A Warning On Mewing

sugarbabe

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I have been trying to keep my tongue on the roof of my mouth and I tape my mouth shut at night for the last 2 yrs and for the last year or so I began having tooth sensitivity in my front teeth and TMJ issues on the right side. I have now realized I may have inadvertently caused this by applying too much force on my teeth. I found this thread on another website that explains how to properly "Mew":

A few weeks ago I was talking to my friends (of which I've convinced to uptake proper oral posture). I've been keeping tabs on their progress and offering my guidance since I'm a lot more obsessed and familiar with the topic of mewing than they are. There are 6 of them, half online and half irl and their time spent mewing ranges from a couple of weeks to nearly half a year with an average Inter Molar Width of around 34-35mm or so. Lows were 32ish and highs were 39.

In that time not a single one of them has had their IMW increase. Some of them were getting frustrated (fairly so) and I was getting scared that they were going to give up. I had to investigate. After quite some time and testing and evaluating various oral positions and strategies it turns out that all of them did not have proper tongue posture despite thinking that they did. They had their tongues properly connecting with the tip and mid area of the palate and even some of the tongue near the back but it was NOT enough. Not even close!

It is critical that the back of your tongue (as far back as you can go) is firmly pressed against the back palate and around your back molars. If you have a small IMW like these guys and you are NOT struggling to achieve this state then it is likely you are doing it INCORRECTLY because it is hard to do and tiring when you first start doing it. You need the back of your tongue to be in a shape and in complete contact with your molars/wisdom teeth and all the palate that separates them. When you are doing this properly, this tight fit and tongue contortion is very hard to maintain and it feels like it's gonna fail any second. (At least for the beginning until you get used to it)

Assume a flawless mckenzie chin tuck position and do a proper tongue swallow or the cheesy grin technique so you can feel the very back of your tongue hit your back palate momentarily. THAT is what you need. Keep attempting to achieve this until you can do it constantly. If you find this sensation goes away too readily make sure you are not pushing too hard upwards on the tip or mid palate with you tongue because this force can push the back of your tongue downwards, away from your rear palate.





You see that tiny black arrow indicating the tongue entirely plastered on the back palate? THAT IS THE KEY. I'd rather you completely forget and not bother with mid/front tongue positioning until you can master this because it is very foundation of palate expansion and maxilla development. You should be hitting the back of your mouth as far back as the wisdom teeth if you can help it.

Since I told my mates what they were doing wrong and how to fix it 2 weeks ago, 3 of them are unable achieve this proper posture at all (IMW/palate too small), 1 really struggles with it and can do it some of the time and 2 can do it most of the time (they have the largest IMW's at around 39). In this last fortnight these latter 2 have increased their IMW by AT LEAST 1mm, maybe 1.5mm at most and they've confirmed this. One of them is irl and I checked and confirmed this progress for him. It isn't much but it is entirely noticeable and accredited purely to fixing their posture and doing this [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] PROPERLY. They've mentioned that it's becoming easier to hold this position as their IMW/palate expands.

<Important note; modern adults (or anyone over the age of 9) tend to have a molar width of 29 to 34mm. Anyone with 35 to 38mm will find it much easier but still very hard to make progressive improvements without any formal therapy, and as a rule of thumb when I finish therapy any one who can maintain 38mm or more without retainers tends to maintain good alignment almost indefinitely, with a minimal effort. During childrens treatment expand to 42mm for a girl and 44mm for a boy, clearly some of this is tipping of the molars. Ancient man had an inter-molar width in the high 40's to low 50's.>

A quote from Dr Mew that I remembered that happens to fall very much in line with the experience we all had. Wise man! Mewing is a tough [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] but you gotta do it properly or you will not reap the rewards.

I hope I've convinced you to at least reassess your mewing game and make sure you are doing it right. As for you guys who can't achieve this proper oral posture no matter how hard you try, I think a mechanical palate expander might be necessary until it can be maintained naturally or perhaps expanding your palette with thumb-pulling.

My palate must be too narrow because I really struggle to get the back of my tongue up there and from years of mouth breathing at night and some during the day my tongue doesn't even rest up there comfortably. It's very discouraging! And I even have all 4 of my wisdom teeth mostly in, I can't imagine how difficult it is for people who didn't have room for their wisdom teeth to comfortable get their tongue on the palate.
 

Literally

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There is a trigger point that will release the TMJ but it is difficult to find without some instruction. To give you a visual, it involves hooking the thumb under the jaw and poking hard up in a certain place. However it is potentially dangerous to explore this randomly on your own, because it it right next to some things you really don't want to poke on.

I started to add some rough instructions, but it would be safer use proper instructions from a good source. You might want to look at my recent posts on trigger point therapy and look into the book that is linked to. Or the website the other fellow links to.

People "carry stress in the jaw". You will probably be amazed how much tension you become aware of after releasing this and the nearby trigger points. This is something you can learn to be more conscious of.
 
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Gone Peating

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There is a trigger point that will release the TMJ but it is difficult to find without some instruction. To give you a visual, it involves hooking the thumb under the jaw and poking hard up in a certain place. However it is potentially dangerous to explore this randomly on your own, because it it right next to some things you really don't want to poke on.

I started to add some rough instructions, but it would be safer use proper instructions from a good source. You might want to look at my recent posts on trigger point therapy and look into the book that is linked to. Or the website the other fellow links to.

People "carry stress in the jaw". You will probably be amazed how much tension you become aware of after releasing this and the nearby trigger points. This is something you can learn to be more conscious of.

Which issues were you having that led you to buy the Clair Davies book @Literally

I used to have TMJ actually so I'm curious about reading it
 

sugarbabe

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There is a trigger point that will release the TMJ but it is difficult to find without some instruction. To give you a visual, it involves hooking the thumb under the jaw and poking hard up in a certain place. However it is potentially dangerous to explore this randomly on your own, because it it right next to some things you really don't want to poke on.

I started to add some rough instructions, but it would be safer use proper instructions from a good source. You might want to look at my recent posts on trigger point therapy and look into the book that is linked to. Or the website the other fellow links to.

People "carry stress in the jaw". You will probably be amazed how much tension you become aware of after releasing this and the nearby trigger points. This is something you can learn to be more conscious of.
Thanks, Literally, I still had full range of motion in my jaw, it was the chewing muscles that seemed the most inflamed thus causing pressure on the nerves to my teeth. Since being aware of what my tongue is doing and trying to relax it more I have not had the TMJ, still some sensitivity in the teeth just because of the habit of pushing on the teeth.
 

Literally

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@Janelle525 glad to hear it resolved... very interesting comments, thanks for sharing.

@Gone Peating I originally got into it when I was lifting a lot of weights and started having body pain that got worse the more I would train. It was all over, but mainly started in the legs IIRC.

I think many people could benefit from releasing the trigger point that is associated with TMJ, and others around the face and neck. I found after writing the initial response above that my own was very sore even though I had no awareness of it until I tried releasing it. And then you feel pressure in the jaw and face changing.

Very intense experience. It's unfortunate that the TMJ point is one of a few that requires some special instruction.
 
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Thank you for bringing attention to this. I had similar thoughts about mewing.

There is way, way, way to much focus on what the tip of the tongue is doing. When people explain how to do it on YT, they almost always start their instruction with this. As a result, the tip of the tongue becomes the focus. I think I lost over a month of progress by watching the video I hyperlinked above. People focus on where exactly to place the tip of the tongue when it's largely irrelevant. I think Mike Mew can be blamed for this confusion, because he himself does not make this priority clear in any of his materials. He is aware of it, though.

I have attended one of Mike Mew's talks in person and afterwards he was discussing how to get into the correct position. He said to get the back of the tongue situated properly and the front will follow.

Saying "sing", the "ng" moves the tongue to the back of the throat. You should feel the sensation of the tongue against the back of the throat. That's what it should feel like. Some people feel they can't breathe in this position, and they will need professional help to get to a place where they can be comfortable in this position. It was a bit uncomfortable for me at first, but it's not now.

I find it much easier to place my tongue in the back when doing a chin tuck and a push-swallow simultaneously. I find my tongue slowly creeping forward, though. Once in a blue moon, it locks in and I can keep it there for an hour or more will basically no effort.

I think the whole process will become much easier once you have learned how to swallow properly. Look up the Mew Push Swallow videos. They're a bit slow, but are fundamental to the whole process of mewing. You will not get anywhere if you don't master this. I feel muscular fatigue in the lower portion of my throat when doing this. This is how you swallow water, food, spit, everything. Every time you swallow, you are creating a lot of force against the palate with your tongue, and this is what will ultimately move things for you.

Mew says that time is the most important factor, not necessarily force. I think that is correct, but it is not what beginners should follow. I think that beginners should focus on keeping their mouth shut and doing the push swallow at all times. You can forget about tongue posture because the tongue will naturally start to be in the right position as a result of doing the push swallow constantly.

I can't say I've had any success with mewing yet, this is just based on my experience and my understanding.
 

sugarbabe

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Thank you for bringing attention to this. I had similar thoughts about mewing.

There is way, way, way to much focus on what the tip of the tongue is doing. When people explain how to do it on YT, they almost always start their instruction with this. As a result, the tip of the tongue becomes the focus. I think I lost over a month of progress by watching the video I hyperlinked above. People focus on where exactly to place the tip of the tongue when it's largely irrelevant. I think Mike Mew can be blamed for this confusion, because he himself does not make this priority clear in any of his materials. He is aware of it, though.

I have attended one of Mike Mew's talks in person and afterwards he was discussing how to get into the correct position. He said to get the back of the tongue situated properly and the front will follow.

Saying "sing", the "ng" moves the tongue to the back of the throat. You should feel the sensation of the tongue against the back of the throat. That's what it should feel like. Some people feel they can't breathe in this position, and they will need professional help to get to a place where they can be comfortable in this position. It was a bit uncomfortable for me at first, but it's not now.

I find it much easier to place my tongue in the back when doing a chin tuck and a push-swallow simultaneously. I find my tongue slowly creeping forward, though. Once in a blue moon, it locks in and I can keep it there for an hour or more will basically no effort.

I think the whole process will become much easier once you have learned how to swallow properly. Look up the Mew Push Swallow videos. They're a bit slow, but are fundamental to the whole process of mewing. You will not get anywhere if you don't master this. I feel muscular fatigue in the lower portion of my throat when doing this. This is how you swallow water, food, spit, everything. Every time you swallow, you are creating a lot of force against the palate with your tongue, and this is what will ultimately move things for you.

Mew says that time is the most important factor, not necessarily force. I think that is correct, but it is not what beginners should follow. I think that beginners should focus on keeping their mouth shut and doing the push swallow at all times. You can forget about tongue posture because the tongue will naturally start to be in the right position as a result of doing the push swallow constantly.

I can't say I've had any success with mewing yet, this is just based on my experience and my understanding.
Thanks Steven,
Yeah I should have read more about it before assuming what it was really about. I just saw his new video on how to do it properly and he mentions the back of the tongue whereas I wasn't really aware of that before, maybe he wasn't good at explaining it or something. But I definitely had developed bad habits of using force to try to get my palate to widen, I wish I hadn't. Who knows if I can even change the shape of anything without an appliance.

I've been relearning how to swallow too, but again because of the malocclusion I have to be careful of only using the back of my tongue, hopefully it becomes easier!
 
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I have been trying to keep my tongue on the roof of my mouth and I tape my mouth shut at night for the last 2 yrs and for the last year or so I began having tooth sensitivity in my front teeth and TMJ issues on the right side. I have now realized I may have inadvertently caused this by applying too much force on my teeth. I found this thread on another website that explains how to properly "Mew":



My palate must be too narrow because I really struggle to get the back of my tongue up there and from years of mouth breathing at night and some during the day my tongue doesn't even rest up there comfortably. It's very discouraging! And I even have all 4 of my wisdom teeth mostly in, I can't imagine how difficult it is for people who didn't have room for their wisdom teeth to comfortable get their tongue on the palate.
Initially I had this problems too. My teeth were too sensitive to keep them in contact each other. This sensitivty went away when I started supplementing with potassium bicarbonate and vitamin C. I think that switching from magnesium chloride to magnesium bicarbonate made a huge difference as well. I still have some sensitivity if I drink Coke and then keep the teeth touching, but it goes away pretty fast now. Bag breathing is also great for making the teeth stronger in my experience.
 

sugarbabe

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Initially I had this problems too. My teeth were too sensitive to keep them in contact each other. This sensitivty went away when I started supplementing with potassium bicarbonate and vitamin C. I think that switching from magnesium chloride to magnesium bicarbonate made a huge difference as well. I still have some sensitivity if I drink Coke and then keep the teeth touching, but it goes away pretty fast now. Bag breathing is also great for making the teeth stronger in my experience.
Good ideas thanks!
 

sugarbabe

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My TMJ is back in full force, more severe than ever. I am massaging the muscles trying to keep relaxed, nothing is working except pain meds. Any ideas?

@Literally Could you describe the trigger point?
 

Dolomite

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Maybe try some bag breathing. It might help you relax. I don’t know anything about TMJ.
 
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There is a trigger point that will release the TMJ but it is difficult to find without some instruction. To give you a visual, it involves hooking the thumb under the jaw and poking hard up in a certain place. However it is potentially dangerous to explore this randomly on your own, because it it right next to some things you really don't want to poke on.

I started to add some rough instructions, but it would be safer use proper instructions from a good source. You might want to look at my recent posts on trigger point therapy and look into the book that is linked to. Or the website the other fellow links to.

People "carry stress in the jaw". You will probably be amazed how much tension you become aware of after releasing this and the nearby trigger points. This is something you can learn to be more conscious of.
My jaw is always tight/cracking
 

sugarbabe

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I just don't understand why it's getting worse, not better. I have been taping my mouth at night, trying to keep my tongue on the roof of my mouth at all times and it's just getting worse. Maybe I need a palate widener to keep my tongue in position. I was used to mouth breathing for most of my life. My jaw is probably like WTF?
 

olive

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I just don't understand why it's getting worse, not better. I have been taping my mouth at night, trying to keep my tongue on the roof of my mouth at all times and it's just getting worse. Maybe I need a palate widener to keep my tongue in position. I was used to mouth breathing for most of my life. My jaw is probably like WTF?
I’m not sure if you watched the video but the entire thing is him explaining why in fairly simple terms. Essentially your habitual mouth breathing has forced your jaw joint to shift out of position in order to retain balance. So now when you attempt to hold good tongue/jaw posture you are putting your joint into a compromised position. You need to move the jaw joint to the new set point (he calls it balance) via an appliance you wear nightly. Talk to an orthodontist.
 

sugarbabe

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I’m not sure if you watched the video but the entire thing is him explaining why in fairly simple terms. Essentially your habitual mouth breathing has forced your jaw joint to shift out of position in order to retain balance. So now when you attempt to hold good tongue/jaw posture you are putting your joint into a compromised position. You need to move the jaw joint to the new set point (he calls it balance) via an appliance you wear nightly. Talk to an orthodontist.
I wasn't sure what he meant by the appliance he talks about. There seems to be things you need to know to understand the video. I probably won't be able to find any orthodontist in the middle of the country that knows anything about Mike Mew.
 

sugarbabe

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I bought the trigger point therapy ebook @Literally recommended and have started working on my trigger points on that side of my face and seems things are releasing. I am hopeful. But I also took an Ibuprofen a couple hrs ago.
 

Gone Peating

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I wasn't sure what he meant by the appliance he talks about. There seems to be things you need to know to understand the video. I probably won't be able to find any orthodontist in the middle of the country that knows anything about Mike Mew.

I had tmj terribly bad.

Persistent unceasing pain around the tmj that goes beyond general muscle tightness is caused by the joint having slipped out of the disc at some point. Unfortunately, once the joint has been displaced you cannot move it back into the disc. This creates constant pressure between the upper and lower jaws and grinding when swallowing.

I tried many different things before I was fortunate enough to stumble upon a dentist who essentially wrote the book on TMJ treatment, his name is Dr. Simmons and is based out of Nashville, TN.

There are other good tmj doctors if you search around. Take a look at simmons' website to better understand the issue and then try and find a dentist near you who seems like they know their stuff. I wore a splint appliance during the day for two straight years to create an "open bite" that would provide some room between the upper and lower jaw so they were not constantly in contact, then wore braces for a year, and continue to wear the night guard that i wore throughout treatment so the teeth do not shift back

let me know if you have any questions. if you have had this tmj pain for more than a month now and it is only getting worse you should seek treatment tomorrow
 

Gone Peating

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also i would stop mewing, in theory it sounds good, but the evidence is a bit lacking for its benefits for fully grown adults, especially if you have tmj
 

sugarbabe

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I had tmj terribly bad.

Persistent unceasing pain around the tmj that goes beyond general muscle tightness is caused by the joint having slipped out of the disc at some point. Unfortunately, once the joint has been displaced you cannot move it back into the disc. This creates constant pressure between the upper and lower jaws and grinding when swallowing.

I tried many different things before I was fortunate enough to stumble upon a dentist who essentially wrote the book on TMJ treatment, his name is Dr. Simmons and is based out of Nashville, TN.

There are other good tmj doctors if you search around. Take a look at simmons' website to better understand the issue and then try and find a dentist near you who seems like they know their stuff. I wore a splint appliance during the day for two straight years to create an "open bite" that would provide some room between the upper and lower jaw so they were not constantly in contact, then wore braces for a year, and continue to wear the night guard that i wore throughout treatment so the teeth do not shift back

let me know if you have any questions. if you have had this tmj pain for more than a month now and it is only getting worse you should seek treatment tomorrow
That's very interesting. I really wanted to avoid aggressive treatment by a dentist because I've seen some horror stories about TMJ either not going away or getting worse.

I noticed sensitivity in my teeth mainly lower teeth last year I had no idea what was causing it. It would be pretty bad trying to go to sleep at night like I couldn't find a comfortable position of my jaw and tongue. Then it would flare up really badly if I had been doing a bunch of chewing in the muscles and joint itself. This current flare up happened after chewing chicken and causes pain in my teeth on that side. Only that side I have no pain on the other side. I still have full range of motion in my jaw.

I noticed giving a blow job causes a massive flare up as well. Haha.

I have an overbite which makes Mewing extremely difficult anyway so I'll just not even care about my tongue position anymore I don't even care if my mouth drops open a bit as that feels better than with my tongue in position.
 
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