Why Do I Need Such Huge Thyroid Dosages?

Guacamayo

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
64
I started taking T3, T4 and NDT meds around 2 years ago - the dosage that keeps me functional is 80mcg of T3 (but 100mcg is better), and 3 capsules of 300mg ThyroGold (equivalent to around 6 grains of NDT I've been told). When I try and switch it out for 200mcg of T4 or 100mcg of T4, the relief of symptoms isn't as strong. I've seen multiple naturopaths plus doctors and endocrinologists and no one can explain why I need such a massive dose.

I tried switching out to Tyromax but didn't get a good response from that - I took 14 drops in the morning and 14 drops in the afternoon and still felt like hypo symptoms were slowly creeping back: constipation, bad digestion, low energy, poor memory, etc.

My cortisol isn't low. It's elevated in the morning and day, but becomes normal at night.

I've been taking supps to lower my estrogen and raise testosterone and that's not doing anything.

I would keep taking these massive doses, but my blood work showed that they're causing a big turnover of my bone tissue (my ALP marker for bone is off the charts - I initially thought it was a liver issue, but it turns out that huge doses of T3 meds lead to high bone turnover by keeping you in a hyper state). If I keep this up the endo said it may lead to osteoporosis.

The issue is that whenever I try and lower my dosage and try and raise thyroid by natural means (and lowering estrogen at the same time) all the hypo symptoms come back. I last for a week or two before I have to go back.

My autoimmune thyroid antibodies are also going through the roof so I don't see myself lowering my dose anytime soon under these conditions.

My question is: Why would I need to take such huge doses? Why do I need to take 100mcg of T3 just to get my T3 levels mid-range? And at the same time, why the need for even more massive doses of NDT? It's not lowered cortisol - I know that much. The other advice I read was to start taking hormone meds to support the thyroid, but that was in the case of chronically low cortisol.

I've taken all the different herbs and supps (including pregnenolone and progesterone) for adrenal fatigue...that did nothing. Dropping estrogen and increasing testosterone only caused cracking joints and bones.

Someone out there must be in the same boat as me and I'm curious what their solution was.

BTW, my morning temps usually range from 36.2 - 36.6 degrees celsius. For some reason when I lower the amount of thyroid I take my morning temps actually go up to 36.6. The drawback being that hypo symptoms return.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
8,509
I need similar amounts. I don’t know why. Some people do. I do far better with both T4 and T3. I sometimes take 1 and a half Cynoplus during the day in the winter 120mcg/30mcg T4/T3.
 

Queen foodie

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
18
I started taking T3, T4 and NDT meds around 2 years ago - the dosage that keeps me functional is 80mcg of T3 (but 100mcg is better), and 3 capsules of 300mg ThyroGold (equivalent to around 6 grains of NDT I've been told). When I try and switch it out for 200mcg of T4 or 100mcg of T4, the relief of symptoms isn't as strong. I've seen multiple naturopaths plus doctors and endocrinologists and no one can explain why I need such a massive dose.

I tried switching out to Tyromax but didn't get a good response from that - I took 14 drops in the morning and 14 drops in the afternoon and still felt like hypo symptoms were slowly creeping back: constipation, bad digestion, low energy, poor memory, etc.

My cortisol isn't low. It's elevated in the morning and day, but becomes normal at night.

I've been taking supps to lower my estrogen and raise testosterone and that's not doing anything.

I would keep taking these massive doses, but my blood work showed that they're causing a big turnover of my bone tissue (my ALP marker for bone is off the charts - I initially thought it was a liver issue, but it turns out that huge doses of T3 meds lead to high bone turnover by keeping you in a hyper state). If I keep this up the endo said it may lead to osteoporosis.

The issue is that whenever I try and lower my dosage and try and raise thyroid by natural means (and lowering estrogen at the same time) all the hypo symptoms come back. I last for a week or two before I have to go back.

My autoimmune thyroid antibodies are also going through the roof so I don't see myself lowering my dose anytime soon under these conditions.

My question is: Why would I need to take such huge doses? Why do I need to take 100mcg of T3 just to get my T3 levels mid-range? And at the same time, why the need for even more massive doses of NDT? It's not lowered cortisol - I know that much. The other advice I read was to start taking hormone meds to support the thyroid, but that was in the case of chronically low cortisol.

I've taken all the different herbs and supps (including pregnenolone and progesterone) for adrenal fatigue...that did nothing. Dropping estrogen and increasing testosterone only caused cracking joints and bones.

Someone out there must be in the same boat as me and I'm curious what their solution was.

BTW, my morning temps usually range from 36.2 - 36.6 degrees celsius. For some reason when I lower the amount of thyroid I take my morning temps actually go up to 36.6. The drawback being that hypo symptoms return.
You can research Dr John Lowe on his T3 dosages for people who maybe thyroid resistant. I've been taking 62.5-75mcg for years and I need at least 62.5-75 mcg to feel good.
 

Jkbp

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
56
I have taken 10mg T-3 and 200mcg of T-4 daily for years. I’ve tried to lower my dose many times but within a week I’m unable to function.
 

HLP

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
281
I have taken 10mg T-3 and 200mcg of T-4 daily for years. I’ve tried to lower my dose many times but within a week I’m unable to function.
T3 is usually prescribed in mcg doses not mg. Ray has mentioned that 7 mcg T3 is what the body can physiologically deal with at one time. T4 is dosed in mg.
 

Jkbp

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
56
T3 is usually prescribed in mcg doses not mg. Ray has mentioned that 7 mcg T3 is what the body can physiologically deal with at one time. T4 is dosed in mg.
I just phoned my pharmacy to confirm. I take 200 mcg of Synthroid (T-4) and 10mcg’s of Cytomel (T-3).
 

Guacamayo

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Thread starter
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Mar 4, 2018
Messages
64
@ecstatichamster Are you taking only 30mcg of T3? That's around 1/3 of my daily dose.

Here's a crazy theory - could it be related to brain/head size? Ray Peat has mentioned that the brain takes up most energy and perhaps those of us with big heads need a greater dosage to jumpstart the brain's metabolism.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
8,509
@ecstatichamster Are you taking only 30mcg of T3? That's around 1/3 of my daily dose.

Here's a crazy theory - could it be related to brain/head size? Ray Peat has mentioned that the brain takes up most energy and perhaps those of us with big heads need a greater dosage to jumpstart the brain's metabolism.

maybe. I think it can change over time I hope to reduce thyroid needs over time.
 

sunny

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Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
7
I thought I remember Ray saying to take 3-4 mcg of T3 per hour. How are you taking bigger doses? I do not have a thyroid so I need a full replacement dose. I am using cynoplus and cynomel. It is hard to take only 3-4 mcg per hour and get it all in during the day when you are working. And then Ray says you can need 4x as much in winter- I have no idea how you would get all that in with 3-4 mcg per hour.

Right now I am taking 25mcg of cynomel and 90 of the cynoplus (90mcg t4, 22mcg t3). I probably need to take more but my cholesterol had fallen to 160 the last time I had a test and I have not been getting tested with the pandemic.

I have confusing symptoms- I feel generally good, and have good sleep. But I have constipation that I cannot solve. I feel like carrots and cascara stopped working. I feel like my entire day is dominated by thoughts of taking thyroid, and what can I eat to poop.

I use a digital thermometer in armpit and it is usually 97.8 (so I am hoping it is the one degree difference they say axillary temp is. Pulse on a finger pulse ox meter is often low- sometimes in 70s, but usually 60s and sometimes 50s.

I have been severely hypothyroid- I went thru that after having RAI for hyperthyroidism (don't ever do that is my advice) and then having the "standard of care" with synthroid. It was awful. I don't feel anything like that now- but the constipation, maybe low temp (thought I don't feel cold), and the low pulse- is confounding.

I write all this to say that I think I probably need bigger doses, but am a bit afraid to do that because of Reverse T3, lowering cholesterol too much, and bone health.
 

Queen foodie

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
18
I thought I remember Ray saying to take 3-4 mcg of T3 per hour. How are you taking bigger doses? I do not have a thyroid so I need a full replacement dose. I am using cynoplus and cynomel. It is hard to take only 3-4 mcg per hour and get it all in during the day when you are working. And then Ray says you can need 4x as much in winter- I have no idea how you would get all that in with 3-4 mcg per hour.

Right now I am taking 25mcg of cynomel and 90 of the cynoplus (90mcg t4, 22mcg t3). I probably need to take more but my cholesterol had fallen to 160 the last time I had a test and I have not been getting tested with the pandemic.

I have confusing symptoms- I feel generally good, and have good sleep. But I have constipation that I cannot solve. I feel like carrots and cascara stopped working. I feel like my entire day is dominated by thoughts of taking thyroid, and what can I eat to poop.

I use a digital thermometer in armpit and it is usually 97.8 (so I am hoping it is the one degree difference they say axillary temp is. Pulse on a finger pulse ox meter is often low- sometimes in 70s, but usually 60s and sometimes 50s.

I have been severely hypothyroid- I went thru that after having RAI for hyperthyroidism (don't ever do that is my advice) and then having the "standard of care" with synthroid. It was awful. I don't feel anything like that now- but the constipation, maybe low temp (thought I don't feel cold), and the low pulse- is confounding.

I write all this to say that I think I probably need bigger doses, but am a bit afraid to do that because of Reverse T3, lowering cholesterol too much, and bone health.
You should research the late Dr John Lowe's work on thyroid resistance. Some of us like myself get no improvement on tiny doses through the day...I've experimented with "all in one go" and split in small doses through the day. The only way it works for me is "all in one go! I take 50mcg in the morning when I wake up (on an empty stomach). In cold weather, I go up to 75mcg in one go. Dr John Lowe talks about his patients and himself who are thyroid-resistance and need supra physiological amounts in one go to solve all their issues. I've turned my life around by taking t3 in one huge dose and I have been doing that since 2017. You should research Dr John Lowe's work.
 

gaze

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,583
I thought I remember Ray saying to take 3-4 mcg of T3 per hour. How are you taking bigger doses? I do not have a thyroid so I need a full replacement dose. I am using cynoplus and cynomel. It is hard to take only 3-4 mcg per hour and get it all in during the day when you are working. And then Ray says you can need 4x as much in winter- I have no idea how you would get all that in with 3-4 mcg per hour.

Right now I am taking 25mcg of cynomel and 90 of the cynoplus (90mcg t4, 22mcg t3). I probably need to take more but my cholesterol had fallen to 160 the last time I had a test and I have not been getting tested with the pandemic.

I have confusing symptoms- I feel generally good, and have good sleep. But I have constipation that I cannot solve. I feel like carrots and cascara stopped working. I feel like my entire day is dominated by thoughts of taking thyroid, and what can I eat to poop.

I use a digital thermometer in armpit and it is usually 97.8 (so I am hoping it is the one degree difference they say axillary temp is. Pulse on a finger pulse ox meter is often low- sometimes in 70s, but usually 60s and sometimes 50s.

I have been severely hypothyroid- I went thru that after having RAI for hyperthyroidism (don't ever do that is my advice) and then having the "standard of care" with synthroid. It was awful. I don't feel anything like that now- but the constipation, maybe low temp (thought I don't feel cold), and the low pulse- is confounding.

I write all this to say that I think I probably need bigger doses, but am a bit afraid to do that because of Reverse T3, lowering cholesterol too much, and bone health.
what intervals do you dose it currently ? have any experience with armour or another ndt as a replacement dose ?
 

sunny

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
7
what intervals do you dose it currently ? have any experience with armour or another ndt as a replacement dose ?
I did take WP Thyroid (NDT) and was happy with it, but a couple years ago their was a shortage of raw material and all ndt's were in short supply, almost impossible to get. It still might be- so at that time I just changed to cynoplus and cynomel instead of running around from pharmacy to pharmacy trying to get enough pills to make up my dose. I currently take a portion of my dose every one to two hours, depending on remembering while I am at work. It is kind of a pain to do that, but I don't know what else to do. I actually just checked the WP Thyroid and everything still says temporarily unavailable. I think I preferred it as replacement dose because NDT needs to be digested to produce the hormones, so it seemed to work better with my slow digestion.
 

sunny

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
7
You should research the late Dr John Lowe's work on thyroid resistance. Some of us like myself get no improvement on tiny doses through the day...I've experimented with "all in one go" and split in small doses through the day. The only way it works for me is "all in one go! I take 50mcg in the morning when I wake up (on an empty stomach). In cold weather, I go up to 75mcg in one go. Dr John Lowe talks about his patients and himself who are thyroid-resistance and need supra physiological amounts in one go to solve all their issues. I've turned my life around by taking t3 in one huge dose and I have been doing that since 2017. You should research Dr John Lowe's work.
What issues were solved that way, if you don't mind sharing? I have read some of his work in the past. I feel good, have good energy and sleep, but I have verrrry slow digestion- it is exasperating. I don't even really know if more thyroid hormone than I am taking is supposed to solve that. I have not had blood tests since this pandemic thing, but I have had a high RT3 in the past, so that is the main reason I don't take a large amount at one time. Also, the last check on cholesterol had fallen from 200 to 165 or so- I am hoping it is just from good conversion to steroid hormones and not too much thyroid.
 

Queen foodie

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2019
Messages
18
What issues were solved that way, if you don't mind sharing? I have read some of his work in the past. I feel good, have good energy and sleep, but I have verrrry slow digestion- it is exasperating. I don't even really know if more thyroid hormone than I am taking is supposed to solve that. I have not had blood tests since this pandemic thing, but I have had a high RT3 in the past, so that is the main reason I don't take a large amount at one time. Also, the last check on cholesterol had fallen from 200 to 165 or so- I am hoping it is just from good conversion to steroid hormones and not too much thyroid.
Sunny, what issues were solved? Cold feet, low body temperature, water retention, bad sleep, chronic fatigue are all gone. Initially, I lost weight too and managed to keep the weight loss all these years. I look younger too but not sure if t3 can be credited with anti-aging!!
 

rei

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Joined
Aug 6, 2017
Messages
1,300
My autoimmune thyroid antibodies are also going through the roof so I don't see myself lowering my dose anytime soon under these conditions.
isn't this a sign your body thinks it gets too much thyroid and is trying to reduce it? What is your TSH and RT3?
 
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