Cloudy Urine

Swandattur

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Actually, the active ingredient in Benedryl is supposed to be (I've read) where they got the idea for the SSRIs. I think you would want to take a small dose to avoid that effect. Except,there is also an Effexor-like or tricyclic-like effect at higher doses. Peat seems fairly in favor of tricyclics. I think their overall effect is more dopamine as far as I can tell. So, hmm... It seems as if a small dose of Benedryl would be the thing for helping sleep, at any rate. Also, maybe it wouldn't cause extreme grogginess the next day. It would be interesting to know what RP thought about Benedryl's SSRI like effects as opposed to any tricyclic-like effects. You know, how it all shakes out.
 
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radix

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Last night I tried a 25mg dose (50mg the night before). It still sent me to sleep, but I also still woke up after about 3 hours. I was hoping for it to keep me asleep. I do feel less confused and do not have a dry mouth now, in the morning, though.
 
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radix

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From the posts under that article from The Last Psychiatrist comes the below which seem to be the anti-Peat experience:

Do you have any evidence to support your belief that altering the dosage strength of Benadryl can turn a stimulant into a sedative? I would be inclined to believe that response to Benadryl has more to do with one’s individual neurotransmitter/receptor situation rather than strength of dose. People who have lots of histamine and garbage fore ne/serotonin are probably going to experience awesome sleep from it, whereas people who are the reverse will be wired up.

Yes, less of a drug will affects stimulatory receptors less, but it will also affect inhibitory receptors less. It’s possible to feel both sleepy as well as stimulated and awake. Trust me. There is a difference between type and volume. You can have blue and red together side by side, and you can have faded blue/red and you can have bold blue/red. I would think that for people who do not respond to Benadryl with sleep, less Benadryl is only going to create a faded blue/red situation, because the nature of their brain is such that they have lots of stimulation potential for Benadryl to work effectively. Using more is going to create more intensity of the symptoms, and since the complaint is insomnia all they will report is the awful keyed up feeling.

When I was suffering from really bad insomnia during my first year of RN school Benadryl was one of the only things that worked. Ambien didn’t help at all, it just made me more tired physically and wiped my memory. I am sure that I don’t have much potential to become overstimulated from serotonin and NE. At the time I was chronically depressive.
Alcohol has never worked as a sedative for me. Drinking always seems to bring me to a “baseline” state, if I am wired and energetic it can mellow me out, if I’m low and down it will wire me up in a happy way, but it never promotes sleep specifically like it does for other people. Then again my father is an alcoholic, and I suspect I am some type of bipolar so that might be why.


For my own situation I relate insomnia very strongly to cortisol levels, and possibly some dopamine dominance vs serotonin suppression thing.
Evidence for this is the fact that during the luteal phase of my menstrual cycle I will have a return of terrible insomnia, even though I feel very tired and sedated. Progesterone increases GABA (results: stable mood, lethargy, desire to sleep) but it also increases cortisol and dopamine and blocks serotonin-enhancing estrogen (result: insomnia and depression). The insomnia correlates well with the peak of progesterone (thus cortisol) … progesterone dominance basically.
So because of how progesterone increases GABA while at the same time screwing other crap up that makes you awake, it is pretty much the hormone of the devil because you’re tired and listless but are unable to fall or sustain sleep.


The exact OPPOSITE situation occurs during the follicular phase and periovulation. I can tell when I am close to ovulating because suddenly I have very easy and deep dreamful sleep (serotonin/estrogen). This is the first change I observe and it relates to an early sign of more available serotonin (which becomes melatonin, and also deals with excess cortisol)
Eventually mood becomes less stable and I experience hypomanic symptoms (e.g. getting into laughing fits, running down the block dancing, very racy thoughts and uncontrollable energy). A quick study on estrogen shows it is basically a mania-promoting hormone if there ever was one – increasing PKC, serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine receptor sensitivity, MAO, less GABA, etc.

I find myself in a peculiar situation where I no longer need to sleep or want to sleep but my ability to sleep is actually a lot better/restful. NATURE IS FUNNY LIKE THAT.


Anyway, based on my own experiences and what I know about them I wonder why there isn’t more attention paid to cortisol in its effect on the brain to promote insomnia. Some type of cortisol blocker or modifier is probably going to be the most effective insomnia drug there is considering my insomnia predictably relates to peaks in it.
 

Swandattur

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The cortisol part of the post is in line with Peat, but her idea that progesterone raises cortisol and that serotonin is good is completely opposite of what Ray Peat says. I wonder how Peat would interpret her symptoms.

At least the smaller dose still helped your sleep as much as the stronger dose and with less side effects. I think I will try to find more about how Benedryl is supposed to work. I have insomnia fairly often. It seems like all sorts of things can cause it for me. I think often it must be caused by endotoxin.
 

Swandattur

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I looked at graphs of hormones over the reproductive cycle, and while it's true that progesterone should rise right before the menstrual cycle when many women have mood problems, progesterone rises really high through pregnancy. I felt at my best during pregnancy, and many women do. I became depressed during the first year each time after my children were born (when progesterone plummets.) Maybe the problem this woman has is just not enough progesterone.
 

superhuman

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Mittir: You mention you use 1 oz instant coffee in milk. What does that mean? you take 1 oz instant coffee and put it in 1 quart of milk or how do you get that 1oz of coffee down and how long does it take you etc? :)
 

Mittir

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superhuman said:
Mittir: You mention you use 1 oz instant coffee in milk. What does that mean? you take 1 oz instant coffee and put it in 1 quart of milk or how do you get that 1oz of coffee down and how long does it take you etc? :)

I add 1-2 tbs of instant coffee to each glass of milk with lots of honey, 1-2 tbs of honey.
I use whole milk . Only problem is i cant drink it like regular coffee. I have to drink it in one gulp.
It is too bitter. But i immediately feel good.
 

superhuman

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Mittir said:
superhuman said:
Mittir: You mention you use 1 oz instant coffee in milk. What does that mean? you take 1 oz instant coffee and put it in 1 quart of milk or how do you get that 1oz of coffee down and how long does it take you etc? :)

I add 1-2 tbs of instant coffee to each glass of milk with lots of honey, 1-2 tbs of honey.
I use whole milk . Only problem is i cant drink it like regular coffee. I have to drink it in one gulp.
It is too bitter. But i immediately feel good.

Ahh i c. Dont you have to use a litle warm/hot water first so that the instant coffee gets mixed/liquid?
 

HDD

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radix said:
Haagendazendiane,

....
I have tried epsom salt baths, but they leave me light headed and feeling awful.
.

This could be reason for your light headedness-

What would minimize stress the most on the body, taking cold, lukewarm or warm showers? Or would taking baths be better?
Warm showers can lower stress, and if the bath isn't too warm, it's effective, too; if the bath raises the body temperature, that can cause the metabolism to increase, sometimes causing low blood sugar.

(from email depository)

Some need to drink a large glass of OJ after.
 

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