My Starch Paradox - Feel Really Good But Terrible Sleep

[ljihkugft7]

I’ve read endlessly on this but I’m still a bit confused.

I did “no starch” for a few months and felt super amazing - my face got less puffy, less water weight, amazing & fast digestion. All round inlove with the results...

BUT I started to struggle sleeping throughout the night? I’ve never had trouble sleeping and literally the only thing that has fixed it is eating a potato before bed.
But it causes me to get puffy and sluggish again? but I really enjoy sleeping haha.
I feel like the other non starchy sugars don’t last as long as potato. I’ve tried ice cream ect but it just doesn’t supply my liver throughout the night like potato?

- Am I missing something?
- Does anyone know why I sleep the whole night with potato but not other sugars?
- Suggestions on how to sleep throughout without starch?

Notes:
27 F 68kg 176cm
2000-2500 calories
Mainly - Milk, eggs, OJ, mushrooms, carrot, gelatin,butter, bone broth, oxtail, liver, white fish, shellfish, oysters, pawpaw, melon, coffee. (Good balance of ca:ph ca:mag ect)

supps - E , k2, Mag bicarb
sometimes pregnenolone

Temp and pulse quite consistent throughout it all
Waking temp: 36.5 rising to +37
Waking pulse: 65 rises to +80

Apologies if this has been asked. I’ve tried to read every comment on every starch post but haven’t been able to figure out why it’s affecting my sleep.

 

[PaRa]

More fat and salt before sleep ?
Enough protein too ?

 

[ljihkugft7]

More fat and salt before sleep ?
Enough protein too ?

Thanks for the advice :)

Ice cream is quite fatty? Or do you mean someThing heavier like butter?
Get tons of salt throughout the day but will definitely try before bed.

I get 100g protein a day?

My thinking is that the potato sugar feeds my liver for longer throughout the night? Or is that logic incorrect?

 

[PaRa]

Whole milk / cheese/ salty meat / honey / fruits would do the job I think

 

[HumanLife]

I think in one of the Danny Roddy podcasts, Danny mentioned that cravings for starch might be cravings for salty foods instead. If your sodium intake decreases with less starch consumption, it follows that sleep is affected too.

 

[Maljam]

@Cleo for some reason some people just don't do well without starch. I am one of those and try as I might in the past to have my carb source being entirely in sugar, I never managed to get it work. I think its important to listen to the body in situations like this.

How have you prepared the potato you eat, is it well boiled?

Have you tried rice, or corn/masa harina?

It is always possible if you have stopped eating starch for months then reintroduced it your body is just going through an adjustment period. Foods that will benefit you long term can sometimes cause issues in the short term. Unfortunately this is very difficult to work out without going through some discomfort and is frustrating.

 

[PxD]

I know you said you're already taking gelatin, but gelatin before bed is good for sleep.

 

[cjm]

I’ve never had trouble sleeping and literally the only thing that has fixed it is eating a potato before bed.

Do you eat the potato with fat? Sour cream, butter, ice cream :) ? (Or were the ice cream and potato separate experiments?)

That's the only thing that comes to mind now, persorption of starch granules in the absence of a fat to carry it safely through the small intestines.

Substituting glycine or collagen peptides for the collagen/broth itself could be a cool experiment. @CLASH elucidated the production process for gelatin and it's... gross, and problematic. Endotoxin galore:

I think this is the mechanism, I've done a lot of research on it to figure it out. The collagen is made by soaking hides in a lye solution for I think it was 3 months. These are then either hydrolyzed and spray dried or spray dried. Imagine the bacteria in a NaOH water solution for three months with raw animal tissue. Heating kills bacteria but it doesn't get rid of endotoxin. So the final product winds up with endotoxin. So much so that a filter is required to use the product in medical applications like grafts where it is not being used in massive quantities. I think bone broth also causes issues because it contains aminoglycans that other carbohydrates that are not absorbed and thus fermented. The long lived people of Abkhasia (who have a dairy based diet) do not eat broth, they believe it causes sickness or something along those lines. I cant quote it for you because I have a hard copy of the anthropological study of them from the 80s (I read it on my free time on a Saturday night....)​

 

[gaze]

That’s funny, I’m the exact opposite. I Feel better with starch but the intestinal inflammation from it causes me to be up all night.

 

[ljihkugft7]

Very

I think in one of the Danny Roddy podcasts, Danny mentioned that cravings for starch might be cravings for salty foods instead. If your sodium intake decreases with less starch consumption, it follows that sleep is affected too.

very interesting! I will try and report back :) thank you!

 

[ljihkugft7]

Do you eat the potato with fat? Sour cream, butter, ice cream :) ? (Or were the ice cream and potato separate experiments?)

That's the only thing that comes to mind now, persorption of starch granules in the absence of a fat to carry it safely through the small intestines.

Substituting glycine or collagen peptides for the collagen/broth itself could be a cool experiment. @CLASH elucidated the production process for gelatin and it's... gross, and problematic. Endotoxin galore:

I think this is the mechanism, I've done a lot of research on it to figure it out. The collagen is made by soaking hides in a lye solution for I think it was 3 months. These are then either hydrolyzed and spray dried or spray dried. Imagine the bacteria in a NaOH water solution for three months with raw animal tissue. Heating kills bacteria but it doesn't get rid of endotoxin. So the final product winds up with endotoxin. So much so that a filter is required to use the product in medical applications like grafts where it is not being used in massive quantities. I think bone broth also causes issues because it contains aminoglycans that other carbohydrates that are not absorbed and thus fermented. The long lived people of Abkhasia (who have a dairy based diet) do not eat broth, they believe it causes sickness or something along those lines. I cant quote it for you because I have a hard copy of the anthropological study of them from the 80s (I read it on my free time on a Saturday night....)​

That is so hectic...my world is now upside down - I loooove my bone broths.

I’ll try collagen instead for a while. Gelatine is a pretty big part of my diet, it definitely could be causing too much endotoxin. The thing is that I feel great with gelatine + no starch? It’s just when I readd starch that

 

[ljihkugft7]

@Cleo for some reason some people just don't do well without starch. I am one of those and try as I might in the past to have my carb source being entirely in sugar, I never managed to get it work. I think its important to listen to the body in situations like this.

How have you prepared the potato you eat, is it well boiled?

Have you tried rice, or corn/masa harina?

It is always possible if you have stopped eating starch for months then reintroduced it your body is just going through an adjustment period. Foods that will benefit you long term can sometimes cause issues in the short term. Unfortunately this is very difficult to work out without going through some discomfort and is frustrating.

Thanks for the advice :)

I will experiment and report back

 

[cjm]

That is so hectic...my world is now upside down - I loooove my bone broths.

I’ll try collagen instead for a while. Gelatine is a pretty big part of my diet, it definitely could be causing too much endotoxin. The thing is that I feel great with gelatine + no starch? It’s just when I readd starch that

Did your post get cut off?

Maybe starch is fantastic fuel for flora, and the combination of the starch and gelatin pushes things over the edge.

I know, I feel you! I had the best soup for dinner last night, the broth was extra good from using two chickens instead of one. Double the pleasure, double the endotoxin.

I just unplugged and stored away the HEPA filter I've been using for years for the same reason: Asthma can be caused by endotoxin (LPS)…from air filters

 

[dukesbobby777]

My theory is that cravings for starch are driven by gut bacteria. I think cravings for foods (in general, whatever they are cravings for) could partially (at least) be caused by them. But also, starch provides that instant glucose hit, is acutely warming to the body (although follows with blood sugar issues) and is more appealing (generally) than ‘watery’ alternatives for calories.

 

[ljihkugft7]

Did your post get cut off?

Maybe starch is fantastic fuel for flora, and the combination of the starch and gelatin pushes things over the edge.

I know, I feel you! I had the best soup for dinner last night, the broth was extra good from using two chickens instead of one. Double the pleasure, double the endotoxin.

I just unplugged and stored away the HEPA filter I've been using for years for the same reason: Asthma can be caused by endotoxin (LPS)…from air filters

Yeah haha it did.

Ah, I think you’re spot on. Probably can’t combine potato and gelatine.

so, even homemade bone broth has endotoxin? I don’t let my bones soak in cold water, I just put them straight into boiling and then light simmer for 24h? When would the endotoxin form?

 

[ljihkugft7]

My theory is that cravings for starch are driven by gut bacteria. I think cravings for foods (in general, whatever they are cravings for) could partially (at least) be caused by them. But also, starch provides that instant glucose hit, is acutely warming to the body (although follows with blood sugar issues) and is more appealing (generally) than ‘watery’ alternatives for calories.

I totally agree :)

I don’t crave starch though. I actually don’t like it at all. I just makes me sleep so well.

Also, it doesn’t feel like a Fast glucose hit When I eat potato to sleep...it feels more like a slow sedative release?

do you think that maybe it’s the extra calories? Because on the days that I eat potato I’m probably hitting close to 2800 calories as opposed to 2200.

maybe for my height (5’9) I need closer to 3000 rather than 2300?

 

[cjm]

so, even homemade bone broth has endotoxin? I don’t let my bones soak in cold water, I just put them straight into boiling and then light simmer for 24h? When would the endotoxin form?

See, now I'm not sure, I may have created a false generalization between gelatin and broth. I will look this up when I have time, but a quick forum search yields precious few results.

The endotoxin would just be there from slaughter, I guess, never washed off, and the factories are probably dripping with it, if you're cooking CAFO victims :)

 

[Recoen]

Have you tried milk with maple syrup or something quick and easy when you wake up?
I would try upping your calories on your non starch days to match what you get on starch days.
Also, salt like was mentioned.
how long have you been eating this way?
are you getting enough b vitamins?

 

[ljihkugft7]

See, now I'm not sure, I may have created a false generalization between gelatin and broth. I will look this up when I have time, but a quick forum search yields precious few results.

The endotoxin would just be there from slaughter, I guess, never washed off, and the factories are probably dripping with it, if you're cooking CAFO victims :)

Ah I see :)

I get my bones from Free-range small local farm here in Victoria Australia.
I'm going to test removing gelatine from my diet and replacing it with my bone broth - I'm going to flash boil the bones for like 5 minutes to clean off any potential endotoxin? and then put into fresh boiling water and cook for +24h. That might reduce endotoxin possibility? Unless endotoxin cant be somewhat washed off haha??

But, nonetheless, it should have considerably less endotoxin than commercial gelatine? :)

So, I'm going to try:
- remove gelatine and replace with more homemade bone broth
- Up calories to match starchy days (+2800)
- more salt

I will try this for 30 Days, along with my usual no-starch diet and see if it fixes my sleep without having to eat potatoes.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Will report back in 30 Days.

 

[Sefton10]

Ah I see :)

I get my bones from Free-range small local farm here in Victoria Australia.
I'm going to test removing gelatine from my diet and replacing it with my bone broth - I'm going to flash boil the bones for like 5 minutes to clean off any potential endotoxin? and then put into fresh boiling water and cook for +24h. That might reduce endotoxin possibility? Unless endotoxin cant be somewhat washed off haha??

But, nonetheless, it should have considerably less endotoxin than commercial gelatine? :)

So, I'm going to try:
- remove gelatine and replace with more homemade bone broth
- Up calories to match starchy days (+2800)
- more salt

I will try this for 30 Days, along with my usual no-starch diet and see if it fixes my sleep without having to eat potatoes.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Will report back in 30 Days.

How are you getting on with this, Cleo?