does it need to be the whole tongue or what portion of the tongue resting on the roof of the mouth? the halfway point of the tongue starting from the tip back? seems impossible to have the entire tongue on the roof of the mouth?
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Why your face has almost nothing to do with "Genetics" and why you SHOULD be Mewing AND Chewing
- Thread starter JamesGatz
- Start date
does it need to be the whole tongue or what portion of the tongue resting on the roof of the mouth? the halfway point of the tongue starting from the tip back? seems impossible to have the entire tongue on the roof of the mouth?
It should be as much of the tongue as you can fit - front, middle, back and side with a suction without it feeling uncomfortable - the suction should feel like a light but firm enough force that you can hold for longer periods of time (it shouldn't feel like you're forcing/pushing pressure - your tongue gets very easily tired this way)
as your jaws are pushed more forward - more space is available at the upper palate for the tongue to attach to - making it easier for the tongue to apply more force and sit here at rest - it is usually impossible to fit the entire tongue on the roof of the mouth when first starting out because in order to do this - your jaws have to be VERY forward and wide to accomodate this much space - this is the goal of mewing - to continually increae space for the tongue to sit here at rest and continue to work for more space and forward growth in the jaws
He just lost facial fat and grew up .. you can see he has the jaw structure in the before picture
Pushing the jaws forward gives this effect -
Pushing the jaws forward gives the appearance of "losing facial fat" because the skin is sagging more in the absence of more bone support - when the jaws are pushed forward the appearance of wrinkles/"face fat" diminish - all of these sagging skin issues in the face are diminished when the bones are pushed forward to support the skin.
His jaw shape is there in the before picture ... but the definition and size is not there - the definition and size only comes from growth which he did to bring in out - his jaws have become wider, less downward facing - his eyes are more almond-shaped - better under-eye support from upper jaw growth - getting rid of the eye bags and with more defined upper eyelid exposure
Rinse & rePeat
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As most of us know - the upper and lower jaws of those living in Western Civilization have continously declined over time.
Looking at indigenous people's on traditional diets - their jaws seem to be FAR wider and longer than those living in Western Civilization across the board - many theorize that their way of eating helps develop these strong, large jaws (strongly focused on chewing especially compared to the Western diets where foods are very soft and "easy" on the teeth)
Examples:
View attachment 28553
A few relevant links:
Before Agriculture, Human Jaws Were a Perfect Fit for Human Teeth
The emergence of agricultural practices initiated major changes to the jaw structure of ancient humans, leading to dental problems we still experiencewww.smithsonianmag.com
Human jaw shrinkage - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
How Our Ancestors Formed Full Faces and Straight Teeth
This treatment is an early prevention, interceptive, non-extraction, and non-surgical orthodontic treatment dealing with correct growth of the face and jaws.www.ericdavisdental.com
Why Cavemen Needed No Braces
Crooked teeth are a modern phenomenon and a telltale symptom of an underlying epidemic.stanfordpress.typepad.com
Why should you care about the size of your jaws ?
View attachment 28555
A jaw without forward growth with (either an underdeveloped maxilla or mandible or both) will have the jaws interefering with the extremely important tasks of breathing and eating.
A person with a forward upperjaw has a MUCH easier time breathing through the nose (larger nasal passage ways) than someone without one with all things being equal causing them to NOT have to mouth-breathe - creating a more ideal metabolic environment
A person with a forward lower jaw has a MUCH easier time eating food - especially without choking than someone without a forward lower jaw - the food ways are larger and not blocked by the lower jaw
Notice for the image I posted below - the people on the right have STRAIGHT jaws - when your jaws are pushed forward - they become straighter - when they are NOT straight - they are facing DOWNWARD - blocking air and food ways to some extent - ruining your posture because you have to adjust your neck (lean your neck forward to breath freely)
View attachment 28556
Luckily the length and the width of the upper and lower jaws don't seem to be related to genetics and seem to be something more:
Most of us are familiar with mewing (if you are not I will link to a thread that is a very good introduction) - the act of flattening out the tongue over the roof of the mouth to expand the width and length of the upper jaw over time - overtime this pushes the upper jaw forward and expands the width of the upper jaws - Making it easier for you to BREATHE and EAT overtime -
There is one problem with Mewing - it focuses attention on the UPPER jaw MAINLY - neglecting attention to the LOWER jaw - some people claim that expanding the upper jaw "automatically" forces the lower jaw to adjust - I personally do not think the lower jaw adjusts that much WITHOUT direct attention to it - if this was the case I think mostly everyone that had a large upper jaw would have a large lower jaw as well - this doesn't seem to be the case -
it seems that most people have one or the other (and their other jaw ends up as underdeveloped as a result)
so what do people look like when they have a stronger upper jaw but an UNDERDEVELOPED lower jaw (mewing [tongue resting at the roof of the mouth] alone with little to no attention to the lower jaw) ?
View attachment 28559View attachment 28561
For people who don't mew (and KEEP their tongue resting at the bottom of the mouth to DEVELOP a lower jaw with little to NO attention to the upper jaw) - their faces develop as follows
View attachment 28560
This is one of the best cases scenario for each - most people don't develop like this WITHOUT a conscious effort
For people who have BOTH (extremely rare in western civilization) they develop as follows:
View attachment 28564View attachment 28565
Many people claim that Mewing "only works" if you are young and your bones are "malleable" - It is NO secret that looks tend to DECLINE as "people get older" - I strongly believe that the jaws are subject to change in width and in length for your ENTIRE LIFE - Without proper tongue posture for your entire life - your looks will decline over-time as with most people - causing you to have a HARDER TIME breathing and eating which subsequently will have a negative impact on your metabolic rate if you are mouth-breathing.
It is DIFFICULT to have a DEVELOPED upper and lower jaw - because using your tongue at rest to either NEGLECTS attention to the other jaw - MEWING is seen as beneficial because developing the upper jaw (for breathing) is probably a little bit more important to developing the lower jaw (for eating) if one had to choose between the two
The point of the thread is to work on having BOTH as BOTH are extremely important not only from a metabolic perspective but for surviving/thriving in general
Notice how for the lower jaw men their eyes look like they are melting (negative canthal tilt) the eyes for the upper jaw people look at a positive angle (positive canthal tilt) - the shape of the eys follow the upper jaw -1) suction your posterior tongue onto the soft palate
the larger and more forward your upper jaw - the more positive canthal tilt it will have and vice-versa for an UNDERDEVELOPED upper jaw
View attachment 28562
Tongue posture does not just affect your BREATHING and EATING - it affects the ENTIRE way your face develops for the rest of your life - the size of your nose (more forward growth pushes the nose to become bigger) - the shape of your eyes AND the size of your skull (expanding the jaws will expand the size of your skull)
The purpose of this thread is to explore the benefits for mewing correctly and Mewing AND Chewing -
For Mewing correctly and for results in the lower jaw as well (strongly recommend for lower jaw - check-out what the @TheSir posted - very good gem for lower jaw growth while mewing ) :
Does Mewing (Orthotropics) Work?
there is, beeswax pellets, theres organic ones on amazon and they seem similar shaped to the mastic gum pellets they have policosanols too some mainstream gums are better than the typical 5 gum, but even the "gum base" ingredient alone, actually can have 75 different ingredients, and is usually...raypeatforum.com
Some of the relevant quotes for mandible (lower jaw) length and growth while mewing:
"
2) drive your occiput upwards and tuck your chin in until these movements and the tongue suction become one.
3) lower your mandible (experiment with backwardly vs forwardly descending vector), until you feel your anterior neck muscles engage. Seek to habitually maintain this engagement, especially during inhalation. Note how your jaw comes to be sustained at an equilibrium of forces between the tongue and the neck muscles.
(4 optional) study the dynamic between lowering the mandible and elevating the coccyx. Both being the ultimate end points of the spine, posture-wise they function as complementary opposites.
"
Mewing gives attention to the UPPER JAW - expanding the width and length of the upper jaw - I recommend reading the above quote for the lower jaw while mewing. - It is Important to ensure you are Mewing correctly for lower jaw length
- while CHEWING gives attention to the Width and mass of Lower Jaw - allowing it to grow larger over time and to match the width and mass gains made for the maxilla.
Having proper tongue posture from mewing ensures you work and maintain a large and forward upper jaw - making it easier to breathe through your nose WHILE also lengthening the mandible as long as you are mewing correctly
Chewing and "working" the lower jaw ensures that your lower jaw expands in width and mass as well - mewing correctly however is EXTREMELY RELEVANT to the lengthening of the lower jaw however and it's adjustments to the skull
This is why I strongly believe for your entire life MEWING AND CHEWING should be combined to ensure that your jaws grow longer/bigger and also MAINTAIN that size - if you do NOTHING to maintain the sizes of your jaws they will inevitably get smaller as they do with mostly everyone you see on the internet -
View attachment 28566
Celebrities aging "badly" and celebrities aging "well" - what's the difference ? 10 times out of 10 - the celebrities that aged WELL have maintained or even INCREASED the size of their upper and lower jaws from proper tongue posture - the celebrities that aged BADLY all have decreased size of their lower and upper jaws - making their wrinkles more prominent in the absence of bone support
Good Introduction to mewing for those are not familiar:
If you have been mewing with no results you should make sure you are mewing CORRECTLY - I would strongly recommend watching this video on suction-based mewing (creating an intra-oral vaccuum):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxYcPpOB_i8
I bought some natural gum a couple of months ago to try out the chewing idea and boy was my jaw sore after an hour or two of it. I just want to compliment you on how well you put this thread together. I love lots of pics and the personal conversation to go with studies. Well done Sir!
It’s good to know about correct posture, it will slow down the narrowing and elongation of the face that people get as they age however it’s not going to do a whole lot beyond that. I’d say absolutely go ahead and do it but don’t have high expectations unless you’re under 12. I found about it earlier than most people who discover it around 19-24 but my situation was too severe already. And it made absolutely zero difference. Only thing it does is help keep teeth in place once you’ve had braces. Due to allergic rhinitis, which caused my mouth breathing and recessed face in the first place, I had to get surgery so I could breathe. Had to mouth breathe for 2 months and my front teeth started regressing back to their pre braces state. Mewing keeps that from happening but that’s as far as it goes .
Just look at the pictures you posted
Especially the middle one with the woman. Do you really think the woman on the left has any chance to develop into the one on the right by mewing?
Sorry but that’s simply not realistic. At most shed get some insignificant 0.1 mm gains. The bones are not just displaced and misaligned, there’s an actual difference in the bone mass, this person has bone deficiency.
Just look at the pictures you posted
Especially the middle one with the woman. Do you really think the woman on the left has any chance to develop into the one on the right by mewing?
Sorry but that’s simply not realistic. At most shed get some insignificant 0.1 mm gains. The bones are not just displaced and misaligned, there’s an actual difference in the bone mass, this person has bone deficiency.
I think the right amount of vitamin d, k and calcium is very important and being young is ... well ... fortunate.
Don't see much harm in doing it tho.
What i still don't understand from this thread, is if basic chewing helps the lower jaw (?) and wether or not tongue chewing or suction is better for the upper jaw.
No problem!
The issue with what you are saying is that you treat forward growth and bone mass as 2 separate things
Look at the gif I posted - when your jaw is downward-grown it makes your jaws look A LOT smaller than they are - in length and in width - it is not so much that the women has a tiny small jaw that will always be tiny...
Her jaws look that way because they are downward grown ... the maxilla must be expanded in width to be pushed forward - that is why in the pictures on the right ALL of those people have correct posture and bone mass ... these things are all linked and not separate entities.
Why do you think all the people on the left have bad posture ? Do you really think that is coincidence ? They have to lean their neck forward to breathe ruining their posture ... This is all linked - the maxilla must be expanded in width to be pushed forward and WHEN IT IS PUSHED FORWARD - it brings out the definition and pulls along the mass more forward which makes it seeable to other people.
Her bones are there - they are just downward-grown and hiding underneath all the skin
You seem to want to justify to yourself that there is no hope and that to give up because this position is hard to recover from - I am not saying it is easy but I am saying that -
THE JAWS HAVE TO COME OUT
It is not even just an issue with just looks, itis an issue with posture, breathing, etc. You cannot try to justify to yourself that there is no hope ... you must fight from this position and with suction mewing over-time the Upper Jaws WILL RESPOND to this firm, constant pressure as long as you are fighting for space
Basic chewing helps with lower jaw bone mass (making it wider) but to lengthen the lower jaw and to bring it further out so it doesn't affect eating please look at this High-IQ post made by another user in the mewing thread ... very valuable information here for using mewing for lower jaw length growth and not just mass
Does Mewing (Orthotropics) Work?
there is, beeswax pellets, theres organic ones on amazon and they seem similar shaped to the mastic gum pellets they have policosanols too some mainstream gums are better than the typical 5 gum, but even the "gum base" ingredient alone, actually can have 75 different ingredients, and is usually...
Rinse & rePeat
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I have ALWAYS kept my WHOLE tongue on the top of my mouth, my whole life. I never even heard of "mewing" until this past year. After learning about it I tried to keep my tongue just hanging in my mouth or let it relax and it is just weird. Does yours naturally rest on your bottom teeth? Why call it "mewing" anyway? What a strang name for a tongue position.
The practice is named after Dr. Mike Mew, a British orthodontis. He is against the capitalistic and flawed system in how we fix jaws/teeth. He went trough tons of heat for it by his collegues ... i mean ofcourse ... after all it would destroy their fancy living ...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyCEY3BvxRg
One of the comments says it pretty well:
"This guy sounds so frustrated. I feel ya. Science has been bastardized and is severely tainted."
it doesnt seem possible to do, at a certain point the tongue has to stick downwards
i think only half of my tongue sticks to the top of the mouth naturally
my upper mouth (besides the teeth) is covered with the tongue, but the entire tongue is not on the upper mouth
maybe i have a big tongue like a dog?
Rinse & rePeat
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Ha! Ha! I guess because my jaw grew with my tongue in that position my whole life it is hard to relax my tongue. My teeth are most comfortable tightly against the top and bottom too. I had a problem with grinding my teeth as a child and through my 20's, so clenching my teeth is most comfortable for me, which leaves, nowhere for my tongue to go, but at the top of my mouth.
steel_reserve
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I don't know what's serotonin lowering feels like. But my tongue _wanted_ to be in that position. All I had to do was lift it up and it did the rest.
Rinse & rePeat
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I don't know why your response made me laugh. It is something I would say. I can't necessarily tell a lot of why something works, I just know that it does.
I think I found the right tongue posture--I spread my tongue and suction it, I feel a nice relaxation and the soft area under my chin rises like the guys in the videos. Only problem is I have to hold my breath 100%. The back of the tongue has to be up for it to work, but I just can't breathe.
Yes Shiek I explained this earlier in the thread this is normal.
If you are starting out - when the back of the tongue comes up - it PARTIALLY BLOCKS the airways ... This is not necessarily the fault of mewing - this is the fault of the positioning of the jaws blocking the airways that mewing is exposing- when your jaws are like this you usually have to lean your neck forward a little to breathe when NOT mewing - to get the oxygen in away from the jaws - if you move your tongue as forward as you can - you'll notice it gets easier to breathe but probably still somewhat difficult - this is because the back of the tongue doesn't have enough space and it's crunched up - the job here is to CREATE THAT SPACE overtime freeing your food and airways
You do not have to force yourself to be this uncomfortable - the goal of mewing and the best part is IT GETS EASIER with every amount of space your tongue gains - as your tongue pushes the jaws more forward more space is created and the jaws MOVE AWAY from the airways freeing them allowing you to mew like this 24/7
It gets better as your jaws move forward but it is not necessarily mewing ... it is the jaws blocking these airways that mewing is exposing - this is why I say consistently throughout the thread
THE JAWS MUST COME OUT
Try your best without causing yourself too much discomfort to get as much as the tongue to get the upper jaw moving - overtime IT WILL RESPOND and your problem will completely disappear ... I speak from experience
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how does it feel to suction it how do you know its being suctioned
If you seal your lips and swallow your saliva 3-4 times in a row (while keeping your lips sealed) - you can think about it like creating a room in your mouth where the air is sealed off - it should feel like your mouth is a vaccuum ... when you stick your tongue up to the roof of the mouth in this environment it should STICK with little to no effort - it shouldn't feel like you're keeping the tongue up - it should feel like it's just sticking there and you should feel your upper jaw "inflating"
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