Troubleshooting Foamy Urine

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by Dave M, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Dave M

    Dave M Member

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    I've had foamy/bubbly urine for about a year and a half now. I never had this issue before, and it is now chronic. I've had numerous tests from various doctors which all show I have normal kidney function, no excess protein, good GFR, etc. Before these rounds of tests, my first family doctor suggested I cut back on protein and try drinking lots of cranberry juice in case of an infection. This made the issue much worse. I found that drinking juice of any sort, and otherwise consuming lots of sugar increases the foam dramatically. I've also found that my first morning urine is usually the worst of the day. The only thing that seems to help is drinking tons of water but I'm pretty sure its just dilution.

    I've read on these boards that Ray Peat thinks foam could either be steroids precursors or possibly stress hormones. Both of these might explain the early morning increase in foam. I'm looking for some advice for blood or urine testing, diet or supplement regimens, or other things I can test out to figure out whats going on and hopefully reverse the issue. I'm generally a very low stress person, my gut tells me I'm having issues with some stage of androgen metabolism. My testosterone is fairly low for my age, usually in measuring int he low 300s as a 30 year old man. I also no longer feel any surge of testosterone after heavy lifting in the gym, which in the past had been very reliable for me.

    Thanks, any advice is welcome.
     
  2. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    Interested, as well. I've had this too on and off in the last few months.
     
  3. bivic

    bivic Member

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    I'm interested too. I get it when drinking hydrogen water.
     
  4. Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    I've had it for about 3 years. Also did kidney tests. It has nothing to do with kidneys/protein consumption. Drinking more water will only dilute it. I don't think also, that it has any connection with androgen meatabolism. Doctors are completely clueless what causes it.

    I think it,s from infection.

    Check @yerrag posts, he,s got it as well, we,ve discussed it with him several times.

    Please, describe other symptoms you have.
     
  5. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    That could be it. I haven't had it for a while since I've developped a habit of eating fresh cranberry sauce. Cranberry is known to disrupt biofilms.
     
  6. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Yes, in my case, it's from infection. From periodontal bacteria that has very likely formed biofilms and colonies along my vascular endothelium (from years of exposure to periodontal infection, which had been releasing bacteria. The longer it has been going on, the more the bacteria that has accumulated). This bacteria causes peptides and proteins to be unbound from serum albumin. The bacteria secretes enzymes, called gingipains, which degrade peptides to provide a source of nitrogen and carbon for the bacteria to feed on. Because albumin detached from the peptides are lower in molecular weight, it is more easily excreted with urine through the kidneys. The excreted albumin is what's causing my foamy urine.
     
  7. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    It's been a long time since I read it but RP said foamy urine is from free/nonesterified fatty acids. Soap is made from fat, and I forget the particulars of how it makes urine foamy. 50mg of niacinamide works pretty well for me.
     
  8. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    He has also stated it comes from estrogen being detoxed by the liver.

    I think it would be helpful for us to view his answers as not applying to all contexts. I would prefer to view his answer to be context-specific.

    A cause would be estrogen, for example. Not "the cause" is estrogen, for example.

    Otherwise, we risk going into a rabbit-hole that's hard to extricate ourselves from. As in a wild-goose chase.
     
  9. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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  10. RWilly

    RWilly Member

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    I've been wondering about this myself. I used to have foamy pee (and sometime I still have it), but I have had mostly non-foamy pee in the last couple of months. I think it has to do with sugar, although I'm not quite sure that is it. It sort of seems like the more sugar and starch I have, the less foam. I've been wondering if it is the oatmeal I have with a lot of brown sugar on it. But like I said, I'm not making that claim because I don't know for sure yet.
     
  11. ilhanxx

    ilhanxx Member

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    It increase when i use topical spironolactone, it can be related with aldosteron mechanism, (na-k),
     
  12. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    That could be my case this summer. It was getting worse in the late stage of my pregnancy and I had quite a bit of water retention...
     
  13. ilhanxx

    ilhanxx Member

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    I have always excessive urination all my life, during excessive urination period, I have never seen foamy urination, spironolactone reduce urination and cause foamy urination,
     
  14. OP
    Dave M

    Dave M Member

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    Yerrag, were you able to reverse your periodontal infection? I was hospitalized with a really bad fever and rash some near the onset of the foamy urine, but I can't really remember if the illness preceded or came after the foam. The emergency room doctors ran both blood and urine cultures which were negative for bacteria. Their conclusion was that I most likely had some sort of viral infection. The illness and rash resolved after 3 days, but the issues with foaming urine have been constant ever since. The only patterns I can really identify are that sugar increases foam, and the foam is the worst in the morning. It's possible sugar intake could be feeding bacteria, do you use a mouth wash? I used to get a white film on my tongue but haven't had that for quite some time.
     
  15. ChristineHou

    ChristineHou Member

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    I heard it was a sign of parasites. I think it was Dr. Daniels that said that but not sure.
     
  16. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Now that you mention it as a result of parasitic infection, I can't help but agree. I think I'm like everyone in thinking of parasites as worms that mainly exist in the gut, such as roundworms and tapeworms, but that is a very restrictive understanding of that term. Anything that feeds off the body's nutrients is what I've come to believe as parasites, and it can be a bacteria as well. In my case, I have a bacteria that in small concentration does little harm. But in large concentration, its parasitic effects are felt in a pathological way. It forms biofilms with other bacteria, in order to help strengthen each other. It produces enzymes that break down some proteins into smaller peptide fragments, which it can feed on. In can also break down agglomeration of proteins and peptides. Porphyromonas Gingivalis, a periodontal bacteria that has established a biofilm colony in my blood vessel walls, breaks down albumin-based agglomerates of peptides in blood, reducing the size of the agglomeration, such that it becomes small enough to get through the kidney filters. Because the albumin is also oxidized (and this changes its polarity), it does not get resorbed back into the bloodstream in the kidney tubules, and it gets excreted along with the rest of the urine. This is what causes urine to be be foamy in my case.

    The past weeks I've been getting very foamy urine, and my blood pressure has increased. My blood has lower albumin, and lower albumin attracts less salt, and less salt attracts less water. This causes my blood volume to be lower, and the lower the blood volume, the higher the blood pressure needed to compensate for the lower blood volume.
     
  17. Vinny

    Vinny Member

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    When I think of this now, it might be parasites, yes....
     
  18. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Sorry I missed your post.

    My periodontal has been resolved for 15 months already, but the bacteria lives on in my vascular system, and the urine foam comes from this condition. I've done urinalysis, and there's no bacteria. And I doubt the blood would show traces of bacteria, given that the bacteria clings on to the vessel linings, and for advanced cases like mine, there would be biofilms as well, which makes the bacteria hard to dislodge or even be affected by antibiotics.

    I take a lot of sugar, and I don't see it affecting the frequency and volume of foaming in my urine though. But I have a healthy gut. I rarely have diarrhea nor have constipation, not have any issue with digestion. How is your gut health? I don't know if gut health has anything to do with urine foaming, but it's something you can look into.

    My foaming comes from albumin being excreted through urine. You may want to check your urine albumin excretion to see if it's albumin excretion causing that. An albumin/creatinine urine test can shed some light. If it's not albumin, then you'd have to look at it from a hormonal Ray Peat standpoint. Maybe there's a lot of estrogen that's being detoxed by your liver.
     
  19. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    I'm starting to see less foam from my urine, but I'll have to observe for much longer, as it's only been two days.

    I have to keep doing what I've been doing for the past few days, with my efforts directed towards keeping the periodontal bacteria from using up proteins and breaking them down as its food from their nitrogen and carbon content. I'm literally throwing the sink at the bacteria to kill it and its partners in crime in other bacteria and fungi in symbiotic cahoots with it, as well as neutralizing the enzymes it produces.

    I'm hoping that the less foam would be a sign that my albumin is no longer being depleted, and that as my serum albumin stores increase, I would see the effect shortly in terms of lower blood pressure, with confirmation of higher blood volume as seen in my cbc rbc, hemoglobin, and hematocrit values (the lower the better) as well as with lower albumin/creatinine ratio in urine.

    I'm not being very detailed now with the protocol I'm using, as it's still too early. My blood pressure hasn't significantly subsided enough for me to spend on blood and urine tests to confirm my suspicions.
     
  20. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    I personally have this same problem. started about a year ago when I was experimenting with glutathione, folate and b1 supplementation. maybe one of these things caused some stress to my kidneys. but doctor said tests all fine.

    it does come and go. sometimes extremely frothy and then clear.

    I do notice that all things that are alkaline possibly stop the froth and after very acidic foods the froth seems to come back. not sure if that's anything to do with it though
     
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