Swollen Calves/Lower Body, discomfort/pressure in back/spine/kidney area (unknown cause?) Please advise, struggling immensely.

[Hairfedup]

Hey guys its me again. Coupled with the issues I've been suffering from over the last 2 1/2 years due to extremely high stress and suspected gut bacteria as well as malaise post-Covid, since late Nov my lower body especially my calves have been swelling, mostly discomfort but has evolved into some pain, always coupled with pressure and discomfort in my kidney and spinal area. My muscles particularly in the calves, thighs and back twitch and spasm all the time and in the first cycle my hands and feet would cramp constantly. Muscles are weak but this has been the case for the last 2 years and isn't new, particularly the upper body. Strangely the symptoms started in late Nov/ early December, disappeared by early January, and then returned in the beginning of February. After having both bloods and and ultrasound, there doesn't seem to be any issue in the organs according to doctors and my urine is blood and foam free. My pinky toe nails have become black and a small white spot has appeared on my index nail during these last couple of months. Skin/face has also become very dry and itchy suddenly. This has me stumped and I'm wondering what it possibly could be. I take Aspirin and K2 to be able to function daily for the last 2 years and so far:

1. Quitting K2 seems to help but I'm not sure if I'm quitting at the end of the cycle of symptoms to be able to figure out if this is a probably cause - I've been K2 free for 3 days now and the symptoms are only slightly better.
2. Trying Thorne Magnesium at first seemed like it worked well but is now making the twitches/spasms even worse?
3. Potassium deficiency?
4. Possible Vitamin A poisoning? A low Vitamin A diet for a week or so didn't do much but maybe I wasn't disciplined enough.
5. Circulation and other issues from smoking cigarettes? While I had covid I didn't smoke for 10 days and all symptoms subsided but again this could have just been at the end of this particular cycle - sorry if I keep repeating it but I find it really odd how my symptoms are always cyclical, making it difficult to pinpoint to what degree any change I make has.
6. Finally, could it all possibly be a new batch of symptoms relating to my suspected gut/intestinal bacteria? These symptoms started in November after being prescribed antibiotics for a suspected UTI that couldn't have been sexually transmitted - for 2 weeks after the antibiotic course I felt almost completely fine again, almost like the last few years never happened then bam this happened. Could the nitrofurantoin have caused these problems or could it have killed some of the suspected bacteria which have recurred stronger and in greater capacity than before? I'm thinking it can't just be coincidental but I can't get my head around which possible line of investigation to go down! My mind is entrenched by stress and anxiety.

So although these are relatively new symptoms I can't help but wonder if its just a progression of what I've been dealing with or a consequence of lifestyle and supplementation due to the general malaise I've been experiencing for close to 3 years now (sadly a whole thread could be dedicated to that in itself). I've been feeling suicidal as the issues never seem to let up even when the end sometimes seems in sight coupled with my sister's complete break down and I'm really on the edge. Any and all advice would be thoroughly appreciated, the struggle is truly real.

 

[Peatful]

I haven’t read your past medical history-
you seem very in tune-

You said “ive been dealing with the consequences of lifestyle and supplementation”

So- have you stopped all supplements and reassessed after 3 days to 3 weeks?

 

[Hairfedup]

I haven’t read your past medical history-
you seem very in tune-

You said “ive been dealing with the consequences of lifestyle and supplementation”

So- have you stopped all supplements and reassessed after 3 days to 3 weeks?

Hey thank you for the response.

I haven't been able to stop all supplements because just the thought of not taking aspirin for example grips me with fear. A day feels like a month and a week feels like a year living with my mentally unwell sister and a lack of work. Truly. I know I really should try but it seems so hard in my current mental state. Its something I'm seriously considering but can't quite commit to.

 

[Peatful]

Hey thank you for the response.

I haven't been able to stop all supplements because just the thought of not taking aspirin for example grips me with fear. A day feels like a month and a week feels like a year living with my mentally unwell sister and a lack of work. Truly. I know I really should try but it seems so hard in my current mental state. Its something I'm seriously considering but can't quite commit to.

Im actually driving currently- at stop light of course-

Listen-
Hang in there
Your body is fighting for you
Fighting for balance
It’s telling you quite a lot

If you were my client or brother etc
I would highly highly encourage you to stop all supplements to get to a baseline
You don’t have to stop forever
But your body is in chaos
A very stressed state

Others will chime in

We haven’t even talked about your food intake.....

Best to you

 

[looking2grow96]

how's your blood pressure?

 

[shanny]

Could the nitrofurantoin have caused these problems or could it have killed some of the suspected bacteria which have recurred stronger and in greater capacity than before?

I think this is really good information and you're probably spot on. The fact that you had resolution of your symptoms for a bit gives you insight on the probability of pathogenic bacteria which likely came back with a vengeance!

I'm really truly sorry for the malaise and suicidal feelings. It sounds like it's been pretty overwhelming despite your personal efforts to dig yourself out of a hole. I can speak from personal experience and from the mistakes of others that the supplement rabbit hole can be a very slippery slope. My advice is to nourish yourself with things that feel good to YOU. Only you are going to know the foods that are working for you. I would start very simply and pick 2 or 3 things that you know you digest well and that give you a good feeling. You said you can't imagine going without aspirin....then keep that in there. If that's the one supplement that you're insistent that is working for you, then you are probably right! Give yourself a few weeks like this and establish a baseline, then add a new food as you're feeling better.

You sounds overwhelmed with other things in your life as well. Is there anything that you do to escape this? Anything that brings you joy or happiness? Simple things like walks in the sun, coffee with a friend, whatever. It helps to do at least one thing for yourself every day that gets you out of the funk!

Last thing, a little more info on your diet might be helpful!

 

[Peatness]

Nitrofurantoin blocks thiamine. I was prescribed this and still recovery from the after effects. Mostlylurking has some greats post on the effect of antibiotics on thiamine

Recovering from Long Covid with Thiamine - Hormones Matter

After 15+ months with Long COVID or Post-Acute COVID-19 Syndrome (PACS), I can honestly say that I’m grateful for the experience.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Nitrofurantoin - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

Peripheral Nerve Toxic Effects of Nitrofurantoin

Objective To investigate the role of skin biopsy in nitrofurantoin peripheral neuropathy.Design We describe the clinical features and skin biopsies of 2 cases of non–length-dependent small-fiber neuropathy/ganglionopathy attributable to nitrofurantoin.Setting Clinical evaluation and skin biopsies...

jamanetwork.com

 

[Hairfedup]

Im actually driving currently- at stop light of course-

Listen-
Hang in there
Your body is fighting for you
Fighting for balance
It’s telling you quite a lot

If you were my client or brother etc
I would highly highly encourage you to stop all supplements to get to a baseline
You don’t have to stop forever
But your body is in chaos
A very stressed state

Others will chime in

We haven’t even talked about your food intake.....

Best to you

I think this is really good information and you're probably spot on. The fact that you had resolution of your symptoms for a bit gives you insight on the probability of pathogenic bacteria which likely came back with a vengeance!

I'm really truly sorry for the malaise and suicidal feelings. It sounds like it's been pretty overwhelming despite your personal efforts to dig yourself out of a hole. I can speak from personal experience and from the mistakes of others that the supplement rabbit hole can be a very slippery slope. My advice is to nourish yourself with things that feel good to YOU. Only you are going to know the foods that are working for you. I would start very simply and pick 2 or 3 things that you know you digest well and that give you a good feeling. You said you can't imagine going without aspirin....then keep that in there. If that's the one supplement that you're insistent that is working for you, then you are probably right! Give yourself a few weeks like this and establish a baseline, then add a new food as you're feeling better.

You sounds overwhelmed with other things in your life as well. Is there anything that you do to escape this? Anything that brings you joy or happiness? Simple things like walks in the sun, coffee with a friend, whatever. It helps to do at least one thing for yourself every day that gets you out of the funk!

Last thing, a little more info on your diet might be helpful!

Nitrofurantoin blocks thiamine. I was prescribed this and still recovery from the after effects. Mostlylurking has some greats post on the effect of antibiotics on thiamine

Recovering from Long Covid with Thiamine - Hormones Matter

After 15+ months with Long COVID or Post-Acute COVID-19 Syndrome (PACS), I can honestly say that I’m grateful for the experience.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Nitrofurantoin - LiverTox - NCBI Bookshelf

Peripheral Nerve Toxic Effects of Nitrofurantoin

Objective To investigate the role of skin biopsy in nitrofurantoin peripheral neuropathy.Design We describe the clinical features and skin biopsies of 2 cases of non–length-dependent small-fiber neuropathy/ganglionopathy attributable to nitrofurantoin.Setting Clinical evaluation and skin biopsies...

jamanetwork.com

Thank you all for your kind suggestions, this forum truly moves me sometimes. My body is indeed in a extremely highly stressed state but I can't see that ending any time soon; I'm not the type of man that can emotionally detach at all and my sister's condition continues to worsen.

Its crazy as my skin is suddenly so dry and itchy another kidney disease symptom along with muscle cramping and over urination but my GP insists there's no kidney issue. Hopefully he is right. I'm going to try supplement cessation for a month - and try quit smoking shortly after (simultaneously would be ideal but seems overwhelming).

Pina, even though I'm trying to return to a baseline would a decent B-complex suffice if it is indeed a thiamine issue?

Thank you all again

 

[Peatness]

Thank you all for your kind suggestions, this forum truly moves me sometimes. My body is indeed in a extremely highly stressed state but I can't see that ending any time soon; I'm not the type of man that can emotionally detach at all and my sister's condition continues to worsen.

Its crazy as my skin is suddenly so dry and itchy another kidney disease symptom along with muscle cramping and over urination but my GP insists there's no kidney issue. Hopefully he is right. I'm going to try supplement cessation for a month - and try quit smoking shortly after (simultaneously would be ideal but seems overwhelming).

Pina, even though I'm trying to return to a baseline would a decent B-complex suffice if it is indeed a thiamine issue?

Thank you all again

Please read mostlylurking's post - her posts are very good at explaining thiamine and dosing. Knowing you are a smoker changes everything imo. As an ex smoker I can confirm that it makes thiamine deficiency worse. Do everything in you power to stop - It's not easy I know but the nerve damage will continue if you continue to smoke. I personally have not found b complex enough to correct my symptoms after nitrofurantoin. Even with high dose thiamine I am still struggling because I wont give up my morning coffee with lots of white sugar - everything has a price. You could try refeeding without the supplements and see how you feel but I'm not qualified enough to say what effect this will have.

The itching could be the excess vitamin A you mentioned above - perhaps get that tested. @youngsinatra has written about vitamin A toxicity recently look at this post.

Giving up smoking can be tough but believe me one day you will be able to go through a day without thinking about cigarettes.

Wishing you strength

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hey guys its me again. Coupled with the issues I've been suffering from over the last 2 1/2 years due to extremely high stress and suspected gut bacteria as well as malaise post-Covid, since late Nov my lower body especially my calves have been swelling, mostly discomfort but has evolved into some pain, always coupled with pressure and discomfort in my kidney and spinal area. My muscles particularly in the calves, thighs and back twitch and spasm all the time and in the first cycle my hands and feet would cramp constantly. Muscles are weak but this has been the case for the last 2 years and isn't new, particularly the upper body. Strangely the symptoms started in late Nov/ early December, disappeared by early January, and then returned in the beginning of February. After having both bloods and and ultrasound, there doesn't seem to be any issue in the organs according to doctors and my urine is blood and foam free. My pinky toe nails have become black and a small white spot has appeared on my index nail during these last couple of months. Skin/face has also become very dry and itchy suddenly. This has me stumped and I'm wondering what it possibly could be. I take Aspirin and K2 to be able to function daily for the last 2 years and so far:

1. Quitting K2 seems to help but I'm not sure if I'm quitting at the end of the cycle of symptoms to be able to figure out if this is a probably cause - I've been K2 free for 3 days now and the symptoms are only slightly better.
2. Trying Thorne Magnesium at first seemed like it worked well but is now making the twitches/spasms even worse?
3. Potassium deficiency?
4. Possible Vitamin A poisoning? A low Vitamin A diet for a week or so didn't do much but maybe I wasn't disciplined enough.
5. Circulation and other issues from smoking cigarettes? While I had covid I didn't smoke for 10 days and all symptoms subsided but again this could have just been at the end of this particular cycle - sorry if I keep repeating it but I find it really odd how my symptoms are always cyclical, making it difficult to pinpoint to what degree any change I make has.
6. Finally, could it all possibly be a new batch of symptoms relating to my suspected gut/intestinal bacteria? These symptoms started in November after being prescribed antibiotics for a suspected UTI that couldn't have been sexually transmitted - for 2 weeks after the antibiotic course I felt almost completely fine again, almost like the last few years never happened then bam this happened. Could the nitrofurantoin have caused these problems or could it have killed some of the suspected bacteria which have recurred stronger and in greater capacity than before? I'm thinking it can't just be coincidental but I can't get my head around which possible line of investigation to go down! My mind is entrenched by stress and anxiety.

So although these are relatively new symptoms I can't help but wonder if its just a progression of what I've been dealing with or a consequence of lifestyle and supplementation due to the general malaise I've been experiencing for close to 3 years now (sadly a whole thread could be dedicated to that in itself). I've been feeling suicidal as the issues never seem to let up even when the end sometimes seems in sight coupled with my sister's complete break down and I'm really on the edge. Any and all advice would be thoroughly appreciated, the struggle is truly real.

It sounds to me like you have a several things going on, a possible fungal infection and some nutritional imbalances/deficiencies.

White spots on nails: Causes, prevention, and treatment

White spots on nails is also known as leukonychia, but what are they? What causes them, how can white spots be treated, and can they be prevented? We look at all the causes here, including physical damage and medical conditions, help you find out what to do about white spots on the nails, and...

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Black Toenail: Causes, Treatments, and More

Black toenails are attributed to a variety of causes, some of which resolve on their own. If your nail doesn't get better, you'll need to see your doctor.

www.healthline.com

 

[shanny]

You could try refeeding without the supplements

I second this completely. You sound very overwhelmed. Start with one thing at a time and paramount is your diet. Your liver definitely needs protein to help with everything you're describing, and animal sources of protein are going to give you some of the B-vitamins and amino acids your body needs for the detox process. You didn't say much about your diet, but are you getting good nutrition? I don't see supplements as nutrition, and like I said before, I've only seen people get in a lot of trouble trying out-supplement their life.

I say take it one step at a time and we can definitely help you with your diet. Don't be too hard on yourself about the smoking, I think if you start eating a bit better and balance your nutrient intake, you may feel you have the energy and mental capacity to cut the smoking!

 

[Hairfedup]

Please read mostlylurking's post - her posts are very good at explaining thiamine and dosing. Knowing you are a smoker changes everything imo. As an ex smoker I can confirm that it makes thiamine deficiency worse. Do everything in you power to stop - It's not easy I know but the nerve damage will continue if you continue to smoke. I personally have not found b complex enough to correct my symptoms after nitrofurantoin. Even with high dose thiamine I am still struggling because I wont give up my morning coffee with lots of white sugar - everything has a price. You could try refeeding without the supplements and see how you feel but I'm not qualified enough to say what effect this will have.

The itching could be the excess vitamin A you mentioned above - perhaps get that tested. @youngsinatra has written about vitamin A toxicity recently look at this post.

Giving up smoking can be tough but believe me one day you will be able to go through a day without thinking about cigarettes.

Wishing you strength

Hey Pina,

As I type this my face which is normally very oily, is dry and flaky with a constant itch and prickly heat. My mouth is also constantly dry with a metallic taste - I'm thinking this is from the magnesium I've been taking. Is there any way to rectify this before I go completely supp free? I was thinking maybe Potassium but everythings o tentative right now. Ideally it would fix itself. There has actually been some foam/bubbles in urine but based on some googling, nothing alarming just yet. Could just be paranoia also.

I tried reading through a little of her posts, I saw something about an issue with Niacin regulation also? Sorry I'm still very much an amateur of biochemistry compared to most of you on the forum. I can feel the tobacco making things worse with literally every one I smoke, but convince myself otherwise - I was going to wait until Friday to quit because I have some business to attend to but even typing that out is ridiculous - I'm going to quit immediately. Really look forward to the day I don't think about smoking haha.

I bolded the part you wrote about coffee - I remember the exact moment the pain and pressure in my back/side/kidneys started - I was 2-3 weeks out from the nitro and drinking 2 black coffees with sugar (and a large meal) for the first time in three years. I'm thinking this somehow triggered something?

A thought regarding nicotine/tobacco smoke. I've been thinking a lot about this and I'm so glad you wrote about how damaging it is - as weird as it sounds I've just been needing someone to say look, this is what smoking is doing to you without the usual mainstream schpeel. The addict mind just disregards all of that. I can definitely feel the nerve damage - I actually started smoking at 18-21. Soon as I came back home from university I quit entirely. However I'd lost something like 60% of my hair (Dengue fever in 2016 took care of the rest). I should've known then how damaging it was. Then three years ago, I started smoking again and just like that, my health has continued to crash ever since. Sometimes I wonder if mitochondrial function has an impact on the degree and speed to which cig smoking has on individuals - I've been reading about the differences between maternal mitochondrial haplogroup function between ethnic groups but I'm not clued up enough like most of you are to be able to make any conclusions from it. Anyway maybe I should make a new thread about this when I'm hopefully feeling better, please let me know if you're interested.

Apologies for the wall of text.

I second this completely. You sound very overwhelmed. Start with one thing at a time and paramount is your diet. Your liver definitely needs protein to help with everything you're describing, and animal sources of protein are going to give you some of the B-vitamins and amino acids your body needs for the detox process. You didn't say much about your diet, but are you getting good nutrition? I don't see supplements as nutrition, and like I said before, I've only seen people get in a lot of trouble trying out-supplement their life.

I say take it one step at a time and we can definitely help you with your diet. Don't be too hard on yourself about the smoking, I think if you start eating a bit better and balance your nutrient intake, you may feel you have the energy and mental capacity to cut the smoking!

Hi shanny,

I am indeed overwhelmed lol. I have a thread detailing everything prior to the symptoms described in this thread, I'll have to find it but typical stuff associated with gut bacteria but to an alarming degree - my quality of life this last 2 years went from a solid 9 to around a 3 I'd say. I can no longer workout, one of my few joys and distractions. Ah yeah sorry I forgot to outline my diet - tbh its been quite peaty since before I even started feeling sick. Minimum to no PUFA, dinner is always cooked in coconut oil or ghee and butter at breakfast. Plenty milk, eggs, sugar, salt. Plenty of red meat and chicken wings. White rice and white flour chappatis. I used to eat a lot of african yams, cassava, sorghum and millet (mainly for the supposed androgenic qualities) but haven't had anything like that in 18 months as they were definitely making me feel worse not to mention the soaking and fermenting they require definitely exacerbated any bacteria.

Supplementing has definitely impacted me badly but it was at the time, the only way to function. I really should try find my original posts to give yall a better idea, without aspirin and k2 the nausea and gastrointestinal symptoms were debilitating. After reaching baseline and quitting cigarettes for at least a month, I really wanna try the GI Phage probiotics as recommend mrchibbs - the bliss I feel after antibiotics (but not penicillin for some reason) has to have an association with gut bacteria right? It feels like right now obviously it isn't just the bacteria but a host of other things. Feels like I'm climbing a mountain only to find another right behind it. My sisters deterioration has no end in sight, even as I type this she's doing the most crazy ***t and won't listen/let me help her. So the stress lays on my heavy. Sorry to vent like this!

It sounds to me like you have a several things going on, a possible fungal infection and some nutritional imbalances/deficiencies.

White spots on nails: Causes, prevention, and treatment

White spots on nails is also known as leukonychia, but what are they? What causes them, how can white spots be treated, and can they be prevented? We look at all the causes here, including physical damage and medical conditions, help you find out what to do about white spots on the nails, and...

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Black Toenail: Causes, Treatments, and More

Black toenails are attributed to a variety of causes, some of which resolve on their own. If your nail doesn't get better, you'll need to see your doctor.

www.healthline.com

Ahh, this sounds like even more things to worry about. I'll have to see my GP if the toe doesn't get better, it can't be a coincidence that it occurred during this period of symptoms and water retention. Thank you.

 

[Hairfedup]

I truly think my sister is going to be the death of me before the year is up. No one else seems to care or want to intervene - its just me, her and her delusions day in day out. She almost just gave me a heart attack. What is the point of healing myself when the stress will just kill me anyway. Sigh. I told her she's killing me. She doesn't seem to care. I'm so done.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Ahh, this sounds like even more things to worry about. I'll have to see my GP if the toe doesn't get better, it can't be a coincidence that it occurred during this period of symptoms and water retention. Thank you.

It could be something or not, but you definetly need to consider all the options.

 

[Peatness]

Are you able to use nicotine patches to help with quitting? I did the cold turkey method but relapsed as my thyroid crashed. Quitting cold turkey is stressful.

A peaty diet has plenty of potassium. Are you dehydrated? Magnesium, smoking, coffee can all contribute to dehydration. The best thing for your body is nourishment from food. Thiamine/b vitamins are important but the work best with good nourishment.

 

[Hairfedup]

Are you able to use nicotine patches to help with quitting? I did the cold turkey method but relapsed as my thyroid crashed. Quitting cold turkey is stressful.

A peaty diet has plenty of potassium. Are you dehydrated? Magnesium, smoking, coffee can all contribute to dehydration. The best thing for your body is nourishment from food. Thiamine/b vitamins are important but the work best with good nourishment.

I've never tried them - I did 3 weeks no smoking in the summer and was able to keep my thyroid happy with some ice cream before bed and slathering myself with shea butter (stearic acid keeps the thyroid going right?). But I might have to try the patch as it seems harder than ever to quit atm. Everyday I say this is it, then find myself smoking after breakfast lol. I think I'm definitely dehydrated - coconut water seems to be the only thing that helps but the next day I'm back to this dehydrated state. Really shouldn't have supplemented magnesium :/

Nourishment is everything but I genuinely think my diet is very good - its just the cigarettes and likely gut bacteria left. I'll try again tomorrow with the cessation.

 

[Peatness]

Putting off giving up is part of the process of giving up. You will get there. Some people find oranges helps – not sure why this is. Good luck

 

[Hairfedup]

Putting off giving up is part of the process of giving up. You will get there. Some people find oranges helps – not sure why this is. Good luck

Thank you!

 

[liam183]

Protein (especially glycine/collagen/gelatin) and lymph support (cleavers, dry brushing, cold showers). Also worth adding in salt and potassium.

 

[Phosphor]

Did not read the comments. I had similar symptoms when my house developed a leak in a pipe inside a wall and started growing odor-less toxic mold (wallemia, in my case.) Doctors had NO CLUE what was happening and I did a myriad of things trying to fix myself before I found out (on the internet of course) what the cause was. It damn near killed me, and did kill both my cats. It could be any toxin you are exposed to, or perhaps you have EHS, or both....for the mold, you can get the very best test there is (better than the "pro" air tests, which don't even look for that particular mold) and it's called the HERTSMI-2. $155, you do it yourself and send it to the lab. mycometrics.com Best of luck and I hope it is that simple.