T3 Causing Insomnia. Cortisol (Prednisone) Helps Me Get To Sleep. What's Going On?

[ecstatichamster]

So investing in b complex is what you’re implying?

I think it can help. B1 increases CO2 in the body.

 

[nbznj]

If one is a chronically low serotonin, high dopamine type and is thus capable of producing a lot of adrenaline, T3 doesn’t sound like a wonderful drug at all. Relaxation, yoga, glycine and dairy for the BCAAs, fruits and starches, low intensity bodybuilding, moderate protein overall and low fat should be the prescription. You want to avoid stressing those guys and if they’re stressed because of factors that are out of control (or can’t afford a yoga studio) well, increase serotonin via dieting accordingly ie. more and more carbs. I’ve met many people like that. McDougall seems to think that all humans are like that but he’s obviously wrong.

Peat seems to think that every human should be the moderate/high serotonin, low dopamine and adrenaline, neural type athlete. Those do great on T3, tyrosine as well ofc, retarded intense workouts definitely not boring stuff, high protein but not BCAAs, moderate carbs and fats. You want to stress those guys hard, challenge them all day, so that serotonin reuptake happens and becomes beneficial > only way to get a good night of sleep at least in my experience. Promethease calls this the “hunter gatherer” type and that seems to be who we used to be. That being said and I’d love to be wrong but Peat’s style of writing seems to negate the impact of people’s environments on their specific brain chemistry. Give an SSRI to someone like me I’ll be awake for 72 hours full manic. Give Wellbutrin to the former type watch them sleep all day.

We’ve evolved quite a bit in the last 50-500k years and that’s what current advances in genetics show. Different strokes different folks, folks.

 

[Antonello]

root cause is low sodium and low copper

 

[ddjd]

I don’t believe this theory about “t3 needs sufficient cortisol.”

but you said above "I’ve observed people who are highly stressed out, when they start T3, can be very low in stress hormones." - suggesting that the stress hormones are somehow necessary for t3 to function properly.

What is happening is, cholesterol and steroidogenesis is insufficient for downstream hormone production. If your cholesterol is not good and high, that will be a stress on the body. Pregnenolone takes the place of cholesterol.

@Jon do you also think pregnenolone stops insomnia from t3 because it's replacing a lack of cholesterol?

I presumed my chronically very high LDL tended to mean I wasn't short of cholesterol, but maybe that's my issue.

 

[tara]

Could it be straight forward energy deficiency at night?
Supplementing T3 > raising metabolism > burning through fuel faster (evidenced by losing weight) > stress hormones up at night to sustain blood sugars > sleeplessness.
Potential ways to ameliorate: reduce T3 dose, eat more food, maybe split T3 dose through day so it stays more even (short half-life).

 

[Gabriel Dell]

I think Progesterone could help

 

[Jon]

but you said above "I’ve observed people who are highly stressed out, when they start T3, can be very low in stress hormones." - suggesting that the stress hormones are somehow necessary for t3 to function properly.


@Jon do you also think pregnenolone stops insomnia from t3 because it's replacing a lack of cholesterol?

I presumed my chronically very high LDL tended to mean I wasn't short of cholesterol, but maybe that's my issue.

No I don’t really think that’s what’s happening. Pregnenolone is kind of like the “blank slate” of hormones. It can be converted into basically whatever the body needs (hormonally) BUT I believe it has less of a tendency to convert to estrogens and stress hormones or interfere with androgens, unlike progesterone. I think it helps with insomnia by resupplying the adrenals with materials to synthesize more cortisol (which a lack of can often be the cause of insomnia which occurs by way of a reverse cortisol circadian rhythm) and can this help return cortisol release to a proper circadian rhythm. High LDL can be a sign you’re eating too much refined sugar.

 

[baccheion]

No I don’t really think that’s what’s happening. Pregnenolone is kind of like the “blank slate” of hormones. It can be converted into basically whatever the body needs (hormonally) BUT I believe it has less of a tendency to convert to estrogens and stress hormones or interfere with androgens, unlike progesterone. I think it helps with insomnia by resupplying the adrenals with materials to synthesize more cortisol (which a lack of can often be the cause of insomnia which occurs by way of a reverse cortisol circadian rhythm) and can this help return cortisol release to a proper circadian rhythm. High LDL can be a sign you’re eating too much refined sugar.

Have you ever run any labs to verify/observe effects of pregnenolone? How much pregnenolone was taken (and with what else)?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I’m taking 300mg of pregnenolone a day along with T3, and 1000mg of thiamine. It seems to be helpful in reducing muscle aches and pains, finally.

 

[ddjd]

I think it helps with insomnia by resupplying the adrenals with materials to synthesize more cortisol (which a lack of can often be the cause of insomnia which occurs by way of a reverse cortisol circadian rhythm) and can this help return cortisol release to a proper circadian rhythm.

i think you're spot on with this comment

 

[Peater Pan]

root cause is low sodium and low copper

This struck me because I'm mega hypo and probably got there via raw, low sodium and used to take tons of zinc. I bet there's a connection between low sodium days and high cortisol/sleep quality nights. I need liver, and maybe copper supps?

 

[Peater Pan]

According to Paul Robinson who started the CT3M protocol and has helped thousands of people with thyroid disorders, the insomnia is caused by high adrenaline. He says t3 needs sufficient cortisol, and when cortisol levels are lacking, adrenaline increases and causes heart palpitations and insomnia etc. the fact that prednisone, pregnenolone and adrenal cortex all stop the insomnia and heart palpitations for me would vindicate his theory

Just received Recovering w/T3 and The Thyroid Patient's Manual. Desperate to feel human again.

 

[Peater Pan]

Paul explains in his books the incessant palpitations are caused by high adrenaline. ive tried well known anti adrenaline peat suggestions like taurine, zinc, inosine, they all work to stop the palpitations from t3, confirming for me that it is just an adrenaline issue

Does zinc in the PM mess w/your sleep?

 

[Peater Pan]

I think Progesterone could help

Advice on dose/timing?

 

[Peater Pan]

I’m taking 300mg of pregnenolone a day along with T3, and 1000mg of thiamine. It seems to be helpful in reducing muscle aches and pains, finally.

Still taking that much daily Preg?

 

[tallglass13]

Guys I think we always forget that Ray has said things about balance. I wish I could find quotes about Ray when he says that progesterone compliments estrogen. We always think of estrogen as completely bad but Ray has even said that it's essential for certain things up to a point. The same thing with cortisol it complements thyroid. You have to have good cortisol levels to have good thyroid levels, they mirror each other. Nothing is bad in our body, otherwise it wouldn't be there. It's about balance and we want more progesterone to cortisol ratio, testosterone to estrogen ratio, and progesterone estrogen ratio, . Good thyroid function makes more youthful steroids. one person I know took too much t3 and almost had a heart attack. Because they didn't listen and take pregnealone progesterone with it to make more cortisol.
Progesterone makes cortisol. when there is enough cortisol then progesterone can stack up. Ray Peat told Danny Roddy that the hormone tree is like a rope where if you need something you get more slack, but when there's enough it will even out.
Stress will use up cortisol, which ultimately uses up progesterone. So by supplementing progesterone we make more cortisol to fill up our adrenal system. Then progesterone doesn't need to go to cortisol anymore and will do the progesterone things.

 

[Peater Pan]

Guys I think we always forget that Ray has said things about balance. I wish I could find quotes about Ray when he says that progesterone compliments estrogen. We always think of estrogen as completely bad but Ray has even said that it's essential for certain things up to a point. The same thing with cortisol it complements thyroid. You have to have good cortisol levels to have good thyroid levels, they mirror each other. Nothing is bad in our body, otherwise it wouldn't be there. It's about balance and we want more progesterone to cortisol ratio, testosterone to estrogen ratio, and progesterone estrogen ratio, . Good thyroid function makes more youthful steroids. one person I know took too much t3 and almost had a heart attack. Because they didn't listen and take pregnealone progesterone with it to make more cortisol.
Progesterone makes cortisol. when there is enough cortisol then progesterone can stack up. Ray Peat told Danny Roddy that the hormone tree is like a rope where if you need something you get more slack, but when there's enough it will even out.
Stress will use up cortisol, which ultimately uses up progesterone. So by supplementing progesterone we make more cortisol to fill up our adrenal system. Then progesterone doesn't need to go to cortisol anymore and will do the progesterone things.

Thank you. Considering progesterone or an adrenal glandular because I've stopped responding to thyroid and pregnenolone seems to be going to estrogen? Super hypo, lipids rising, belly fat/gyno., maybe glucose issues (Bs?)…

 

[Vileplume]

Thank you. Considering progesterone or an adrenal glandular because I've stopped responding to thyroid and pregnenolone seems to be going to estrogen? Super hypo, lipids rising, belly fat/gyno., maybe glucose issues (Bs?)…

Did you ever try progesterone? Thyroid stops working for me after a few days as well, and it starts causing stress response.

My stress hormones have been out of whack for years before this (frequent panic attacks, especially in the morning, insomnia) and I’d love to safely support my adrenals. In these email exchanges on cortisol ray mentions pregnenolone, but says that progesterone would more directly ameliorate adrenal damage.

Also @ecstatichamster would love to know if you’re still taking pregnenolone, as I’ve read of your recent success with thyroid.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

Maybe not enough CO2 produced because of too much Thyroid? Something like this and afterwords bag breathing or BB "with hands" ( until forehead is sweaty or you feel a gentle pressure from behind your forehead ) will effectively increase blood CO2, try this and see if it helps.

 

[Peater Pan]

Did you ever try progesterone? Thyroid stops working for me after a few days as well, and it starts causing stress response.

My stress hormones have been out of whack for years before this (frequent panic attacks, especially in the morning, insomnia) and I’d love to safely support my adrenals. In these email exchanges on cortisol ray mentions pregnenolone, but says that progesterone would more directly ameliorate adrenal damage.

Also @ecstatichamster would love to know if you’re still taking pregnenolone, as I’ve read of your recent success with thyroid.

I recently used large topical, and some oral, doses (Progest-e/50-150 mg) for several days after a bad back/disc injury/flare. It's analgesic and helped w/pain, sleep and also bumped temp a bit. I've discontinued to normalize levels and will probably reintroduce small oral doses (3-6mg/day) with 1/3rd the amount DHEA in a couple months.