Thyroid Or Coffee(Caffeine) Cause Gynecomastia

[Abc123]

I’m completely off thyroid hormones and I seem to be doing ok.

I believe the root cause is because I have Candida(stool testing) and poor liver function.

Some days my nipple puffiness will be worse than others. I think if I fix my liver issue (high Shbg and high enzymes) that maybe my sex drive will come back.

I do have symptoms of estrogen dominance. Storing lots of fat on my glute area. Smaller traps, neck and delts. And just not having that masculine dominant look.

I wonder if trying the Liver Clense protocol will help. Caffiene, Aspirin, Taurine and Glycine

Thank you guys

 

[ratstrain]

Thank you! Yes I was consuming 1-2 carrot Salads daily. Which I have stopped consuming because the high carotene. I was also taking Estroban daily which has 6000iu of Vit A. I wil be cutting back on that. I will be having mushrooms a few times per week for Estrogen control instead of the carrots.

I'm finding myself tolerating the coffee much better with more sugar and cream. And I'm usually having it after a meal and drink it slowly. So I think liver is improving. But the problem of high SHBG still remains a mystery

Bumping this thread in hopes of figuring out why my progesterone is high. Can anyone help please?

Carrot, like other apiaceae, is a galactagogue. Possibly, at least in part, because of falcarinol acting as a cannabinoid antagonist (inverse agonist) thereby increasing prolactin. Raw carrot contains more falcarinol and essential oil than cooked.

Prolactin can in turn increase progesterone (and progesterone can increase prolactin).

Stress pushes the adrenals to release progesterone.

Coffee and caffeine can increase these hormones.

An impaired metabolism of progesterone is also a possible cause of elevation.

Studies have found high progesterone in men with liver impairment and gynecomastia, and high progesterone and gynecomastia in men with hyperthyroidism due to graves' disease. It is of note that graves' disease can evolve to hashimoto's thyroiditis.

 

[ratstrain]

Some other potential explanations for an elevated progesterone are adrenal hyperplasia with 21-hydroxylase deficiency, and hyper-vitaminosis A as well as, again, thyrotoxicosis, via a common mechanism involving prostaglandin D2.

 

[Abc123]

Carrot, like other apiaceae, is a galactagogue. Possibly, at least in part, because of falcarinol acting as a cannabinoid antagonist (inverse agonist) thereby increasing prolactin. Raw carrot contains more falcarinol and essential oil than cooked.

Prolactin can in turn increase progesterone (and progesterone can increase prolactin).

Stress pushes the adrenals to release progesterone.

Coffee and caffeine can increase these hormones.

An impaired metabolism of progesterone is also a possible cause of elevation.

Studies have found high progesterone in men with liver impairment and gynecomastia, and high progesterone and gynecomastia in men with hyperthyroidism due to graves' disease. It is of note that graves' disease can evolve to hashimoto's thyroiditis.

Thank you! I've talked to my functional medicine donut and told him about my recent symptoms.

That I am feeling a lot better. Im off of all thyroid hormone. But I am experiencing nipple puffiness(gynecomastia in my left nipple)

He said " Hi Nick...Glad to hear things are improving. The nipple tenderness is probably a combination of poor biotransformation of xeno estrogens/biotics as well as estrogen. In that case, I would consider a complete 30 day liver d-toxification of all toxins, now that the chronic inflammation due to infections have been resolved. It is the cadilac of all d-tox protocols"

What does the liver detox protocol consist of?

"glutathione...bitters...liposomal b's...binding agents..phosp.choline for the most part"

I will be starting this next week! I hope it helps me

 

[Vinero]

Hi there ABC123, I have just joined this site today because I may have the answers for you.

a) Hashimoto's Thyroiditis is a mineral deficiency - mainly Selenium and Iodine. Selenium is essential for converting T4 to T3.
Now, Boron, Silica (Horsetail), Magnesium and a full spectrum Vitamin E will boost the Thyroid's recovery. Abstaining from all forms of Fluoride, Chlorine and Bromides is a MUST. These are Halogens above Iodine in the Periodical Table of Elements. They remove all traces of Iodine from the cells. Iodine is seriously lacking in the modern diet owing to processed food and/or poor soils.

b) Gynecomastia is becoming prevalent in today's men owing to toxic overload and oestrogen mimicking chemicals in the diet and environment eg.- plastics containing BPA and BPS as one example. As for diet, abstain from Soy products (Tofu is oestrogenic) as they prevent the uptake of essential minerals and other nutrients - ie. acts an an anti-nutrient.
Note ABC123, Fermented organic soys -Tempeh, Natto and Miso are ok in small amounts.
GMOs should be avoided especially some corns and canola products.

c) As for coffee touted as a beneficial treatment, I disagree. Caffeine is the coffee plants' defence chemical from insects etc. That is, you are drinking nerve damaging insecticide.

For brevity, I will stop there for now as this my first post.

Cheers and good luck,
Mr_Jeff.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/caffeine.shtml

 

[schultz]

I would like to lower Progesterone because of all the issues I'm having. For the longest time I thought Estrogen was causing low libido, low sex drive, water retention. Everytime I took blood labs, my estrogen has been fine. They I finally tested Progesterone and it came back very high.

So High Progesterone kinda explains all of the above! Progesterone - 0.24 (<0.16)

Certain blood tests may be helpful, but I think sometimes these tests can lead people in the wrong direction. Have you read Ray's articles? He has criticized blood tests because he thinks they can be misleading in that they do not accurately represent the amount of a hormone in the tissue of a person. Blood tests merely tell you what's in the blood. Ray is also critical of the idea of "free" hormones.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/tissue-bound-estrogen.shtml

[bold is mine]

"The concentration of a hormone in the blood doesn't directly represent the concentration in the various organs."

"... they are selling an impossibility when they do calculations to reveal the amount of “free hormone,” as something distinct from the protein bound hormone, in the patient’s blood."

"The “free” hormones are supposed to be the only ones that can get into the cells to deliver their signals, but the problem is that “free hormones” exist only in the imagination of people who interpret certain lab tests, as I discussed in the newsletter on thyroid tests (May, 2000)."

Prolactin can in turn increase progesterone (and progesterone can increase prolactin).

You have it backwards. Progesterone lowers prolactin. Prolactin and estrogen go hand in hand.

 

[ratstrain]

Thank you! I've talked to my functional medicine donut and told him about my recent symptoms.

That I am feeling a lot better. Im off of all thyroid hormone. But I am experiencing nipple puffiness(gynecomastia in my left nipple)

He said " Hi Nick...Glad to hear things are improving. The nipple tenderness is probably a combination of poor biotransformation of xeno estrogens/biotics as well as estrogen. In that case, I would consider a complete 30 day liver d-toxification of all toxins, now that the chronic inflammation due to infections have been resolved. It is the cadilac of all d-tox protocols"

What does the liver detox protocol consist of?

"glutathione...bitters...liposomal b's...binding agents..phosp.choline for the most part"

I will be starting this next week! I hope it helps me

Doctor Donut

I don't know what it is, but bitters in particular may harm the liver, and may accentuate gynecomastia and/or induce galactorrhea. Whereas estrogen and progesterone contribute to prime the breast, their withdrawal contributes to enable lactation, besides, estrogen is less compatible with lactation than progesterone, moreover some herbs commonly used as hepato-tonics increase prolactin and are known galactagogues, and they may paradoxically be detrimental for the liver in some people.

Estrogen is not necessarily needed to develop gynecomastia, studies have found that progesterone is involved in both ductal and alveolar development and can accomplish the former independantly of estrogen.

https://breast-cancer-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/bcr3431

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/10.1210/en.2004-1360

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5068565/

You have it backwards. Progesterone lowers prolactin. Prolactin and estrogen go hand in hand.

Both estrogen and progesterone have both an inhibitory and a stimulatory effect on prolactin.

Prolactin too has dual effects on these hormones (on the levels, the receptors, the actions).

And it can be indirect, for example progesterone can affect prolactin by increasing estrogen, but regarding more direct causality here are some studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3045478/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9158065

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7544880

 

[mayweatherking]

Thank you! I've talked to my functional medicine donut and told him about my recent symptoms.

That I am feeling a lot better. Im off of all thyroid hormone. But I am experiencing nipple puffiness(gynecomastia in my left nipple)

He said " Hi Nick...Glad to hear things are improving. The nipple tenderness is probably a combination of poor biotransformation of xeno estrogens/biotics as well as estrogen. In that case, I would consider a complete 30 day liver d-toxification of all toxins, now that the chronic inflammation due to infections have been resolved. It is the cadilac of all d-tox protocols"

What does the liver detox protocol consist of?

"glutathione...bitters...liposomal b's...binding agents..phosp.choline for the most part"

I will be starting this next week! I hope it helps me

Did you ever figure out what was going on with the high progesterone issue causing gyno with you? I have the same problem, the closest I have come to figuring it out has to do with potassium, I found this study showing low potassium intake increases progesterone, but I'm not sure what the problem is, I tried asking ray he said it's really hard to be deficient in potassium because your body holds it or something when you don't have enough? I don't know, i've gotten mine tested and it was normal, but I notice my lips turn a darker shade of red when I increase it, so I have been eating 3 or 4 bananas a day, but I don't know if that is the problem or not.

Modern dietary habits are characterized by high-sodium and low-potassium intakes, each of which was correlated with a higher risk for hypertension. In this study, we examined whether long-term variations in the intake of sodium and potassium induce lasting changes in the plasma concentration of circulating steroids by developing a mathematical model of steroidogenesis in mice. One finding of this model was that mice increase their plasma progesterone levels specifically in response to potassium depletion. This prediction was confirmed by measurements in both male mice and men. Further investigation showed that progesterone regulates renal potassium handling both in males and females under potassium restriction, independent of its role in reproduction. The increase in progesterone production by male mice was time dependent and correlated with decreased urinary potassium content. The progesterone-dependent ability to efficiently retain potassium was because of an RU486 (a progesterone receptor antagonist)-sensitive stimulation of the colonic hydrogen, potassium-ATPase (known as the non-gastric or hydrogen, potassium-ATPase type 2) in the kidney. Thus, in males, a specific progesterone concentration profile induced by chronic potassium restriction regulates potassium balance.
Chronic potassium depletion increases adrenal progesterone production that is necessary for efficient renal retention of potassium. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Abc123]

I

Did you ever figure out what was going on with the high progesterone issue causing gyno with you? I have the same problem, the closest I have come to figuring it out has to do with potassium, I found this study showing low potassium intake increases progesterone, but I'm not sure what the problem is, I tried asking ray he said it's really hard to be deficient in potassium because your body holds it or something when you don't have enough? I don't know, i've gotten mine tested and it was normal, but I notice my lips turn a darker shade of red when I increase it, so I have been eating 3 or 4 bananas a day, but I don't know if that is the problem or not.

Modern dietary habits are characterized by high-sodium and low-potassium intakes, each of which was correlated with a higher risk for hypertension. In this study, we examined whether long-term variations in the intake of sodium and potassium induce lasting changes in the plasma concentration of circulating steroids by developing a mathematical model of steroidogenesis in mice. One finding of this model was that mice increase their plasma progesterone levels specifically in response to potassium depletion. This prediction was confirmed by measurements in both male mice and men. Further investigation showed that progesterone regulates renal potassium handling both in males and females under potassium restriction, independent of its role in reproduction. The increase in progesterone production by male mice was time dependent and correlated with decreased urinary potassium content. The progesterone-dependent ability to efficiently retain potassium was because of an RU486 (a progesterone receptor antagonist)-sensitive stimulation of the colonic hydrogen, potassium-ATPase (known as the non-gastric or hydrogen, potassium-ATPase type 2) in the kidney. Thus, in males, a specific progesterone concentration profile induced by chronic potassium restriction regulates potassium balance.
Chronic potassium depletion increases adrenal progesterone production that is necessary for efficient renal retention of potassium. - PubMed - NCBI

No I never got to figuring it out. I'm not on all thyroid meds anymore. I have high estrogen now and high SHBG too. I did see an endo to try to get to the bottom of this. I was just prescribed Tamoxifen as the gyno started coming back. I did go on a bulk and i was up to about 225lbs. maybe 16-17% body fat and the nipple flair up happened again while not being on anything. I personally dont know if the tamoxifen will clear up the gyno. Or even what is causing this hormonal imbalance?

 

[Arrade]

I


No I never got to figuring it out. I'm not on all thyroid meds anymore. I have high estrogen now and high SHBG too. I did see an endo to try to get to the bottom of this. I was just prescribed Tamoxifen as the gyno started coming back. I did go on a bulk and i was up to about 225lbs. maybe 16-17% body fat and the nipple flair up happened again while not being on anything. I personally dont know if the tamoxifen will clear up the gyno. Or even what is causing this hormonal imbalance?

Rolexifene i think is better for gyno, or topical dht like 11-keto-dht
Thyroid is anti estrogen i believe, I would want my TSH in range
Higher BF will lead to more aromtase enzyme and thus more estrogen so lower bf
Tudca is amazing for restoring liver function

 

[danishispsychic]

If you have a clogged up liver and it seems like you do - possibly even a fatty liver - putting all the supplements in the world is not going to help you. Until you get your liver cleaned out you - your hormones are not going to be regulated. First colon cleanse, ( series of colonics ) then liver cleanse ( I would suggest the Liver Flush . You want to start with a clean slate- no supplements, do a Master Cleanse or a 30 day juice cleanse, colonics and a liver flush and then see how your boobs are.

 

[artist]

I just want to point out that coffee should not be seen as interchangeable with caffeine with respect to negative symptoms. I can't tolerate almost any coffee or tea (even one cup will make me feel at least mildly off or even really terrible, except in certain situations where the benefits outweigh the negatives like when slow digestion is being slow, the first day of my period, being really low on magnesium, etc) But I can easily tolerate 6+ cups of coffee's worth of caffeine in a day in the form of pure caffeine powder or certain energy drinks (Hi Ball Energy).

 

[Abc123]

If you have a clogged up liver and it seems like you do - possibly even a fatty liver - putting all the supplements in the world is not going to help you. Until you get your liver cleaned out you - your hormones are not going to be regulated. First colon cleanse, ( series of colonics ) then liver cleanse ( I would suggest the Liver Flush . You want to start with a clean slate- no supplements, do a Master Cleanse or a 30 day juice cleanse, colonics and a liver flush and then see how your boobs are.

I did do a liver detoxification kit from Quicksilver labs that didn’t do too much. Still had the issues.

From what I read from @haidut - Caffeine, Taurine and Aspirin are great for the liver which I have been using frequently. I am dieting to get leaner.

Do you think using OJ as my main carb source would help with cleaning the liver and Bowels as it’s easilt digestible and pro metabolic?

 

[Abc123]

Recent Labs Here

Total Cholestorol 215 (<200 mg/dL)
HDL 40 (>40 mg/dL)
Triglycerides 70 (<150 mg/dL)
LDL 158
Glucose 67 (65-99 mg/dL)
BUN 18 (7-25 mg/dL)
Creatinine 1.46 (0.60-1.35 mg/dL)
Sodium 144 (135-146 mmol/L)
Potassium 4.6 (3.5-5.3 mmol/L)
Chloride 108 (98-110 mmol/L)
CO2 18 (20-31 mmol/L)
Creatine Kinase 567 (44-196) -------- VERY HIGH
Total testosterone 1007 (250-1100)
Free testosterone 69.8 (46-224)
SHBG 79 (10-50) -----------HIGH
Albumin 3.7 (3.6-5.1 g/dL)
AFP 3.9 (1.6-4.5)
DHEAS 119 (106-464) ------ LOW
Estrone 58 (< 68)
FSH 4.5 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)
LH 5.1 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
Prolactin 6.5 (2.0-18.0 NG/mL)
fT4 0.9 (0.8-1.8)
TSH 5.43 (0.4-4.5)
Estradiol 41 (< 39)
HCG < 2 (<5 mIU/mL)

 

[Arrade]

I did do a liver detoxification kit from Quicksilver labs that didn’t do too much. Still had the issues.

From what I read from @haidut - Caffeine, Taurine and Aspirin are great for the liver which I have been using frequently. I am dieting to get leaner.

Do you think using OJ as my main carb source would help with cleaning the liver and Bowels as it’s easilt digestible and pro metabolic?

If you’re gonna use taurine why not use Tudca, where pretty much every other online source says is the best way to fix our liver.
Also fiber is good for the liver

 

[Arrade]

Also you have hypothyroidism, anything above a 4 a doctor would normally prescribe t4

 

[Abc123]

Also you have hypothyroidism, anything above a 4 a doctor would normally prescribe t4

I was on Thyroid Meds but they screwed me up. I've been trying to eat a Peat based diet to help. I feel pretty decent. Just having this issue with the Gyno and poor libido and erection quality too.

 

[Arrade]

I was on Thyroid Meds but they screwed me up. I've been trying to eat a Peat based diet to help. I feel pretty decent. Just having this issue with the Gyno and poor libido and erection quality too.

Take an iodine and selenium supplement?
Both of those will work towards fixing your thyroid and lower estrogen.
It’s probably the estrogen giving you all those problems

 

[mayweatherking]

I was on Thyroid Meds but they screwed me up. I've been trying to eat a Peat based diet to help. I feel pretty decent. Just having this issue with the Gyno and poor libido and erection quality too.

hows your bowels? i can tell you for a fact mine is messed up. drinking milk completely stops my digestion, i have started to eat cheese instead and noticed it got a little better, but still not there all the way. for sure i have endotoxin in my body. my next move is to try to drop cheese and opt for something else. and incorporate dark green veggies as well since fiber pulls out estrogen from the body, but yeah man, we sound really similar. it really is difficult to navigate. nofap and body stretching is a must in this condition. ive also opted for chamomile tea to try to relax the muscles as well as epsom salt soaks.

 

[Abc123]

hows your bowels? i can tell you for a fact mine is messed up. drinking milk completely stops my digestion, i have started to eat cheese instead and noticed it got a little better, but still not there all the way. for sure i have endotoxin in my body. my next move is to try to drop cheese and opt for something else. and incorporate dark green veggies as well since fiber pulls out estrogen from the body, but yeah man, we sound really similar. it really is difficult to navigate. nofap and body stretching is a must in this condition. ive also opted for chamomile tea to try to relax the muscles as well as epsom salt soaks.

Bowel movements are Ok. not too bad. Also do you notice that your "manhood" is smaller as well? I'm having this issue. Its super annoying.

I'm wondering if have 2 carrot salads per day as well as adding in Taurine to my current supplements.

Daily Im taking
Kuione 1.5mg
Vit D - 2000iu
Aspirin - 325mg
Vitamin E - 400iu
Tamoxifen - 10mg (Just Started 7/20 - Endo wants me on it for 3 months to see if it clears gyno)

I have tried Pine Pollen with Butea Superba and I noticed my "manhood" was much bigger with it. But I'd like to figure out this issue because its definitely embarrassing and I dont feel confident around women.