and cut it into slices ready to go for meals and snacks during the week. You can even freeze the portions and defrost/reheat them as you need – great served cold or reheated.

I've heard Ray Peat recommend tomatoes if they are raw and without seeds. Rosemary is definitely not Ray Peat. (Who defines food?)

10. Strained yoghurt or kefir. A nice balance of fats, carbohydrates (from the milk sugars) and complete protein. Avoid the skim varieties and ones loaded with additives, and spend the extra money on a beautiful organic goat, sheep or cow’s milk variety with no added milk solids or gums. There should be just two ingredients listed on your yoghurt – whole milk and live cultures. Add some fresh fruit such as berries or papaya, or even a raw grated carrot, honey, and a dash of cinnamon.


The grated carrot would be okay.

11. Quality chocolate. Seriously good, but we’re talking about real bittersweet chocolate, with a high-percentage of cocoa solids – at least 70, if not 85 or 90%. It’ll give you a nice dose of magnesium, plus quality fats to keep you going. For an even more nutritious option with the added bonus of coconut oil, see here for the recipe for coconut oil chocolate with sea salt and chilli.

12. Bone broth. If you’re up for it, a cup of well-prepared bone broth (or stock) is a brilliant snack (and a great thing to try and get into your diet as often as possible). Add plenty of sweet beets, sea salt and fresh herbs – it will win you over! For more on the benefits of bone stock and gelatin, see this post and this one.

13. Sweet potato chips. Completely addictive. Just cut sweet potatoes into wedges or thin discs and shallow fry in a little butter or coconut oil, before draining on paper towel and tossing with herbs or cinnamon and sea salt. Serve with a little pure sour cream if you like.

14. Macadamia nuts. The top pick out of the various types of nuts for their low inflammatory polyunsaturated fat content and high percentage of monounsaturated fatty acids.For chocolate-covered macadamias, simply dip the macadamias in a little melted 85% dark chocolate and cool on baking paper.

15. Baked spud. Bake sweet or white potatoes whole for at least 40 minutes and enjoy hot or cold with a dollop of natural, organic yoghurt, grated cheese or sour cream and a sprinkling of herbs, dried chilli and spices – whichever tickles your fancy.

16. Berries and coconut milk. Yet another coconut option, but a good one to include! You could even use few tablespoons of pure, organic cream (read more in this post) for a hefty dose of fat-soluble vitamins A, D and K and conjugated linoleic acid. Proof that healthy food can taste pretty wonderful!

You do know that linoleic acid is something we avoid, right?

17. Pâté. Liver is one of the world’s most amazing foods – it’s one of the highest sources of dietary iron available to us, as well as being incredibly rich in a whole host of other micronutrients: vitamin C, B vitamins, zinc, selenium, vitamin A, vitamin D, choline, phosphorus and manganese. Albeit, liver can be a little hard to stomach for the initiated, so pâté is a brilliant way to get in this superfood. Choose a quality pâté (preferably organic) made with natural butter and herbs, and serve with some carrot, cucumber or capsicum slices for dipping.

The iron is something we avoid, too. That's why we drink coffee or coke with liver.

The bold parts are not Peat. Maybe you read the article I linked you?

An interesting list, Evelynqa,
and a very thorough fisking, peatarian!

You'll hate me a little bit for this, I fear, peatarian--
co-opting your analysis and critique for my nefarious "Peat Diet" goals :cool: --
but the spirit of what you do here
resonates with me--in my wanting to strip away
some of the misunderstandings and lack of rigor
in many interpretations of an "Accurate Peat-Derived Diet" (or somesuch).

Evelynqa's list,
to my mind,
is nearly a model of fidelity compared against many Peat diet interpretations.
Not saying I disagree with your fisking peatarian.
In fact, I do, almost entirely, agree with your critique.

Doesn't this suggest that we are coming to rely upon a general and shared
--if unstated--
body of knowledge about the general shape of an accurate Peat-derived diet?

And mightn't it save a lot of time and effort and confusion
to try to express that somewhat generally and concisely
--even if just as a starting point?

It would seem, as we get to know Peat's ideas as well as you do,
that we--generally--start to reach an approximate consensus
about what is Peatian, and what is Not Peatian.

Of course "everybody is different" etc blah .
But...don't you think it would be possible
to provide some pretty clear outlines,
some rough approximations at least,
some valid generalizations
about the shape of a good, accurate, Peat-derived diet?

If we don't,
don't we invite anyone to feel authorized to make up their own interpretation of a Peat diet?
Is that really a beautiful thing?
I know it makes us feel very occult and inclusive and special and very very anti-authoritarian :D ...
...but: is that really helpful?

Please don't be mad at me, peatarian.
We love you here! :)
 

kiran

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
1,054
I think Peat must be pretty unique in that he thinks that some trans-fats like conjugated linoleic acid is actually good for you in that it neutralizes some PUFAs.


http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fa ... ion3.shtml

When meat is grilled at a high temperature, the normally spaced double bonds in PUFA migrate towards each other, becoming more stable, so that linoleic acid is turned into “conjugated linoleic acid.” This analog of the “essential” linoleic acid competes against the linoleic acid in tissues, and protects against cancer, atherosclerosis, inflammation and other effects of the normal PUFA. Presumably, anything which interferes with the essential fatty acids is protective, when the organism contains dangerous amounts of PUFA. Even the trans-isomers of the unsaturated fatty acids (found in butterfat, and convertible into conjugated linoleic acid) can be protective against cancer.
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
2,343
Location
USA
Re: 17 super snacks

peatarian said:
Most of us are trying to stick as closely to Ray Peat as possible. I think the recipe section should honor that. We all know how to eat 'not Peat'.
Exactly. When I see lists like this I am never willing to take the time as you have. Also, I feel too ill to do it. But I recognize the flaws immediately and groan.
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
2,343
Location
USA
I was just thinking how helpful all this discussion has been. Like narouz, I think, I see that having this list of "snacks" put up, and having things clarified by peatarian is a good thing.

A lot of misunderstanding of peat eating exists. People use what they think is healthy and tweak it with what they think Peat says. This can do a lot of harm. People will think that they've tried Peat when they really don't know his views at all.

Not everyone is equipped to read Peat's articles. That is a problem. Some do not have a science background and some are too sick to think.
:2cents
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,987
Location
USA
Re: 17 super snacks

Birdie said:
peatarian said:
Most of us are trying to stick as closely to Ray Peat as possible. I think the recipe section should honor that. We all know how to eat 'not Peat'.
Exactly. When I see lists like this I am never willing to take the time as you have. Also, I feel too ill to do it. But I recognize the flaws immediately and groan.

It definitely helps if you guys and gals speak up because I am not able to catch everything. Especially lately, I have been totally off due to messed up thyroid dosing and all. So if you see something wrong and are able to, let us know so we can deal with it accordingly and also get the right information to all the members. :ugeek:

I understand about not feeling good Birdie, I have definitely just went over stuff here lately just cause I can hardly pull a thought together sometimes. Especially when my heart is trying to break out of my chest. :lol:
 

kiran

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
1,054
Birdie said:
Not everyone is equipped to read Peat's articles. That is a problem. Some do not have a science background and some are too sick to think.
:2cents

And there's a *lot* to read and digest.
 

peatarian

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
313
Re: 17 super snacks

narouz said:
peatarian said:
Evelynqa said:
From http://nutritionbynature.com.au/

An interesting list, Evelynqa,
and a very thorough fisking, peatarian!

You'll hate me a little bit for this, I fear, peatarian--
co-opting your analysis and critique for my nefarious "Peat Diet" goals :cool: --
but the spirit of what you do here
resonates with me--in my wanting to strip away
some of the misunderstandings and lack of rigor
in many interpretations of an "Accurate Peat-Derived Diet" (or somesuch).

Evelynqa's list,
to my mind,
is nearly a model of fidelity compared against many Peat diet interpretations.
Not saying I disagree with your fisking peatarian.
In fact, I do, almost entirely, agree with your critique.

Doesn't this suggest that we are coming to rely upon a general and shared
--if unstated--
body of knowledge about the general shape of an accurate Peat-derived diet?

And mightn't it save a lot of time and effort and confusion
to try to express that somewhat generally and concisely
--even if just as a starting point?

It would seem, as we get to know Peat's ideas as well as you do,
that we--generally--start to reach an approximate consensus
about what is Peatian, and what is Not Peatian.

Of course "everybody is different" etc blah .
But...don't you think it would be possible
to provide some pretty clear outlines,
some rough approximations at least,
some valid generalizations
about the shape of a good, accurate, Peat-derived diet?

If we don't,
don't we invite anyone to feel authorized to make up their own interpretation of a Peat diet?
Is that really a beautiful thing?
I know it makes us feel very occult and inclusive and special and very very anti-authoritarian :D ...
...but: is that really helpful?

Please don't be mad at me, peatarian.
We love you here! :)


My dearest Narouz, I would never hate you - but you know that, right?

I know that your wish for a Dos-And-Don'ts-List pops up every now and then and you know I think it's the wrong way.

Ray Peat was asked once if he doesn't feel bored when he get's the 1.232.435th e-mail asking if sugar is bad and he answers for the 1.232.436th time: Orange Juice, Sugar, Milk ...

His answer was: Thinking about food, which kind is good for you and how to get it -- already changes you and starts a process with many beneficial effects, a healing process.

I suppose he meant that at the very moment we "realize that our human nature is problematic, we can begin to explore our best potentials". He doesn't say: do this and don't do that and you'll be fine.

You have to take responsibility, you have to be curious, to find out, to try out, to use your brain and to understand that you have to make the best of what you're offered.
Nobody can do that for you.
It awakens a new consciousness. I have told you before and I am telling you again: Ray Peat is not just about Food. He is not Diet.

If you don't understand why you eat what you eat and when you eat it, you are not up to the constant process of adjusting. I eat differently in winter than during summer. My body (and mind) require(s) different food and different amounts of food when I am stressed than when I have a day off. It's different whether you are a man or a woman, sick or healthy ... it changes depending on how much money I have and how much time. It changes with how I feel when I get up and during the day and how the weather is. There is no routine. I am adjusting all the time. I can do that because I know the Why behind the What.

I don't buy: "I can't read Ray Peat's articles because I'm not smart enough." That's just not true. When I started reading his articles I'd been told I was lethally sick. Yes, you have other things on your mind. Yes, there are some parts you don't understand at the beginning. It gets easier. After the 10th article you start to put the pieces together. Ray Peat's language is amazing. He writes to beautifully that reading him is a treat for me. But I get that for some people who are used to newspapers and current bestsellers, his language is challenging. There are passages every now and then I don't understand, either. I was kind of hoping the new newsletters would be discussed here and was a little disappointed to see that hardly anybody reads them. But the older articles are all online and they can be understood. It might take time. You have to read them slowly, think about sentences, yes. But I can't think of anything more worth reading than this.

Of course everything is open for interpretation. That's why this forum is interesting for me. You learn a lot when you ask a question and it is answered. But you also learn a lot when you answer a question. Everything you read and hear and smell and taste is interpreted by you.
And yes: I think that is beautiful.
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
peatarian-

You know, the argument you put forth
is an interesting one,
and one that I've been contemplating for a while
since I came across something evocative of it from Peat himself
over on Danny Roddy's website:

“Making an effort to learn how to use techniques of food, hormones, light, activity, etc., is similar to the effort needed to work with a psychologist, and the effort itself is part of the therapy—-the particular orientation of the psychotherapist isn’t what’s therapeutic, it’s the ability to participate in meaningful interactions, that is, the ability to provide a situation in which the person can practice being human. When people start thinking about the things in their life that can be changed, they are exercising aspects of their organism that had been atrophied by being in an authoritarian culture. Authoritarians talk about protocols, but the only valid ‘protocol’ would be something like ‘perceive, think, act.’”— Raymond Peat, PhD

I see where he's coming from there,
and I agree with it.
But, to me personally, there is nothing particularly startling about it--
perhaps because I long ago distrusted "authoritarians,"
especially about health and diet.
Now, stepping outside of myself,
I do agree with Peat's tacit premise,
which is that most of us Do want an authoritarian (a doctor, for example)
to tell us what is right and what is wrong.
So maybe this is a blind spot for me.
My hobbyhorse (with stuff like "Notes Toward an Optimal Peat-Derived Diet)
is not motivated by a desire to have an authority figure
tell me--unthinkingly, uncritically, unskeptically--what to do.

Let me return to your very thorough and helpful "fisking" of Evelynqa's post
and let me pose a question:
Is the basic strategy employed in your much appreciated effort there
our best or only or most effective way to go?
Namely:
We receive various and sundry posts declaring what someone thinks a Peatian diet
IS,
and then
we repeatedly and exhaustingly(?) fisk in an effort to say what a Peat diet
IS NOT...?

Mightn't it be more effective to put forth--
even if only as a starting point
and strongly qualified as not intended as "one-size-fits-all
--our best estimate or generalization about what an accurate, faithful Peat diet might be?

Another take:
Are you advocating
that our best strategy as "Peat interpreters or seekers" (or somesuch)
is to intentionally reinforce a kind of occultism about Peat's work?

By "occultism" I don't mean to evoke witchcraft and the like.
I mean the aspect of "hiddenness."
The attitude that Peat's ideas should be deliberately left somewhat "hidden"
or resistant to interpretation.
Would you say that that is your view?

Please don't think I'd condemn you for such an outlook. :)
Actually, the view has its attractions!
The idea that PeatWorld is sortuv like a gnostic group,
admission to which requires some careful tuition, reading, effort, etc.
I understand the view,
and have some sympathy for it,
but...
...I just don't go along with for several reasons.

One could be approached in this question:
Is an intentional occultism, resistance, hiddenness
the best way to understand Peat's quote above?
I don't interpret it as meaning Peat thinks
that we should we should make understanding his work more difficult.

I'll return to this...gotta go to work? :cry:

(Oh yes--lest you think I missed your point about not reducing Peat to sheerly diet. I agree.
I just don't see that as a game-changer in this discussion.)
 

Birdie

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
2,343
Location
USA
Since peatarian mentioned it...

On the newsletters, I assumed that the reason we hadn't discussed them was that it's hard to do that when you think that they are not supposed to be reproduced. Not sure if I'm explaining myself.

But it would seem that if we discussed, say the last one on phosphate, that we would be giving away the whole newsletter. I would love it if we could discuss the newsletters. We would get a lot more out of them that way.

Do you all think that would be okay?
 

peatarian

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
313
Dear narouz,

however much you write, I read the same: You want to have rules about what's good and what's not.

If you want it that simple: milk, orange juice, carrots, eggs in coconut oil, liver (with coke or coffee) and oysters once a week, add salt and sugar and gelatine. Leave everything else out and you'll be fine.

You can live from that. You'll have all the nutrients.
How much of it should you eat? Is there something missing? Are there situations in which you shouldn't eat eggs? Or drink orange juice.
I don't know. Are you a pregnant woman or an eight year old child or a 200 pounds, 80 year old man?
Do you have cancer? Have you been diagnosed with MS? Or are you just overweight and feeling cold all the time or are you trying to have a baby and can't?
Maybe you should use antibiotics, maybe carrot salad is enough. Maybe you will have to use ondansetrone, maybe it will be good for you, maybe it will be enough to eat potato pudding. Can you eat at all? Or do you have a tumor that blocks your stomach?
Are you going through a chemotherapy? Do you want to know what to do with a kid in a coma or an autistic brother?
Or are you just somebody who noticed that there are different ways to see the world and want to read what a very smart man with a background of 50 years of scientific research thinks?

Narouz, when you say you don't trust any authorities I have to say: To me Ray Peat is an authority. I do trust him. I have trusted him with my life and I survived. I have never met anyone with only half his knowledge, his insight, his generosity and his kindness.
I do not expect this same respect and trust in him from others. If somebody tells me he loves to drink soy oil - he is very welcome to it.
I would have a problem if he told others to do so. Ray Peat doesn't tell anybody what to do or not to do. That's why I trusted him when I first heard about him.

I don't think I have to answer your question whether I believe that Ray Peats work should be open only to those who read it. Why do you think I have posted 200 times? I answer an average of 5 PMs a day and try to help people who ask me for help. Believe me, I have enough work. But that's what Ray Peat did for me. He helped out until I had the time to catch up with my reading. The first thing I asked him in an e-mail was if it might be a good idea to switch to coconut oil. You know what he answered? He didn't answer: "Of course you should, you idiot! I've been writing about it for 50 years! Go, read my list!" He wrote: "Saturated fats are generally protective."
He never gave me any list and that was at a time when he knew I was lethally sick. He sent me studies as answers to my questions. You think he did that because he is sadistic? It would have been so much easier for him to write: progesterone, niacinamide, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, aspirin ...
He didn't do that. To the effect that after two months I'd learned more about my body and the medical system than in 16 years of government education.
Do you honestly believe it's a good thing to give people 10 Dos and 100 Don'ts and think that'll do? When I answer a question I try to post the link to the appropriate article. (As I did here, always considering that somebody else might read it differently or that I might remember it wrong.) Because I do think people should read what Ray Peat writes. Because I think it's worth the trouble. Don't you?

You either assume people are not smart enough to understand him or they shouldn't be forced to go to the trouble. That's an opinion I do not wish to share.

Yes, there are people too sick to read 20 articles now. People who are scared and overwhelmed right now. So I try to help and answer questions. I think I've made that clear. I have never answered somebody in need: Go, read this article!

But the moment you just tell people what to do, you are no better than the doctors and politicians who messed up in the first place, so very convinced what they do is correct. I don't trust this behavior.

I refuse to be called elitist or occult because I think people should be able to read Peat's work if they live according to his ideas. Otherwise I would call this an occult movement. It's what the Catholic church has been doing until Luther translated the bible. It's what doctors still do: Telling people how to live or die without giving them access to the background reading. You want to change your life according to ideas you don't understand? I don't.

Ray Peat's articles are on the internet for free. He writes in English. Many of the people here speak English as their mother-tongue. I don't. Yet I managed. Ray Peat can be understood. You don't have to read an article in an hour. Take a day, take a week. Just try. Because it will tell you something else than it tells me.

As I said before: Everything is interpretation. Things are lost between what Peat means and what I understand. I am not Ray Peat. I would flatter myself if I said I was half as smart as he is. Everything I say and understand is what I interpreted. So if I made up that list you want - it would be my interpretation you'd follow and my authority you'd accept in following it. (And where would it stop? Do you read Ray Peat's new newsletters? There is new information every time.) I refuse to do that. I don't understand anything as well as Ray Peat. I can't say it as well as he does. And every summary must be a shortcoming. So if you need help - ask and somebody here will try to answer, will correct your mistakes and applaud what you do correctly or be grateful for your advice. If you want to know exactly - read Ray Peat's work.

If you understand Ray Peat's quote above as: "Ask somebody else what I mean and let them make the list I refuse to make" I think there is no better way to prove that the same words can be interpreted very differently. I understand what you want, narouz, I did understand it months ago. I just do not agree.
 

peatarian

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
313
Birdie said:
Since peatarian mentioned it...

On the newsletters, I assumed that the reason we hadn't discussed them was that it's hard to do that when you think that they are not supposed to be reproduced. Not sure if I'm explaining myself.

But it would seem that if we discussed, say the last one on phosphate, that we would be giving away the whole newsletter. I would love it if we could discuss the newsletters. We would get a lot more out of them that way.

Do you all think that would be okay?

Birdie, I'd love that, too. I really had some trouble with the chemical side of the last newsletter. I think that's alright. I'm sure, Ray Peat would like that. After all - we wouldn't place the newsletter online, right?
 
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