17 Super Snacks "Not All Ray Peat Approved"

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j.

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I share narouz sentiment a bit, in that there are Peat's statements that have no grey areas and apply to a huge amount of people. Example: it is good to eliminate completely all significant sources of polyunsaturated fats. It works for the average healthy, and even sick person. More generally, I do believe there exists an "ideal Peat diet", at least the concept, if one could be able to get all the foods they want. One would consume protein from the best sources, coconut oil, lots of great ripe fruits or juices without starch. Of course, practicalities might not allow one to have that diet, but the concept of an ideal Peat diet is good in itself just to have it as a goal to get close to.
 

charlie

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kettlebell said:
Eating in this fashion
Is not a science,
it is an art,
based on science

This needs to be engraved somewhere, awesome!!!!

Great discussion guys and gals, truly.

Maybe as a group we could try and discuss the articles more because I think, thats a most excellent idea, thank you Birdie! Imagine how much more of an understanding we would all have?
 

peatarian

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j. - narouz opened that thread in July: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=168
There are 36 pages with 362 replies.
From what I gather (I don't have time to read all replies) nobody really cares to read all the replies and nobody feels the authority to actually make that list.
Instead of putting in three months to make a list to represent a summary of food information found in Ray Peat's articles ... well you get where I'm going.
I don't say don't make a list. I think making it would be a good thing. I just think it's not smart to believe in it. If you trust that list you trust an authority you don't know. If you don't find out for yourself what's best for you and why - it will never be as good for you as it could be.

Sorry, I have to leave again tomorrow and will not be able to answer for another week.
 

peatarian

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I found this in the commentary section after one of Ray Peat's interviews and found the discussion really annoying. I think that's the kind of argumentation you get when people only know catchwords:

coconut oil messed up my thyroid gland * ray peat doesn't get that there are PUFA in everything *that guy doesn't know that sugar hurts your teeth * yes! and what's his deal with vegetables, I means - everybody knows vegetables are healthy: Is he stupid?

The only person I partly agree with is this:

http://180degreehealth.com/2011/05/ray-peat-thyroid
Jannis May 11, 2011
"How can you know that they have no historical basis? I think we know practically nothing about our dietary history. And how can you say that they have no practical basis, when his advices worked well for a lot of people, including myself? Just because it didn't work for you, doesn't mean it can't work for others.
I actually think that Peat sometimes focuses too much on his own experience and the experiences he has made with his patients (who I think were mostly women)and that he ignores scientific arguments which show that for some people his recommendations might have to be adjusted.
He doesn't give the same advice to everybody. When I wrote him the first time about 15 months ago, he told me that my diet consisting of potatos, fruits, meat, and some dairy was "excellent" and when I asked him whether I should take a thyroid supplement, he replied that I should first try to fix my problems without it.

Peat doesn't have the perfect diet or advice for everyone. I had to experiment a long time to find the best application of his theoretical work for myself. He doesn't claim to have the perfect dietary solution, but rather offers his experiences and research to the people, so that they might find something usefull for themselves.

Bruce thinks of everybody who gives dietary advices as guru, who is ignorant and stupid. Everybody who doesn't proclaim "Eat whatever the **** you want all the time" is a guru for him. So, he isn't able to see that Peat migh be everything, but not an authoritarian guru."
 

Birdie

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peatarian said:
Birdie said:
Since peatarian mentioned it...

On the newsletters, I assumed that the reason we hadn't discussed them was that it's hard to do that when you think that they are not supposed to be reproduced. Not sure if I'm explaining myself.

But it would seem that if we discussed, say the last one on phosphate, that we would be giving away the whole newsletter. I would love it if we could discuss the newsletters. We would get a lot more out of them that way.

Do you all think that would be okay?

Birdie, I'd love that, too. I really had some trouble with the chemical side of the last newsletter. I think that's alright. I'm sure, Ray Peat would like that. After all - we wouldn't place the newsletter online, right?
I asked a lawyer friend today and he said it would be fine. "Just so you don't quote 99% of the article." Sounds like we're free to make a few quotes and comments or whatever!!
 

Birdie

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Charlie said:
kettlebell said:
Eating in this fashion
Is not a science,
it is an art,
based on science

This needs to be engraved somewhere, awesome!!!!

Great discussion guys and gals, truly.

Maybe as a group we could try and discuss the articles more because I think, thats a most excellent idea, thank you Birdie! Imagine how much more of an understanding we would all have?
I think it would be a good idea to stick with the current newsletter. Each one has a lot. I have been in groups where a newsletter from Ray's site was posted in its entirety and people tried to discuss it. I don't think that worked too well. Nobody said much. But when you all focus on the latest one which is exciting since it's new, and ask questions about it, I think it's more interesting. And we wouldn't be posting the newsletter. People could quote where they had questions...

With this last one on Phosphate it can be related to other newsletters (articles) and the interviews. I listened to one last night and guess what? Inorganic phosphates were discussed. A caller thought that if she were to eat organic whole wheat pasta, then the phosphates in it would be organic and therefore okay... Peat handled it well by saying, "No.... etc." Then he explained the difference between organic phosphates and inorganic phosphates in a simple way, too.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind a discussion that could continue up to the arrival of the next newsletter. Some people might want to discuss different parts of the newsletter such as the chemistry that peatarian mentioned.
 

Birdie

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Wait... Not to say there couldn't be discussion of the articles. I'd just like to participate in a separate discussion of the latest newsletter.
 

charlie

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Birdie said:
I asked a lawyer friend today and he said it would be fine. "Just so you don't quote 99% of the article." Sounds like we're free to make a few quotes and comments or whatever!!

This is very true, Birdie. I cannot remember the exact percentage, but, I think its somewhere between 30% and 50% can be posted with no problem. I will try and see if I can dig that up.


I think its a great idea to discuss the lastest one and I think we should give it a shot!

If you like, you may start a thread in the articles section about the latest one. And I think I will "sticky" what article we are currently discussing to the top of the section.
 

Birdie

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But I should clarify that I was just giving a broad legal parameter. What we quote as far as our dear Leader, Peat, is concerned is another thing of course. I just think that it's okay to discuss the newsletters, and before I really thought about it, I'd assumed it would be wrong.
 

charlie

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Let the discussions begin! :mrgreen:
 

Birdie

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Charlie said:
Birdie said:
I asked a lawyer friend today and he said it would be fine. "Just so you don't quote 99% of the article." Sounds like we're free to make a few quotes and comments or whatever!!

This is very true, Birdie. I cannot remember the exact percentage, but, I think its somewhere between 30% and 50% can be posted with no problem. I will try and see if I can dig that up.


I think its a great idea to discuss the lastest one and I think we should give it a shot!

If you like, you may start a thread in the articles section about the latest one. And I think I will "sticky" what article we are currently discussing to the top of the section.
Okay, if you think that's the best way. I tend to think of the Articles section as a reference spot. Maybe there could be a notice there pointing to the discussion of the latest Newsletter. I know the Articles are Newsletters, but I'm not sure a newbie would... ???

I think we'd get more discussion if we put the discussion in a spot people visit frequently... :?
 

charlie

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Birdie said:
Charlie said:
Birdie said:
I asked a lawyer friend today and he said it would be fine. "Just so you don't quote 99% of the article." Sounds like we're free to make a few quotes and comments or whatever!!

This is very true, Birdie. I cannot remember the exact percentage, but, I think its somewhere between 30% and 50% can be posted with no problem. I will try and see if I can dig that up.


I think its a great idea to discuss the lastest one and I think we should give it a shot!

If you like, you may start a thread in the articles section about the latest one. And I think I will "sticky" what article we are currently discussing to the top of the section.
Okay, if you think that's the best way. I tend to think of the Articles section as a reference spot. Maybe there could be a notice there pointing to the discussion of the latest Newsletter. I know the Articles are Newsletters, but I'm not sure a newbie would... ???

I think we'd get more discussion if we put the discussion in a spot people visit frequently... :?

I was thinking the same thing that maybe we should put the discussion somewhere else. I was even thinking of making its own little section. How about for now, we place it under the Ray Peat General discussion section? And then figure it out from there.
 

nutritionkate

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Hi all, maybe not worth me replying because this thread has moved on a fair bit from the original topic. But, as the author of that blog, just wanted to point out that my aim is to bring some of Peat's general concepts to the general public, average "health nuts" (still stuck in anti-fructose mania, consuming nuts, vegetables, etc) and to my clients. Perhaps in an environment such as this it is easy for one to forget that the majority of people out there have never HEARD of Peat, let alone are familiar with the intricacies of his writings and recommendations. I have no qualms recommending foods that are not 100% Peat-approved. I think that you maybe need to lighten up a bit if you think that ever morsel that touches your lips must be 100% Peat-approved. I will not always be a strict with my clients as I am with my own diet (which, by the way, is not that strict - I also like to eat for pleasure!) and instilling general principles such as limiting PUFA as much as possible, balancing blood sugar, reducing and balancing inflammatory AA's, consuming enough simple CHOs, etc can go a long way towards improving the health of many individuals. How far you would like to take it or how strict you would like to be is up to you.

I also work with many eating disordered individuals and I firmly believe that dietary rigidity is NOT helpful for these people - telling them that they must exist on just OJ/milk/cheese/gelatin/liver/shellfish/eggs/coconut oil/sugar is not a good idea. If you think that foods such as beetroot, greek yoghurt, sea salt, coconut or macadamia nuts are going to kill you, then perhaps you need to loosen up a little... no offense intended.

I am beginning to think that joining this forum was perhaps not a good idea.

Kate
 
J

j.

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I am beginning to think that joining this forum was perhaps not a good idea.

oh my god, what a drama queen. your post was moved from one section to another to avoid confusion, that's all. nobody is saying you or someone else should eat pure Peat all the time.
 

narouz

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peatarian said:
Dear narouz,

however much you write, I read the same: You want to have rules about what's good and what's not.

If you want it that simple: milk, orange juice, carrots, eggs in coconut oil, liver (with coke or coffee) and oysters once a week, add salt and sugar and gelatine. Leave everything else out and you'll be fine.

You can live from that. You'll have all the nutrients.
How much of it should you eat? Is there something missing? Are there situations in which you shouldn't eat eggs? Or drink orange juice.
I don't know. Are you a pregnant woman or an eight year old child or a 200 pounds, 80 year old man?
Do you have cancer? Have you been diagnosed with MS? Or are you just overweight and feeling cold all the time or are you trying to have a baby and can't?
Maybe you should use antibiotics, maybe carrot salad is enough. Maybe you will have to use ondansetrone, maybe it will be good for you, maybe it will be enough to eat potato pudding. Can you eat at all? Or do you have a tumor that blocks your stomach?
Are you going through a chemotherapy? Do you want to know what to do with a kid in a coma or an autistic brother?
Or are you just somebody who noticed that there are different ways to see the world and want to read what a very smart man with a background of 50 years of scientific research thinks?

Narouz, when you say you don't trust any authorities I have to say: To me Ray Peat is an authority. I do trust him. I have trusted him with my life and I survived. I have never met anyone with only half his knowledge, his insight, his generosity and his kindness.
I do not expect this same respect and trust in him from others. If somebody tells me he loves to drink soy oil - he is very welcome to it.
I would have a problem if he told others to do so. Ray Peat doesn't tell anybody what to do or not to do. That's why I trusted him when I first heard about him.

I don't think I have to answer your question whether I believe that Ray Peats work should be open only to those who read it. Why do you think I have posted 200 times? I answer an average of 5 PMs a day and try to help people who ask me for help. Believe me, I have enough work. But that's what Ray Peat did for me. He helped out until I had the time to catch up with my reading. The first thing I asked him in an e-mail was if it might be a good idea to switch to coconut oil. You know what he answered? He didn't answer: "Of course you should, you idiot! I've been writing about it for 50 years! Go, read my list!" He wrote: "Saturated fats are generally protective."
He never gave me any list and that was at a time when he knew I was lethally sick. He sent me studies as answers to my questions. You think he did that because he is sadistic? It would have been so much easier for him to write: progesterone, niacinamide, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, aspirin ...
He didn't do that. To the effect that after two months I'd learned more about my body and the medical system than in 16 years of government education.
Do you honestly believe it's a good thing to give people 10 Dos and 100 Don'ts and think that'll do? When I answer a question I try to post the link to the appropriate article. (As I did here, always considering that somebody else might read it differently or that I might remember it wrong.) Because I do think people should read what Ray Peat writes. Because I think it's worth the trouble. Don't you?

You either assume people are not smart enough to understand him or they shouldn't be forced to go to the trouble. That's an opinion I do not wish to share.

Yes, there are people too sick to read 20 articles now. People who are scared and overwhelmed right now. So I try to help and answer questions. I think I've made that clear. I have never answered somebody in need: Go, read this article!

But the moment you just tell people what to do, you are no better than the doctors and politicians who messed up in the first place, so very convinced what they do is correct. I don't trust this behavior.

I refuse to be called elitist or occult because I think people should be able to read Peat's work if they live according to his ideas. Otherwise I would call this an occult movement. It's what the Catholic church has been doing until Luther translated the bible. It's what doctors still do: Telling people how to live or die without giving them access to the background reading. You want to change your life according to ideas you don't understand? I don't.

Ray Peat's articles are on the internet for free. He writes in English. Many of the people here speak English as their mother-tongue. I don't. Yet I managed. Ray Peat can be understood. You don't have to read an article in an hour. Take a day, take a week. Just try. Because it will tell you something else than it tells me.

As I said before: Everything is interpretation. Things are lost between what Peat means and what I understand. I am not Ray Peat. I would flatter myself if I said I was half as smart as he is. Everything I say and understand is what I interpreted. So if I made up that list you want - it would be my interpretation you'd follow and my authority you'd accept in following it. (And where would it stop? Do you read Ray Peat's new newsletters? There is new information every time.) I refuse to do that. I don't understand anything as well as Ray Peat. I can't say it as well as he does. And every summary must be a shortcoming. So if you need help - ask and somebody here will try to answer, will correct your mistakes and applaud what you do correctly or be grateful for your advice. If you want to know exactly - read Ray Peat's work.

If you understand Ray Peat's quote above as: "Ask somebody else what I mean and let them make the list I refuse to make" I think there is no better way to prove that the same words can be interpreted very differently. I understand what you want, narouz, I did understand it months ago. I just do not agree.

peatarian-
Thank you for such a full response!
I haven't quite got the hang of making sure I click "subscribe this thread" or whatever it is,
so I kinda forgot about this thread for a bit. :oops:

I've gotta give what you say, so passionately, a powerful think!
If I sleep on it tonight with my new red light panel on my head,
I'm sure some answers will form spontaneously and be ready in the morning.
(Last night I put that LED panel over my thyroid and heart area
and...my heart began to beat more energetically--so why not my brain?!)

You know I think the world of you.
Ironically, one reason is because you are a bit of an authority in PeatWorld. :eek:
It is not a dirty word to me.
I mean it in a most respectful and grateful way. Truly.

And as with most authorities I respect and thank,
I also like to ask them questions sometimes.
So I hope you don't mind my impertinence too much. :)
More anon!
 

Birdie

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I think she'll be back tomorrow. Hooray.
 

narouz

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j. said:
I am beginning to think that joining this forum was perhaps not a good idea.

oh my god, what a drama queen. your post was moved from one section to another to avoid confusion, that's all. nobody is saying you or someone else should eat pure Peat all the time.

I thought I was The Drama Queen! :cry:
Can I be The Drama King? :roll:
 

peatarian

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nutritionkate said:
Hi all, maybe not worth me replying because this thread has moved on a fair bit from the original topic. But, as the author of that blog, just wanted to point out that my aim is to bring some of Peat's general concepts to the general public, average "health nuts" (still stuck in anti-fructose mania, consuming nuts, vegetables, etc) and to my clients. Perhaps in an environment such as this it is easy for one to forget that the majority of people out there have never HEARD of Peat, let alone are familiar with the intricacies of his writings and recommendations. I have no qualms recommending foods that are not 100% Peat-approved. I think that you maybe need to lighten up a bit if you think that ever morsel that touches your lips must be 100% Peat-approved. I will not always be a strict with my clients as I am with my own diet (which, by the way, is not that strict - I also like to eat for pleasure!) and instilling general principles such as limiting PUFA as much as possible, balancing blood sugar, reducing and balancing inflammatory AA's, consuming enough simple CHOs, etc can go a long way towards improving the health of many individuals. How far you would like to take it or how strict you would like to be is up to you.

I also work with many eating disordered individuals and I firmly believe that dietary rigidity is NOT helpful for these people - telling them that they must exist on just OJ/milk/cheese/gelatin/liver/shellfish/eggs/coconut oil/sugar is not a good idea. If you think that foods such as beetroot, greek yoghurt, sea salt, coconut or macadamia nuts are going to kill you, then perhaps you need to loosen up a little... no offense intended.

I am beginning to think that joining this forum was perhaps not a good idea.

Kate

Kate, I couldn't agree with you more: Telling people what to eat is not a good idea. I think if people learn how food effects their body and mind, they will be able to find out for themselves which diet works. But - sorry - if you do decide to tell them what to eat, you might as well tell them the right things. They are going to stray off course anyway. So if you are not a 100% Peat and they are not a 100% Kate -- you get a lot of PUFA. Btw - nobody said anything against beetroot or macadamia nuts, or did we?
 

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