Troubleshooting Foamy Urine

[maillol]

I haven't really been paid it any thought before so I don't know when it started I'm afraid.

 

[maillol]

Caffeine seems to reduce it.

 

[Vinny]

Caffeine seems to reduce it.

Interesting, and easy to test

 

[MountainMouse]

Dave,

Was your rash shingles?

I have had all the same symptoms that started when my body broke out with shingles.

 

[Smelly5]

@Vinny @yerrag
Did you ever overcome this problem?
I also have this issue, expect I have some kind of infection and get benefit from taking antibiotics.

 

[yerrag]

@Vinny @yerrag
Did you ever overcome this problem?
I also have this issue, expect I have some kind of infection and get benefit from taking antibiotics.

No, unfortunately.

Your case may be different from mine. All I can say is I continue to have high wbc and neutrophils.

When I look back at records to when my bp was normal and my urine wasn't foamy, the markers were lower. Even monocytes and eosinophils were lower.

So, there evidently is some infection but it is considered low grade, where no fever shows.

That infection is a recurring one that doesn't end and it began with a periodontal infection that stayed hidden for years until I had to have periodontal surgery. By then, the infection had already spread to my blood vessels and gotten embedded in biofilm in the vessel walls and established strong colonies that are stubbornly surviving if not anymore flourishing with different attempts to eradicate.

The thing is that I urinate a lot, and I wake up from 2-4x each night, and there are times I even wake up every hour to pee when I'm taking antibacterial supplements. The more effective the supplements, such as Lugol's Iodine, the more urine and the more foamy.

The foam is from oxidized albumin which happens when albumin is used as an antioxidants to quell the oxidative stress arising from spillover ROS from the respiratory burst of phagocytosis used by neuteophils and macrophages to kill bacteria. As an aside, I get high bp from reduced blood volume due to my serum albumin being used a lot and being low. I also have thinning hair from sulfur being diverted from producing hair in order for the liver to produce more albumin to replace what keeps getting used.

What I described may not apply to you though, as there are other reasons for your foamy urine.

But frequent urination and foamy urine isn't really all that bad when you think of it as the body protecting you from the harm from either pathogenic microbes or toxins. Even if that protection drains your body of resources and diverts it from other uses.

 

[yerrag]

But frequent urination and foamy urine isn't really all that bad when you think of it as the body protecting you from the harm from either pathogenic microbes or toxins. Even if that protection drains your body of resources and diverts it from other uses.

@Smelly5

I don't want to sound like I'm giving up. Still at it, but what I don't want to happen is to end up eliminating the foaming by some mechanism that does not involve eliminating the infectious root cause.

 

[Smelly5]

No, unfortunately.

Your case may be different from mine. All I can say is I continue to have high wbc and neutrophils.

When I look back at records to when my bp was normal and my urine wasn't foamy, the markers were lower. Even monocytes and eosinophils were lower.

So, there evidently is some infection but it is considered low grade, where no fever shows.

That infection is a recurring one that doesn't end and it began with a periodontal infection that stayed hidden for years until I had to have periodontal surgery. By then, the infection had already spread to my blood vessels and gotten embedded in biofilm in the vessel walls and established strong colonies that are stubbornly surviving if not anymore flourishing with different attempts to eradicate.

The thing is that I urinate a lot, and I wake up from 2-4x each night, and there are times I even wake up every hour to pee when I'm taking antibacterial supplements. The more effective the supplements, such as Lugol's Iodine, the more urine and the more foamy.

The foam is from oxidized albumin which happens when albumin is used as an antioxidants to quell the oxidative stress arising from spillover ROS from the respiratory burst of phagocytosis used by neuteophils and macrophages to kill bacteria. As an aside, I get high bp from reduced blood volume due to my serum albumin being used a lot and being low. I also have thinning hair from sulfur being diverted from producing hair in order for the liver to produce more albumin to replace what keeps getting used.

What I described may not apply to you though, as there are other reasons for your foamy urine.

But frequent urination and foamy urine isn't really all that bad when you think of it as the body protecting you from the harm from either pathogenic microbes or toxins. Even if that protection drains your body of resources and diverts it from other uses.

What antibioitics have you tried?
What tests for bacterial infection have you done? Is your serum b12 persistantly elevated?

 

[Vinny]

@Vinny @yerrag
Did you ever overcome this problem?
I also have this issue, expect I have some kind of infection and get benefit from taking antibiotics.

No, not yet. It`s not as bad as initially but it still goes on.
I resonate with @yerrag the reason being a bacterial infection - this is my best guess. But no clue what kind and what to do about it. I know only that most probably it has nothing to do with the kidneys.

 

[yerrag]

What antibioitics have you tried?
What tests for bacterial infection have you done? Is your serum b12 persistantly elevated?

Have tried 50mg - 100mg daily doses of doxy for periods of 2 weeks. Have also tried 100mg tetracycline for as long.

And have tried 2 weeks of daily 100mg doxy, followed by 5 weeks of co-amoxiclav aka augmentin(forgot dosage and frequency) followed by 7 weeks of a Z-Pak each week (Azithromycin 3 x 500mg). Was taking some biofilm busters together with them.

All did nothing. No reduction in urine and foaming. No outward deleterious effects although it seemed to have cleaned up my gut that I have been having mostly ghost wipes and much less frequency of farts since then.

As for B-12, I haven't taken tests for a long time. I didnt have reason to as m source of b12 is beef liver, which I only take once a week. Have long stopped taking B-complexes, and only take my own blend of B1, B2, and B3.

p.s. Tarmander's Quax podcast on antibiotics helped me choose relatively safe antibiotics to use. Didn't went to take 10 steps back experimenting. While the unintended side effects on my gut was good, I normally don't take antibiotics as there are natural ones. There was a lot of wanting to have the issue done away with, and it was a Hail Mary of sorts.

Taking tatracycline gave me the worst outcome. I think it caused some bacteria to develop into cell wall deficient forms that made them more pathogenic and virulent, going towards the fungal stage. I think it was also helped by me taking industrially made USP potassium citrate. A bad combo, a perfect storm.

 

[yerrag]

No, not yet. It`s not as bad as initially but it still goes on.
I resonate with @yerrag the reason being a bacterial infection - this is my best guess. But no clue what kind and what to do about it. I know only that most probably it has nothing to do with the kidneys.

The kidney thing, yes, overblown by Google and medical 'experts.' When you urinate a lot, its always the prostate. When the urine foams s lot, it's the kidneys.

I have better chances going under a ladder or meeting a black cat lol.

As they would say, it's for entertainment purposes only.

 

[Smelly5]

In the past 2 days I've had no foam or odor in urine at all. This would be the first time in months and months.

I've been drinking lots of potato juice and taking a lot of collagen/gelatin.
I'm yet to try them separately but will in the coming days.

The potatoes, contain the keto acids which remove the burden of amonnia from the intenstines, lungs and kidneys. I get a whole host of benefits including much better breathing, energy and calmness.
I only use potatoes from a shop I trust. I leave the skins on and use a juicer to remove as much starch as possible. I cook them for as long as possible.

The only Collagen source I trust is this one;
Yes, it's expensive. Premium Collagen
Collagen/gelatin is suppose to help heal ulcers. This is the first time I've started taking such large doses (3TBPS at a time). The protein made from the amonnia in the potato juice should also contribute to better wound healing.

Dr Peat says one of the things foam in urine can be, is Estrogen. I tested high serum estrogen recently and have ulcer/infection symptoms.

I'm waiting for better anti-biotics to try and going to continue with high dose collagen in the meantime.

 

[yerrag]

Yes, Ray has talked of estrogen contributing to foaming. You just have to see if you indeed have high estrogen. Its not easy to tell just by doing a serum test, as a lot of the estrogen is in the tissues and is not reflected in serum tests. So you may get a better idea by looking at gauges for metabolic health such as temperature, acid base balance, blood sugar regulation, weight, your Achilles tendon reflex or the QTc value in an ECG. Additional metrics are your cholesterol levels.

Once you eliminate high estrogen as the cause, you can free yourself to find other causes. Ray's focus on hormones can sometimes get in the way of looking at other causes.

As for ammonia, I tested normal on serum ammonia, so I eliminated that as a cause of urine foaming.

You may be on to something though, if your urine having no foam for two days straght extends further. I have only experienced a day of no foam, which turned out to be a dud.

I hope you can solve your problem quickly.

 

[Smelly5]

Yes, Ray has talked of estrogen contributing to foaming. You just have to see if you indeed have high estrogen. Its not easy to tell just by doing a serum test, as a lot of the estrogen is in the tissues and is not reflected in serum tests. So you may get a better idea by looking at gauges for metabolic health such as temperature, acid base balance, blood sugar regulation, weight, your Achilles tendon reflex or the QTc value in an ECG. Additional metrics are your cholesterol levels.

Once you eliminate high estrogen as the cause, you can free yourself to find other causes. Ray's focus on hormones can sometimes get in the way of looking at other causes.

As for ammonia, I tested normal on serum ammonia, so I eliminated that as a cause of urine foaming.

You may be on to something though, if your urine having no foam for two days straght extends further. I have only experienced a day of no foam, which turned out to be a dud.

I hope you can solve your problem quickly.

Thanks yeah I have many other estrogenic symptoms. Ulcers can cause a dump of Estrogen.
I too also measured in-range for ammonia and urea in urine and blood. So it's quite striking that I get such good results from the potato juice, which is supposed to exhert it's effects due to the clearing of amonnia ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Vinny]

In the past 2 days I've had no foam or odor in urine at all. This would be the first time in months and months.

I've been drinking lots of potato juice and taking a lot of collagen/gelatin.
I'm yet to try them separately but will in the coming days.

The potatoes, contain the keto acids which remove the burden of amonnia from the intenstines, lungs and kidneys. I get a whole host of benefits including much better breathing, energy and calmness.
I only use potatoes from a shop I trust. I leave the skins on and use a juicer to remove as much starch as possible. I cook them for as long as possible.

The only Collagen source I trust is this one;
Yes, it's expensive. Premium Collagen
Collagen/gelatin is suppose to help heal ulcers. This is the first time I've started taking such large doses (3TBPS at a time). The protein made from the amonnia in the potato juice should also contribute to better wound healing.

Dr Peat says one of the things foam in urine can be, is Estrogen. I tested high serum estrogen recently and have ulcer/infection symptoms.

I'm waiting for better anti-biotics to try and going to continue with high dose collagen in the meantime.

Interesting.
I also have no foam sometimes, but haven`t been able to find out why. For sure it`s not because of potato juice or collagen/gelatin because I don`t use them.

Regarding ulcers...... Could it be the reason? I had a lot of mouth ulcers (afts) as a kid and during a part of my adulthood (but no foamy urine back then) which went away mysteriously by themselves together with other symptoms (jock itch as one example). Now, actually it`s been a time, I experience a dull pain in my upper left abdomen and a general feeling of discomfort in the stomach. If it`s pain from a stomach ulcer, then we might be on to something. Looking forward for your updates!

 

[Smelly5]

Update;
I had no foam until yeterday evening which was about an hour after I played football (intense running/exercise for 70 minutes or so)
Even still, the foam wasn't anywhere near as bad.

I've been continueing the collagen without potato juice.
Today I had no foam again.

I think it makes sense that it revolves around ulcers and stress hormones as a result of the ulcers (which is a result of infection).
Adding the high amounts of collagen supposedly helps the ulcers heal, while also countering some of the negative effects of the stress hormones.
The foam is due to excretion of the hormones. As mentioned, I already tested high for serum estrogen, so I know it's in circulation.

The football is the only cardio-ish thing that I do. During intensive exercise, blood is shuttled away from the digestive tract and any GI problems like ulcers are exentuated.

I suggest anyone who is running into the problem atleast give the collagen a try.
I think there is a lot of nasty cheap stuff out there though, which might not help and might even make things worse.
I'm lucky that I have a good source in my country that I trust, although expensive.

I've been mixing my collagen into milk with heaps of honey to make sure my blood sugar doesnt crash. I have to warm the collagen a bit first to make sure it doesnt clump.

 

[Vinny]

Update;
I had no foam until yeterday evening which was about an hour after I played football (intense running/exercise for 70 minutes or so)
Even still, the foam wasn't anywhere near as bad.

I've been continueing the collagen without potato juice.
Today I had no foam again.

I think it makes sense that it revolves around ulcers and stress hormones as a result of the ulcers (which is a result of infection).
Adding the high amounts of collagen supposedly helps the ulcers heal, while also countering some of the negative effects of the stress hormones.
The foam is due to excretion of the hormones. As mentioned, I already tested high for serum estrogen, so I know it's in circulation.

The football is the only cardio-ish thing that I do. During intensive exercise, blood is shuttled away from the digestive tract and any GI problems like ulcers are exentuated.

I suggest anyone who is running into the problem atleast give the collagen a try.
I think there is a lot of nasty cheap stuff out there though, which might not help and might even make things worse.
I'm lucky that I have a good source in my country that I trust, although expensive.

I've been mixing my collagen into milk with heaps of honey to make sure my blood sugar doesnt crash. I have to warm the collagen a bit first to make sure it doesnt clump.

Appreciate your update.
It`s going to be tricky or too expensive to order a good collagen brand where I live. Do you know if I can substitute it with some food sources?
Thanks.

 

[Smelly5]

Appreciate your update.
It`s going to be tricky or too expensive to order a good collagen brand where I live. Do you know if I can substitute it with some food sources?
Thanks.

I was taking collagen in much smaller amounts for a long time and didn't have this effect.
It's only helped this topic since I've gone ham and started doing 3 TBPS+ at a time which for me atleast seems like a lot.
So the food might help if you're consistant in the long term, but not give you any noticable results.

Pretty sure Saturee ships their products internationally but it would be physco expensive with the shipping and currency conversion as well.
Others on the forum have recommended purebulk.com Collagen but I haven't tried it personally.

 

[Spondive]

L cysteine 500 mg a day seems to have stopped my foamy urine…interesting

 

[yerrag]

L cysteine 500 mg a day seems to have stopped my foamy urine…interesting

That's awesome! How did you think of trying that?