T3 Causing Insomnia. Cortisol (Prednisone) Helps Me Get To Sleep. What's Going On?

ddjd

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As the title says, I've been experimenting with taking T3 (5 mcg-15mcg) first thing in the morning for 3 straight days.

I've noticed it's only when I take T3 first thing in the morning that I get the benefits - flatter stomach, weight loss, productive, calmer, positive feeling etc.

If I take T3 after lunch or dinner, particular dairy rich food, I just blow up ; estrogenic symptomns, frequent urination, gynecomastia worse, I've discussed it in a separate thread. I've read calcium can block thyroid absorption so perhaps that's the reason. First thing in the morning I only have some honey or fruit before the T3 so calcium levels must be low.

Anyway my sleep got progressively worse over the 3 days of the experiment, until last night NOTHING would work to get me to sleep. Nothing. It's like my brain just won't switch off.

At 5am after trying all my usual sleep supplements, like taurine, glycine, I remembered one time previously Adrenal Cortex 50mg (cortisol!) helped me sleep. Within 20 minutes I felt my whole body and brain relax and I drifted off. What the heck is going on??

I wanted to test whether it's definitely the cortisol helping me sleep, I had some Prednisone lying around, today I took 25mg and I fell asleep despite just taking T3! I've NEVER slept before after taking t3.

I don't understand the HPA axis /w glucocorticoid system well enough to wrap my head around this.

Is it possible I have low free cortisol and maybe very high ACTH levels causing the insomnia, made worse by T3 increasing ACTH?? Apparently Prednisone and Adrenal Cortex reduce ACTH.
 

sladerunner69

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Taking thyroid can prevent me from being able to relax as well. I'm not sure why, because Peat himself has said that thyroid needs be high for muscles to be able to fully and properly relax.
 
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I know sometimes a bit of prednisone for a week or two can help someone transition to not needing it. Have you ever done bag breathing? This can help tremendously.

I’ve observed people who are highly stressed out, when they start T3, can be very low in stress hormones. Dr. Peat doesn’t believe in “adrenal burnout” exactly but this is what it seems to be, for lack of a better term.

25mg is a lot. I would rather see if you could try 5mg or so, and taper down to not needing any at all.
 

baccheion

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I have been having a similar reaction (using iodine not T3) and I'm not sure why.

Cortisol is associated with increased estrogen and insulin. More insulin = lower SHBG. Also, some cortisol is needed for uptake of thyroid hormone by cells IIRC. Cortisol also opposes conversion of T4 to T3.
 

Orion

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T3 is like pushing the gas pedal, you burn more fuel. Cortisol turns protein into sugar, giving more you fuel.

T3 would always give me bad insomnia.
 

Jon

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Pretty sure Ray always suggests to use some T4 with t3 or use a compounded formula of t3/T4 for the exact reason your having issues with. I’ve heard pregnenalone can help with the rise in anxiety and insomnia, but I’m always hesitant to suggest people try more hormones to compensate for other hormones. Either way you should really get a handle on that, insomnia is a sign there’s an over abundance of something and the worry with t3 is possible heart damage. A Conservative approach to any substance is always the smartest choice.
 

Antonello

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@ddjd Have you tried the other way around? Adrenal glandular first thing in the morning and a tiny T4/T3 before bed mimics a healthy circadian cortisol rhythm.
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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I know sometimes a bit of prednisone for a week or two can help someone transition to not needing it. Have you ever done bag breathing? This can help tremendously.

I’ve observed people who are highly stressed out, when they start T3, can be very low in stress hormones. Dr. Peat doesn’t believe in “adrenal burnout” exactly but this is what it seems to be, for lack of a better term.

25mg is a lot. I would rather see if you could try 5mg or so, and taper down to not needing any at all.
as @Jon mentioned, ive actually found that 100mg pregnenolone also stops the insomnia from t3. the fact that prednisone and adrenal cortex are the only two other things seems to suggest, that pregnenolone is also raising cortisol and thats why it helps.
According to Paul Robinson who started the CT3M protocol and has helped thousands of people with thyroid disorders, the insomnia is caused by high adrenaline. He says t3 needs sufficient cortisol, and when cortisol levels are lacking, adrenaline increases and causes heart palpitations and insomnia etc. the fact that prednisone, pregnenolone and adrenal cortex all stop the insomnia and heart palpitations for me would vindicate his theory
I have been having a similar reaction (using iodine not T3) and I'm not sure why.

Cortisol is associated with increased estrogen and insulin. More insulin = lower SHBG. Also, some cortisol is needed for uptake of thyroid hormone by cells IIRC. Cortisol also opposes conversion of T4 to T3.
interesting you mention iodine because lugols iodine actually sends me to sleep!
Pretty sure Ray always suggests to use some T4 with t3 or use a compounded formula of t3/T4 for the exact reason your having issues with. I’ve heard pregnenalone can help with the rise in anxiety and insomnia, but I’m always hesitant to suggest people try more hormones to compensate for other hormones. Either way you should really get a handle on that, insomnia is a sign there’s an over abundance of something and the worry with t3 is possible heart damage. A Conservative approach to any substance is always the smartest choice.
just read this article with regards to supposed heart damage
A Follow-Up to the Blog Post - Physiological Replacement Therapy with T3 is Beneficial in Ischemic Heart Disease | Recovering with T3
 

baccheion

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as @Jon mentioned, ive actually found that 100mg pregnenolone also stops the insomnia from t3. the fact that prednisone and adrenal cortex are the only two other things seems to suggest, that pregnenolone is also raising cortisol and thats why it helps.
According to Paul Robinson who started the CT3M protocol and has helped thousands of people with thyroid disorders, the insomnia is caused by high adrenaline. He says t3 needs sufficient cortisol, and when cortisol levels are lacking, adrenaline increases and causes heart palpitations and insomnia etc. the fact that prednisone, pregnenolone and adrenal cortex all stop the insomnia and heart palpitations for me would vindicate his theory

interesting you mention iodine because lugols iodine actually sends me to sleep!

just read this article with regards to supposed heart damage
A Follow-Up to the Blog Post - Physiological Replacement Therapy with T3 is Beneficial in Ischemic Heart Disease | Recovering with T3
That's the expected reaction to higher amounts of iodine. Some take it before bed. It could also be due to detox. IIRC, thyroid hormone should also cause a similar reaction.
 
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as @Jon mentioned, ive actually found that 100mg pregnenolone also stops the insomnia from t3. the fact that prednisone and adrenal cortex are the only two other things seems to suggest, that pregnenolone is also raising cortisol and thats why it helps.
According to Paul Robinson who started the CT3M protocol and has helped thousands of people with thyroid disorders, the insomnia is caused by high adrenaline. He says t3 needs sufficient cortisol, and when cortisol levels are lacking, adrenaline increases and causes heart palpitations and insomnia etc. the fact that prednisone, pregnenolone and adrenal cortex all stop the insomnia and heart palpitations for me would vindicate his theory

interesting you mention iodine because lugols iodine actually sends me to sleep!

just read this article with regards to supposed heart damage
A Follow-Up to the Blog Post - Physiological Replacement Therapy with T3 is Beneficial in Ischemic Heart Disease | Recovering with T3

I don’t believe this theory about “t3 needs sufficient cortisol.”

What is happening is, cholesterol and steroidogenesis is insufficient for downstream hormone production. If your cholesterol is not good and high, that will be a stress on the body. Pregnenolone takes the place of cholesterol.

I would imagine that if you eat sufficient fructose, your body can generate cholesterol and make more steroidogenesis enzymes, and insomnia won’t be a problem.

The guys who I helped who needed cortisone were in bad shape for a long time.
 

nbznj

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A normal replacement dose is 25-37.5mcg of T3. Did any of you guys run a blood test before even supplementing it? You need to know your TSH, free T4 and T3 and if possible measure reverse T3 before ever touching thyroid meds (or giving potentially bad advices without the aforementioned information)
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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What is happening is, cholesterol and steroidogenesis is insufficient for downstream hormone production. If your cholesterol is not good and high, that will be a stress on the body. Pregnenolone takes the place of cholesterol.
not to piss on your theory but every LDL test ive had for the last 10 years has come back as over 200, doctors telling me its dangerously high. cholesterol is something im definitely not short on.
 

baccheion

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not to piss on your theory but every LDL test ive had for the last 10 years has come back as over 200, doctors telling me its dangerously high. cholesterol is something im definitely not short on.
What about vitamin A? A, T3, and (sun)light are the main cofactors involved in the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone.
 
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not to piss on your theory but every LDL test ive had for the last 10 years has come back as over 200, doctors telling me its dangerously high. cholesterol is something im definitely not short on.

i'm not sure about that. I don't know that LDL is what we're talking about.

And the enzymes to convert to downstream steroid hormones may be deficient.
 

Jon

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as @Jon mentioned, ive actually found that 100mg pregnenolone also stops the insomnia from t3. the fact that prednisone and adrenal cortex are the only two other things seems to suggest, that pregnenolone is also raising cortisol and thats why it helps.
According to Paul Robinson who started the CT3M protocol and has helped thousands of people with thyroid disorders, the insomnia is caused by high adrenaline. He says t3 needs sufficient cortisol, and when cortisol levels are lacking, adrenaline increases and causes heart palpitations and insomnia etc. the fact that prednisone, pregnenolone and adrenal cortex all stop the insomnia and heart palpitations for me would vindicate his theory

interesting you mention iodine because lugols iodine actually sends me to sleep!

just read this article with regards to supposed heart damage
A Follow-Up to the Blog Post - Physiological Replacement Therapy with T3 is Beneficial in Ischemic Heart Disease | Recovering with T3

I don’t doubt it can help in specific heart conditions, but I also think it requires very careful application in specific circumstances. There are a couple different threads on members getting incestant palpitations from t3 overdose who had lots of trouble ameliorating it. That’s literally the reason doctors fear giving it out.
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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I don’t doubt it can help in specific heart conditions, but I also think it requires very careful application in specific circumstances. There are a couple different threads on members getting incestant palpitations from t3 overdose who had lots of trouble ameliorating it. That’s literally the reason doctors fear giving it out.
Paul explains in his books the incessant palpitations are caused by high adrenaline. ive tried well known anti adrenaline peat suggestions like taurine, zinc, inosine, they all work to stop the palpitations from t3, confirming for me that it is just an adrenaline issue
 
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ddjd

ddjd

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i'm not sure about that. I don't know that LDL is what we're talking about.

And the enzymes to convert to downstream steroid hormones may be deficient.
where can I get more information on enzymes to convert to downstream steroid hormones. never read anything about it in Peatland before
 

Momado965

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You could try cypro for the adrenaline issue. Also, whats your protein intake? Protein is neccessary for thyroid and adrenal health.
 
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where can I get more information on enzymes to convert to downstream steroid hormones. never read anything about it in Peatland before

I think this is why bodyaches happened to me for awhile. I think that the body can only make so much downstream hormones of different types so fast. And when we push it, it can't increase production at all, or at least not quickly.

Dr. Peat once mentioned that when you have a lot of a certain B vitamin, your liver adjusts to it by creating more enzymes for that vitamin, and then won't have so many for other B vitamins. This is just an example though. I think the body needs time to create steroid hormones plus it needs the enzymes and things.
 

Momado965

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You could try cypro for the adrenaline issue.
I think this is why bodyaches happened to me for awhile. I think that the body can only make so much downstream hormones of different types so fast. And when we push it, it can't increase production at all, or at least not quickly.

Dr. Peat once mentioned that when you have a lot of a certain B vitamin, your liver adjusts to it by creating more enzymes for that vitamin, and then won't have so many for other B vitamins. This is just an example though. I think the body needs time to create steroid hormones plus it needs the enzymes and things.

So investing in b complex is what you’re implying?
 

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