Belly Bloat From Bad To Worse On A Peat Diet

[Rayser]

If you already suffer under bacterial overgrowth, milk can cause a problem. You'd notice that soon.
In those cases Ray Peat recommends to try different brands of milk because they have different kinds of bacteria, depending on what the cows ate. And to start with very little milk and increase it slowly.

 

[Radio]

If you swim in chlorinated water it can be a very good idea to supplement with some iodine (like kelp tablets). Because chlorine competes with iodine and can make you hypothyroid.
How's the bloat going?

 

[Edle]

If you swim in chlorinated water it can be a very good idea to supplement with some iodine (like kelp tablets). Because chlorine competes with iodine and can make you hypothyroid.
How's the bloat going?

Thanks for the kelp tip Radio!

As for the bloating: I think it is getting slowly worse. Very frustrating.

I tried eliminating diary and starch earlier (at different times). No change.
This summer I ate much less fruit (almost only OJ, apple sauce and berries) and more local new potatoes. No change.
I have started daily abdominal massage also. Feels like a good thing, but no reduction in bloating.
I was only in chlorinated pools a couple of times this summer (otherwise open water). No change.
Sulfur - tried - felt worse.
Cascara tried - got diarrhea, even by a tiny dose.

I am at a point where I am tempted to do two days of GAPS intro, but with much more carbs than my disastrous attempt in 2011.

 

[HDD]

Edle,

Did you try juicing potatoes and cooking the juice? Rayser had stated she had bloated belly and this took care of it.

 

[messtafarian]

I read through this whole thread and I'm not sure if you mention -- are you bloated, or constipated? Are you going potty regularly and is that working okay?

 

[4peatssake]

If you swim in chlorinated water it can be a very good idea to supplement with some iodine (like kelp tablets). Because chlorine competes with iodine and can make you hypothyroid.
How's the bloat going?

Ray Peat does not recommend iodine or kelp to treat hypothyroidism.

Kelp and other sources of excess iodine can suppress the thyroid, so they definitely shouldn't be used to treat hypothyroidism.

 

[Edle]

If you swim in chlorinated water it can be a very good idea to supplement with some iodine (like kelp tablets). Because chlorine competes with iodine and can make you hypothyroid.
How's the bloat going?

Ray Peat does not recommend iodine or kelp to treat hypothyroidism.

Kelp and other sources of excess iodine can suppress the thyroid, so they definitely shouldn't be used to treat hypothyroidism.

Well, Peat says excess iodine can suppress the thyroid, but also that not enough is a problem. In a brief email to me about my thyroid issues (is part of the Danny Roddy email compilation) he said that:

"In the case of the thyroid antibodies, it seems to be chronic exposure to high TSH (usually combined with too much or too little iodine or selenium, and polyunsaturated fatty acids) that injures the gland."

Anyway, I tested (urinary) very low on iodine just as my thyroid problems started a bit over two years ago. I tested again (in another lab) four weeks later, and the results were normal. The weeks before the first test I had been in a chlorinated pool regularly, before the second test I had not been in a chlorinated pool the three weeks prior. I did not think of any connection then, but maybe there was one.

I read through this whole thread and I'm not sure if you mention -- are you bloated, or constipated? Are you going potty regularly and is that working okay?

I am not constipated. With all the ripe tropical fruit I am eating on this diet, I think that would be near impossible.

Edle,

Did you try juicing potatoes and cooking the juice? Rayser had stated she had bloated belly and this took care of it.

Haagendazendiane - thanks. This is one of the few things I have not tried. I guess I should just go and look for a centrifugal juicer and do it.

If I go with potato starch as my only protein for 2-3 days as a test, my big question is: what can I eat to get enough carbs? If I am sedentary, I can manage with 150 grams of carbohydrate per day, but that is the very minimum. I can under no circumstance go on a lower carb diet - this is what led to my thyroid crash in the first place.

The potato juice (without the starch), is first and foremost a high quality protein as far as I understand.

Maybe I can just go with Coke. There is table sugar Coke (not HFCS) in glass bottles where I live, but I would have to take equivalent of 4 cans at least. Don´t know if I would feel comfortable.

 

[j.]

There is table sugar Coke (not HFCS) in glass bottles where I live, but I would have to take equivalent of 4 cans at least.

Couldn't you just leave some for the next day?

 

[Jenn]

Why not eat the whole potato and not worry about getting enough carbs?

 

[Bluebell]

Hi Edle! :)

I just read the whole thread, what a puzzle, I hope we can eventually get to the bottom of this.

Something I wondered is, whether you are taking enough thyroid - how are your temps/pulse/pressure? Low thyroid can make you backed up leading to bloating. Also it can lead to fluid accumulation in the stomach. Just an idea anyway.

 

[4peatssake]

Ray Peat does not recommend iodine or kelp to treat hypothyroidism.

Kelp and other sources of excess iodine can suppress the thyroid, so they definitely shouldn't be used to treat hypothyroidism.

Well, Peat says excess iodine can suppress the thyroid, but also that not enough is a problem. In a brief email to me about my thyroid issues (is part of the Danny Roddy email compilation) he said that:

"In the case of the thyroid antibodies, it seems to be chronic exposure to high TSH (usually combined with too much or too little iodine or selenium, and polyunsaturated fatty acids) that injures the gland."

Anyway, I tested (urinary) very low on iodine just as my thyroid problems started a bit over two years ago. I tested again (in another lab) four weeks later, and the results were normal. The weeks before the first test I had been in a chlorinated pool regularly, before the second test I had not been in a chlorinated pool the three weeks prior. I did not think of any connection then, but maybe there was one.

I didn't mean to suggest that iodine deficiency (although rare) is not a problem or question the possible correlation between iodine and chlorine.

My point was simply that he does not recommend taking iodine as a solution for thyroid problems. I've not known him to recommend it to anyone - even in his comment to you about having too little due to chronic exposure to high TSH.

One of his concerns is the difficulty in determining an excess of iodine.

“It’s easy to recognize a chronic iodine deficiency, because it causes the thyroid gland to enlarge. Goiters can be caused in various ways, for example by being exposed to various goitrogens, including excess iodine, or by excessive estrogen and deficient progesterone, as well as by an iodine deficiency.

“However, a chronic excess of iodine is harder to recognize, because it can produce a variety of degenerative changes. Measurement of the average daily iodine intake or excretion in the urine would be needed to confirm an excess. High iodine intake can suppress TSH, and since high TSH is pro-inflammatory, the iodine can have some protective anti-inflammatory actions, but in the long run, the thyroid suppression becomes a problem.”

He's also concerned because it can cause thyroid problems.

" Eating seaweed or other foods or supplements containing iodine can cause both hypothyroidism and thyroiditis. The iodate sometimes used as an oxidizing agent in breads have probably contributed to thyroid disease in the industrial countries."

 

[Mittir]

I have seen one study that showed increase in Autoimmune Thyroiditis after iodized salt was introduced
in that population.IIRC it was an Indian study. There is another study that showed lowering iodine intake
( amount smaller than RDA) lowered thyroid antibodies. Sorry i don't have link to these two studies.
I did a quick search and found this study showing 250 mcg causing thyroid issues in some.
http://www.eje-online.org/content/139/1/23.full.pdf
Ratio of selenium and iodine is a deciding factor how excess iodine or selenium will affect our body.
Safe route is getting adequate iodine from food, not too much or not too little.
If someone is taking T4 or Mix of T4+T3 they really don't need much iodine.
T4 already comes with iodine attached to it.

 

[Gabriel]

These may be the studies you're looking for Mittir.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16807415
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17504896

Best,
Gabriel

 

[Edle]

Hi Edle! :)

I just read the whole thread, what a puzzle, I hope we can eventually get to the bottom of this.

Something I wondered is, whether you are taking enough thyroid - how are your temps/pulse/pressure? Low thyroid can make you backed up leading to bloating. Also it can lead to fluid accumulation in the stomach. Just an idea anyway.

Hi Bluebell, thank you

Well, I have had low T3, and some thyroid symptoms (after a "thyroid crash" on GAPS induction).

I started taking desiccated thyroid 6 months after my thyroid crash (diet and "lifestyle" alone did not take care of things).
While I had some improvements on desiccated thyroid, my bloating got worse in the same period :-/

I have been cutting down on thyroid now, from 2 grains which I was on for about 13 months, (after building up slowly) to 1/8 grains which I am at now. I just did not seem to do well on full thyroid dose anymore. And my T3 was not even high - it was more on the low end still.

My hormone levels are still not optimal, but I think a big part of it is intestinal in origin.

 

[Edle]

Why not eat the whole potato and not worry about getting enough carbs?

Thanks Jenn, but I think the point would be to avoid the potatoe starch and just go for the (high quality) protein.

 

[Edle]

There is table sugar Coke (not HFCS) in glass bottles where I live, but I would have to take equivalent of 4 cans at least.

Couldn't you just leave some for the next day?

Thanks j, but I don´t understand your point.

You mean leave my "carb quote" for the next day?

Getting Coke where I live is not problem. It tastes good (water filtering seem to be okay, and it is on glass bottles) and it is made with table sugar.

 

[Edle]

So I spent the $200 on a centrifugal juicer.
Just juiced the first batch of potatoes now. Will fry it in coconut juice after it has set.
I will try this for a month or so and see if it makes any difference.

 

[natedawggh]

Hi Eddie,

What a saga. I hope you're finding some solutions. If not, what strikes me is no mention of seeing a Dr. (Did I miss that?) If your stomach is as distended as you made it sound, that would be the first place to go. Secondly, I hope you're still not eating that much protien, it is waaaayyy too much for someone your size. I'm 6 foot 6 and 253 lbs and I only need about 50-100 g of protein a day. Less if i get enough gelatin. Excess protein is known to cause liver enlargement and that's what your condition sounds like. Also, protein is not what builds muscle, carbs build muscle. Protein is for connective tissue and hormone synthesis, stuff like that, and it sounds like you're getting enough carbs.

Also, an indicator if it was bacteria would be stomach ache/pain and or sinus/allergy issues. If you're not having that its not bacteria and fluids are only a problem if you consume too much but it sounds like you're drinking to thirst which is totally the way to do it. Also, the body maintains a tight lid on PH balance and its kind of a myth that you can mess it up somehow without ending up at the hospital. You'd sooner run out of calcium. If I had to bet I'd say you're getting way too much protien.

 

[Swandattur]

Maybe this has already been mentioned here but in case it hasn't what about this with a cause of hypothyroidism. http://www.emedicinehealth.com/ascites/page2_em.htm Sorry if his is way off base.

 

[Edle]

Hi Eddie,

What a saga. I hope you're finding some solutions. If not, what strikes me is no mention of seeing a Dr. (Did I miss that?) If your stomach is as distended as you made it sound, that would be the first place to go. Secondly, I hope you're still not eating that much protien, it is waaaayyy too much for someone your size. I'm 6 foot 6 and 253 lbs and I only need about 50-100 g of protein a day. Less if i get enough gelatin. Excess protein is known to cause liver enlargement and that's what your condition sounds like. Also, protein is not what builds muscle, carbs build muscle. Protein is for connective tissue and hormone synthesis, stuff like that, and it sounds like you're getting enough carbs.

Also, an indicator if it was bacteria would be stomach ache/pain and or sinus/allergy issues. If you're not having that its not bacteria and fluids are only a problem if you consume too much but it sounds like you're drinking to thirst which is totally the way to do it. Also, the body maintains a tight lid on PH balance and its kind of a myth that you can mess it up somehow without ending up at the hospital. You'd sooner run out of calcium. If I had to bet I'd say you're getting way too much protien.

Hi natedawggh - apart from butchering my name ;-), thank you very much for your feedback!!!

I have actually cut back on protein a bit in the last 3 months or so. Not counted grams as much, but I drink less milk and eat less (cottage) cheese. I have been worried that I am not getting enough protein now, but I suppose it is enough. It has not made any difference to the bloating though.

I mostly lost faith in conventional doctors during the period leading up to my hypothyroid symptoms. But yes, I have seen a number of doctors. I have had ultrasound of my liver and a full liver panel twice, but the bloating has gotten worse since I last did it, so maybe I should do the liver ultrasound again. I take different blood tests regularly, mostly thyroid tests though, but I have done a few full panels. On the positive side my Anti-TG is now normal (were elevated, but I think this was related more to estrogen than thyroid). I am mostly off the desiccated thyroid (take up to 1/4 grain a day) and while my T3 is low, it is not below lab range as before. I have done the Metametrix GI Effects - it only showed low levels of good bacteria. No bad bacteria or pathogens. But again, this was a year and a half ago when I was just starting to eat Peat like, and the bloating has gotten worse since.

I actually do have allergy symptoms, and they have gotten worse in the last few months. I was not sure if it was allergy or cold, but since I have almost had chronic low grade respiratory issues for the last six months, I saw a doctor yesterday, and her guess was that I had a combination of allergy and cold. She recommended anti-histamine. I have never tried it before, but I actually took one yesterday and today. It actually helped a bit. Not magical, but my "cold" symptoms, which I suppose was allergy symptoms (ear pain, stuffy nose, stuffy head in general) were lessened. I still have a slight chest cold, so I guess it was a combination.

So you are saying that the allergy could indicate some kind of bacteria? Interesting. How can I try to diagnose and subsequently treat that further?