Anything That Lowers Adrenaline But DOESN'T Lower Cortisol?

[marsaday]

I have no idea if these are good or bad as i need the ranges. In the UK FT4 and 3 is in pmol/l and the range for T4 is 10-22 and 3.5-6.5 for T3. So your T4 and T3 frees would be very low in the UK

 

[firebreather]

I have no idea if these are good or bad as i need the ranges. In the UK FT4 and 3 is in pmol/l and the range for T4 is 10-22 and 3.5-6.5 for T3. So your T4 and T3 frees would be very low in the UK

My bad, here ya go

Reference range in parenthesis

t4 free .92 (0.82 - 1.77)
t3 free 3.1 (2.0 - 4.4)
TSH - .11 (.27 - 4.2)
T4 - 5.6 (4.5 - 11.7)
T3 - 129 (80-200)

Thanks again for your input on all this

 

[marsaday]

You have lower levels of T4 and higher T3 levels, which is typical for NTH.

TSH is low as well and is normal when using NTH.

Total T4 is low and i would like to see the tank filled up a little more than this. It is just to low even when using NTH.

Total T3 is actually below 50% in the range. You are at 129 and the 50% mark is 140. So this is also low, even though it is higher relative to T4

The Free T4 is low as well and this could well come up.

The free T3 is also lower than the 50% mark at 3.1. 5-% = 3.2

So i would say you are actually under medicated on 3 grains.

How much do you weigh ? Are you a large person ? You body looks like it needs more hormone to sustain it.

I imagine you were well under medicated when on T4 / T3 also.

 

[firebreather]

You have lower levels of T4 and higher T3 levels, which is typical for NTH.

TSH is low as well and is normal when using NTH.

Total T4 is low and i would like to see the tank filled up a little more than this. It is just to low even when using NTH.

Total T3 is actually below 50% in the range. You are at 129 and the 50% mark is 140. So this is also low, even though it is higher relative to T4

The Free T4 is low as well and this could well come up.

The free T3 is also lower than the 50% mark at 3.1. 5-% = 3.2

So i would say you are actually under medicated on 3 grains.

How much do you weigh ? Are you a large person ? You body looks like it needs more hormone to sustain it.

I imagine you were well under medicated when on T4 / T3 also.

I'm 6' tall, about 215 pounds.

So I want to medicate to get my t4 to the upper range and my t3 above 50% of the range?

 

[marsaday]

Yes, but NTH means T4 is harder to rise, but over all your T4 and T3 are to low.

T4 dosing is recommended to be 1.8mcg per kg of body weight, but the amount can be a little lower with some doctors. You weight 98kg's, so you are big.

So taking the 1,8mcg figure x 98kg = 176.4mcg T4. So your recommended replacement using T4 only would be around 175mcg. Now this is just a rough guide. I weight 80kg and could be taking 144 T4 (or 150 in reality), but i happily use 125T4. Some people need much more. It is not totally weight dependant, but it helps give you an idea about dosing.

You take 108 T4 and 27 T3 in your 3 grains. Some may say this is roughly = to 175 T4 only. It is hard to say, but from your result you look under medicated.

I just don't like using NTH as you cannot work up your own simple dose ratio, it just seems to complicate things. But i would certainly look at using more NTH if you are going to stick with it. I would try a 1/2 grain increase and hold for 4 weeks. These increases must be done slowly to give the body time to adapt. Many people rush things and they **** their system up.

If you were taking T4/T3 i would think a 150 T4 dose and 12.5 T3 dose would be a good place to work from and then get bloods done. Based on what these say i would up the T4 or up the T3. It would be easier to use T4/T3 as you would eventually settle on a fixed T4 amount and then just adjust things with the T3 to really help fine tune things. there are other variables and this is the problem with getting on top of thyroid issues, but if you can settle on one variable (the T4) and don't change this it is easier to adjust the other variables (namely T3, but you can also class the timing of the dose as a variable, vitamin D levels, B12 levels, iron levels and obviously cortisol levels).

 

[firebreather]

Yes, but NTH means T4 is harder to rise, but over all your T4 and T3 are to low.

T4 dosing is recommended to be 1.8mcg per kg of body weight, but the amount can be a little lower with some doctors. You weight 98kg's, so you are big.

So taking the 1,8mcg figure x 98kg = 176.4mcg T4. So your recommended replacement using T4 only would be around 175mcg. Now this is just a rough guide. I weight 80kg and could be taking 144 T4 (or 150 in reality), but i happily use 125T4. Some people need much more. It is not totally weight dependant, but it helps give you an idea about dosing.

You take 108 T4 and 27 T3 in your 3 grains. Some may say this is roughly = to 175 T4 only. It is hard to say, but from your result you look under medicated.

I just don't like using NTH as you cannot work up your own simple dose ratio, it just seems to complicate things. But i would certainly look at using more NTH if you are going to stick with it. I would try a 1/2 grain increase and hold for 4 weeks. These increases must be done slowly to give the body time to adapt. Many people rush things and they **** their system up.

If you were taking T4/T3 i would think a 150 T4 dose and 12.5 T3 dose would be a good place to work from and then get bloods done. Based on what these say i would up the T4 or up the T3. It would be easier to use T4/T3 as you would eventually settle on a fixed T4 amount and then just adjust things with the T3 to really help fine tune things. there are other variables and this is the problem with getting on top of thyroid issues, but if you can settle on one variable (the T4) and don't change this it is easier to adjust the other variables (namely T3, but you can also class the timing of the dose as a variable, vitamin D levels, B12 levels, iron levels and obviously cortisol levels).

Very interesting.

I'm certainly open to trying t4/t3 again but there's not doctor around here that would prescribe that much for me. I'm able to get the NTH from Thailand without a prescription.

You mentioned that t3 can be bought from mexico. Is T4 also available? Seems like I looked about 6 months ago but couldn't find a website selling t4 that I deemed reliable.

 

[marsaday]

T4 and T3 can be sourced online. I don't have any sources myself, but the stop the thyroid madness Facebook group may help. They are very pro NTH though, so most people may be using that. Worth checking out some thyroid forums in the USA to ask where people get their meds from.

 

[firebreather]

@marsaday

I just finished reading Dr Blanchard's book. It's pretty good, makes a lot of sense.

I'm curious though about your views on dosages.

He seems to think a much lower t3 dose is appropriate and a lower t4 dose than the formula that you mentioned.

Not need for NDT anymore, i found a two good sources for t4 and t3.

I've got some t3 and t4 left from some prescriptions so I'll be using that till the other stuff comes in.

Thanks so much for all your input on this

 

[marsaday]

Hello Fire

I think he believes in a 98:2 ratio of T4 to T3.

So for every 100 T4 you take 2mcg T3.

Not sure if he uses lower T4 doses though - i may need to read it again.

I think the best way to go about finding the correct dose is to use T4 only for a bit to get you into the middle of the range (maybe upper third). And also see the TSH around the 1 level.

For me on 125 T4 my TSH is 0.3 (bottom of the range but still good) and my Ft4 is 19 (10-22 range in UK). So this is good as well, but i think anywhere from 16-19 is good for the FT4.

Once you have found a dose which gives you these basic baselines (you will need a blood test to get the new TSH, FT4 and FT3 numbers), then i would look at adding in the small dose of T3. See how 1/8th of a 25mcg tablet goes. This will be approx 3mcg. This is all i use.

While getting the body used to the new T4 medication it is good practise to make sure Vitamin D and B12 are in a good place as well, plus experiment with taking the T4 at bedtime. It gives a much better result. I now take my 3mcg T3 at bedtime as well and i can tell there is a difference from morning dosing. I have always taken the T4 at bedtime as i discovered ages ago it is much better taken at this time.

As to how much T4 to use, well it is dependant on weight and size to some extent. I said you may want to be looking at using 175 T4. But i would say always start lower as this is always the best option with any thyroid hormone. So a good starting point is probably 125mcg.

 

[lampofred]

Salt.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that in 3 pages lol.

 

[firebreather]

Salt.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that in 3 pages lol.

I use salt like it's going out of style.

I'm having good results by lowering my liquid intake and hopefully marsaday's input will help

 

[firebreather]

Hello Fire

I think he believes in a 98:2 ratio of T4 to T3.

So for every 100 T4 you take 2mcg T3.

Not sure if he uses lower T4 doses though - i may need to read it again.

I think the best way to go about finding the correct dose is to use T4 only for a bit to get you into the middle of the range (maybe upper third). And also see the TSH around the 1 level.

For me on 125 T4 my TSH is 0.3 (bottom of the range but still good) and my Ft4 is 19 (10-22 range in UK). So this is good as well, but i think anywhere from 16-19 is good for the FT4.

Once you have found a dose which gives you these basic baselines (you will need a blood test to get the new TSH, FT4 and FT3 numbers), then i would look at adding in the small dose of T3. See how 1/8th of a 25mcg tablet goes. This will be approx 3mcg. This is all i use.

While getting the body used to the new T4 medication it is good practise to make sure Vitamin D and B12 are in a good place as well, plus experiment with taking the T4 at bedtime. It gives a much better result. I now take my 3mcg T3 at bedtime as well and i can tell there is a difference from morning dosing. I have always taken the T4 at bedtime as i discovered ages ago it is much better taken at this time.

As to how much T4 to use, well it is dependant on weight and size to some extent. I said you may want to be looking at using 175 T4. But i would say always start lower as this is always the best option with any thyroid hormone. So a good starting point is probably 125mcg.

That makes a lot of sense.

Right now I'm doing 50mcg of t4 and I'll use that until those pills run out then I'll cut these new 150mcg pills in half.

Thanks so much for all your great input

 

[Frankdee20]

here you go this might work
TAURINE
Taurine info (Liver Flush Support Forum) 4/10/2006 178258

Taurine may lower Adrenaline, and although no mention of it lowering Cortisol, I do think it runs through sugar reserves easily.

 

[Lokzo]

If you're concerned about crashing your cortisol (I have the same issue), then just use Adrenal Cortex by Thourne. Seems to really help.

 

[Frankdee20]

If you're concerned about crashing your cortisol (I have the same issue), then just use Adrenal Cortex by Thourne. Seems to really help.

So those glandulars - specifically the adrenal one, but even Thyroid one - cause overstimulation ? Or is boosting Cortisol more of a blood sugar stabilization type of thing ? I suspect mine tanks from Aspirin.

 

[firebreather]

If you're concerned about crashing your cortisol (I have the same issue), then just use Adrenal Cortex by Thourne. Seems to really help.

Tried it, never did a thing for me accept suck my $$

 

[Lokzo]

So those glandulars - specifically the adrenal one, but even Thyroid one - cause overstimulation ? Or is boosting Cortisol more of a blood sugar stabilization type of thing ? I suspect mine tanks from Aspirin.

I find it really helps when my cortisol has absolutely CRASHED. It really does help me stabilise my blood pressure levels and salt cravings...

It is stimulating - I like using it before morning runs - it definitely gives me better energy and endurance.

I am not even sure if it contains cortisol or has a cortisol sparing effect?

I don't need to use it all the time as well, just whenever I crash my cortisol like using Curcumin and other anti-cortisol herbs.

 

[ddjd]

Paul does 4h's before wake up i think. He recommends starting out not so far away from waking because the effect can be strong. So the timing is also like the amount you take. So a lot of T3 and a long time before wake up is going to be a strong effect. But he is taking 25mcg T3, so he has a lot of T3 and takes it quite early.

The important thing is to understand the principals and then work with them and adjust as you see what works best.

You could maybe try just 2h's before wake up, but it is upto you. But you are correct you have to start from your actual wake up time and work backwards.

What ever you try you will need to stick with it for a period of time. I would say 2 weeks at least and then you can mess with the timing or the dose. I jumped in with 4h's but only use around 6.25 T3 per day, so my dose is low. On one grain you would be using 9mcg. This is still a lowish dose.

Hopefully you will be able to notice some differences. I did this a few yrs ago and i think it helped and i actually had a saliva test done after i tried it as had one booked. My cortisol really spiked compared to not doing it, so it does work. However i stopped doing it after a few weeks because i didn't notice many benefits. The issue then is that i was not in tune with my body and i have subsequently become much more aware of what does what to my system. So now i can see it produces really good results.

I'm looking into Paul Robinson's ct3m protocol at the moment and my worry is I can't see how I would get back to sleep after taking t3, it makes me way too alert. Does that mean my cortisol is too high?

 

[Fexxx]

MSM helps with low Cortisol

 

[marsaday]

T3 makes you alert when ever you take it ? This means you are working well. What dose do you take ?

Really you should look at using a smaller dose if it is over stimulating you. 2.5mcg is a good trialing dose to start with.