Why Doesn't Dessicated Thyroid Help More With Symptoms?

[firebreather]

I've been taking 3 grains of dessicated thyroid for a 4 months. Before that I had been taking 2 grains for two years.

Although it has helped my temperature and pulse slightly and seems to make a little bit of difference with fatigue I don't see any improvement with sleep, cold extremities, frequent urination, etc.

My basal temp is typically 96.8 to 97.0 and my pulse is consistently 62 to 66.

I've tried increasing the dosage several times and it never seems to help and there have even been a few times where I noticed that I felt the need to urinate more and my hands and feet were colder.

I've tried just about every brand out there and am now using the TR Tman from pimpom.

I'm also eating peatish meaning that I'm eating more fruit and drinking juice, and cutting way back on PUFU foods.

I also do plenty of salt and I'm not afraid to use sugar.

I'm eating between 3,000 and 4,000 calories a day, sometimes a bit more.

Milk seems to give me congestion so I do it very little and I suspect coffee (even with sugar and food) is contributing to my frequent urination and maybe lending to the sleep issue.

I'd love to hear any input.

 

[answersfound]

You say coffee makes you urinate a lot? What else can you tell us about your response to caffeine? Is is something you just cannot tolerate? If so, this may be indicative of poor liver health and glycogen storage. Have you looked at haidut's posts on tolerating caffeine? I think some people use a ratio of 3 to 1 or 2 to 1 of t4 to t3 instead of the normal 4 to 1 because their liver is not in great shape and the t4 doesn't convert well. Maybe try caffeine pills for a couple weeks with theanine. 2 mg per kg for the caffeine dose. Or you could also use vitamin k2

 

[firebreather]

post 107919 You say coffee makes you urinate a lot? What else can you tell us about your response to caffeine? Is is something you just cannot tolerate? If so, this may be indicative of poor liver health and glycogen storage. Have you looked at haidut's posts on tolerating caffeine? I think some people use a ratio of 3 to 1 or 2 to 1 of t4 to t3 instead of the normal 4 to 1 because their liver is not in great shape and the t4 doesn't convert well. Maybe try caffeine pills for a couple weeks with theanine. 2 mg per kg for the caffeine dose. Or you could also use vitamin k2

Thank you so much for responding.

Since I started drinking coffee with food and putting sugar in it, my urination response isn't nearly as bad and I can't say for sure that it's causing frequent urination now but it seems like it may be the likely culprit.

I always wake up between 2 and 4am and sometimes I feel the need to urinate and sometimes I don't but if I have a cup of coffee in the morning it's pretty much always that I feel the need to urinate when I wake up between 2 and 4am.

That's the only negative response that I've noticed from coffee. I would need to drink 2 to 3 cups in the morning to feel a boost of any kind from it. I've never had issues of feeling jittery from it though.

However I will say that when I was at my worst a couple of years ago before i got on thyroid there were multiple times that coffee would actually make my pulse drop pretty low. My normal pulse was around 55 and there were times that after a cup or two of coffee that my pulse would drop to upper 30's or low 40's.

I haven't seen haidut's post on caffeine but I will check it out.

Last time I had bloodwork done in June my t4 and t3 (while taking 3 grains of thyroid) were both on the lower end of the range so I'm not sure I'm having trouble converting to t3 but I could be wrong.

I'll look into the caffeine with theanine.

thank you again.

 

[answersfound]

post 107923

post 107919 You say coffee makes you urinate a lot? What else can you tell us about your response to caffeine? Is is something you just cannot tolerate? If so, this may be indicative of poor liver health and glycogen storage. Have you looked at haidut's posts on tolerating caffeine? I think some people use a ratio of 3 to 1 or 2 to 1 of t4 to t3 instead of the normal 4 to 1 because their liver is not in great shape and the t4 doesn't convert well. Maybe try caffeine pills for a couple weeks with theanine. 2 mg per kg for the caffeine dose. Or you could also use vitamin k2

Thank you so much for responding.

Since I started drinking coffee with food and putting sugar in it, my urination response isn't nearly as bad and I can't say for sure that it's causing frequent urination now but it seems like it may be the likely culprit.

I always wake up between 2 and 4am and sometimes I feel the need to urinate and sometimes I don't but if I have a cup of coffee in the morning it's pretty much always that I feel the need to urinate when I wake up between 2 and 4am.

That's the only negative response that I've noticed from coffee. I would need to drink 2 to 3 cups in the morning to feel a boost of any kind from it. I've never had issues of feeling jittery from it though.

However I will say that when I was at my worst a couple of years ago before i got on thyroid there were multiple times that coffee would actually make my pulse drop pretty low. My normal pulse was around 55 and there were times that after a cup or two of coffee that my pulse would drop to upper 30's or low 40's.

I haven't seen haidut's post on caffeine but I will check it out.

Last time I had bloodwork done in June my t4 and t3 (while taking 3 grains of thyroid) were both on the lower end of the range so I'm not sure I'm having trouble converting to t3 but I could be wrong.

I'll look into the caffeine with theanine.

thank you again.

Yea. I would guess that 3 grains is more than enough. Also how is digestion? That is important too. Activated charcoal and cascara can help with it.

But yea there is a caffeine theanine combo on Amazon with 100 mg caffeine. You could take one pill a day for a week, then move up to two in the second week. I can't imagine you still having these problems once you can tolerate 200 mg caffeine a day.

 

[Peata]

Also have something before bed, maybe a little cheese and honey or something. Keep a little cup of juice mixed with extra sugar and salt by the bed every night in case you wake up with low glycogen/need to pee/adrenaline.

 

[firebreather]

Yea. I would guess that 3 grains is more than enough. Also how is digestion? That is important too. Activated charcoal and cascara can help with it.

But yea there is a caffeine theanine combo on Amazon with 100 mg caffeine. You could take one pill a day for a week, then move up to two in the second week. I can't imagine you still having these problems once you can tolerate 200 mg caffeine a day.

I don't have any problems with digestion, at least I don't think so.

Do you mean stomach ache type of problems?

So you're suggesting that having caffeine and theanine will help with all these symptoms or just the urination.

Why would 3 grains be enough if I still have low pulse and temps, cold hands and feet, etc?

I have some caffeine tabs and theanine on hand so I'll give it a shot

 

[firebreather]

post 107926 Also have something before bed, maybe a little cheese and honey or something. Keep a little cup of juice mixed with extra sugar and salt by the bed every night in case you wake up with low glycogen/need to pee/adrenaline.

I've tried the juice with extra salt and sugar before and it's never made a difference - I've tried it 6 or 7 times actually

 

[Peata]

post 107933

post 107926 Also have something before bed, maybe a little cheese and honey or something. Keep a little cup of juice mixed with extra sugar and salt by the bed every night in case you wake up with low glycogen/need to pee/adrenaline.

I've tried the juice with extra salt and sugar before and it's never made a difference - I've tried it 6 or 7 times actually

I often keep a string cheese and some Powerade by the bedside. For me, it helps calm my body down on the occasion I wake up with adrenaline. It happened last night, actually, and I trace it to going too long between dinner and sleep. After dinner I had a walk and the only thing I had before bed was some cola and skim milk. It wasn't enough or wasn't the right thing to keep me going through the night.

Anyway, experiment with different foods/drinks before bed and to use if needed at night.

 

[GAF]

Try attacking the prolactin, estrogen, serotonin, cortisol problem. That is what it took for it all to start working like it should in combo with thyroid for me.

 

[Derek]

Ray has said that most if not all NDT's on the market are unreliable. He doesn't recommend any brands of NDT. Are you aware of this? Have you had a thyroid panel done? What did it look like? Can you be more specific about your daily diet?

 

[Peata]

post 107933

post 107926 Also have something before bed, maybe a little cheese and honey or something. Keep a little cup of juice mixed with extra sugar and salt by the bed every night in case you wake up with low glycogen/need to pee/adrenaline.

I've tried the juice with extra salt and sugar before and it's never made a difference - I've tried it 6 or 7 times actually

Try Pepcid?

 

[answersfound]

post 107953 Ray has said that most if not all NDT's on the market are unreliable. He doesn't recommend any brands of NDT. Are you aware of this? Have you had a thyroid panel done? What did it look like? Can you be more specific about your daily diet?

That's NOT what he said. He said he is not familiar enough with the NDT products on the market to comment on thei efficacy. He uses synthetic thyroid, but if you go over to Stop the thyroid madness you will see plenty of people seeing relief with NDT. Do you honestly believe all these NDT products are completely ineffective?

 

[ken]

I take thiyroid from Thailand. When I began doing it several years ago after failing to get several other brands to work, I took it up to relieve symptoms. overweight, hair falling out etc. I eventually got to eight grains and lost forty pounds and no more hair loss. The message boards made me feel guilty " have you had your thyroid removed?" Then in some obscure place I read an old doctor say that the most thyroid he had give a patient be fore symptoms had abated was 24 grains. Obviously I wasn't seeing a doctor. I have a young Dr. friend who I sometimes share orders with, she's taking 6 grains. So the message is what your body needs and what it will tolerate. I.e. not restless, no heart pains, diarrhea, sleeplessness etc. On Stop the Thyroid Madness the average woman takes 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 grains.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

as far as the frequent urination is concerned I would try the following (as its whats helped me)

drink less liquids. especially naked water. if possible salt the drinks you do have.
supplements that can help with waking up to pee imo are Aspirin , niacinamide, glycine and taurine. Aspirin especially helps me sleep through the night with less if not no interuptions for toilet visits!

 

[Derek]

post 107961

post 107953 Ray has said that most if not all NDT's on the market are unreliable. He doesn't recommend any brands of NDT. Are you aware of this? Have you had a thyroid panel done? What did it look like? Can you be more specific about your daily diet?

That's NOT what he said. He said he is not familiar enough with the NDT products on the market to comment on thei efficacy. He uses synthetic thyroid, but if you go over to Stop the thyroid madness you will see plenty of people seeing relief with NDT. Do you honestly believe all these NDT products are completely ineffective?

That is what he told me through emails. He said he wouldn't rely on any NDT because they are constantly changing their formula. He also told me through analysis it was found that most NDT brands didn't even contain thyroid hormone at all, it was removed and instead the products contained iodinated casein. He also said there are usually binders or fillers in most NDT's that inhibit the absorption of thyroid hormone in the product (if it even contains them in the first place). I haven't been to Stop the thyroid madness in a while but the last time I was there, people were complaining about ERFA thyroid and how it was changed, the pills were different, and people were having no success using it.

 

[firebreather]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for all these responses. I have answered you all below

post 107967 as far as the frequent urination is concerned I would try the following (as its whats helped me)

drink less liquids. especially naked water. if possible salt the drinks you do have.
supplements that can help with waking up to pee imo are Aspirin , niacinamide, glycine and taurine. Aspirin especially helps me sleep through the night with less if not no interuptions for toilet visits!

I drink a lot less than I used to but the problem is that when I drink noticeably less by the time the evening rolls around I get very thirsty. There have been times when this happened that I drank a qt of gatorade to quench my thirst and slept better than normal and then other times where I drank the qt and got up the same amount. All that to say at this point I don't think the fluids has much to do with it.

I've been salting my liquids for about 2 years now.

I feel like I've tried everything under the sun, including those you mentioned with no noticable difference. Although I did take 1gr of aspirin the other morning and I did sleep 6 hrs straight which is out of the ordinary. How much do you take and at what time do you take it to help with sleep?

post 107963 I take thiyroid from Thailand. When I began doing it several years ago after failing to get several other brands to work, I took it up to relieve symptoms. overweight, hair falling out etc. I eventually got to eight grains and lost forty pounds and no more hair loss. The message boards made me feel guilty " have you had your thyroid removed?" Then in some obscure place I read an old doctor say that the most thyroid he had give a patient be fore symptoms had abated was 24 grains. Obviously I wasn't seeing a doctor. I have a young Dr. friend who I sometimes share orders with, she's taking 6 grains. So the message is what your body needs and what it will tolerate. I.e. not restless, no heart pains, diarrhea, sleeplessness etc. On Stop the Thyroid Madness the average woman takes 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 grains.

Wow, very interesting. I guess I may need to slowly ramp it up

Try Pepcid?

Pepcid? How in the world would help? I thought that was for reflux.

 

[firebreather]

post 107953 Ray has said that most if not all NDT's on the market are unreliable. He doesn't recommend any brands of NDT. Are you aware of this? Have you had a thyroid panel done? What did it look like? Can you be more specific about your daily diet?

I've had many done. On the last one my my T3 and T4 were both on the low end of the range and my TSH was very low. Before I started the thyroid it was around 5.5

More specifically about my diet well let's see.

I normally have 3 or 4 eggs cooked in butter for breakfast with a potato and a generous helping of homemade apple sauce and a very ripe banana. The applesauce is probably an apple and a half with 2 tbsp of sugar.

Snack is some leftover dinner from the night before, maybe a bit of meatloaf and a piece of fruit.

Lunch is more leftovers with a potato and an orange.

Another snack of maybe some oatmeal with milk and some honey or sugar or some corn chips instead of oatmeal.

Then dinner is usually some kind of beef or chicken or fish with potato and some fruit and a tbsp of gelatin.

I don't do much in the way of dairy or OJ because they seem to give me congestion.

A snack before bed doesn't really seem to make much of a difference.

Since I don't do well with OJ I've been drinking some lemonade with added salt of course.

Starches seem to help me urinate less so I try to do them.

 

[answersfound]

Yes but these high grain people are not Peatarians. They are probably doing a bunch of things wrong which is why they need so much thyroid. So you can't compare yourself to these people who do low carb or take fish oil or whatever. Isn't 4 grains considered full hormone replacement?

 

[Peata]

post 107971 Pepcid? How in the world would help? I thought that was for reflux.

Pepcid: Famotidine increases glycogen, improves glucose metabolism

Biotin too: Biotin promotes glycogen synthesis

And Taurine: Taurine doubles liver glycogen

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I use about 250-325mg of Aspirin right before bed. I don't use it every night. Just every now and then.