Reversing Gynecomastia

[DankMemes]

This is a pretty embarrassing problem and is causing me a fair bit of grief. I'm about a year into peating and it's only starting appearing within the last 2 months or so.

My diet is ~4000cals a day, 2-3L zero fat milk, white table sugar, coffee, very brown and spotty organic bananas (only fruit I can tolerate and buy in bulk), carrot salad, coconut oil each meal, whiting fillets and bi weekly liver.

My nips get cone like and are very visible through my shirt, if they're hard when it's cold or I'm just out of the shower my chest looks completely normal, but I don't really want to be rubbing my nips in public

I've gained weight while peating (a fair bit of it being muscle), but not enough to warrant man boobs (can still see outline of abs). I've also cut back to lifting only once or twice a week down from 5 times, my workouts are strength based and I'm done within 40 minutes.

I'm really think there is something hormonal going on, but I feel better in almost every other marker for good health since peating, my teeth feel cleaner/stronger, my sleep is better, digestion is better, skin is clear, mood and energy are much better etc. I don't get why I would suddenly develop gynecomastia.

I think a lot of my problems stem from poor liver health. I had a stint with paleo and was very low carb, lots of pre/probiotics and did a 10 month course of Accutane, and apparently there's a connection between gyno and liver health.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 3-0032.pdf

Any suggestions would be helpful, I've got some progesterone on the way, hopefully that helps.

 

[answersfound]

Vitamin E

 

[DankMemes]

Topically or orally?

I've forgotten to list my supplements.

Thorne k2 liquid
1-2g aspirin daily with the k2
Lotioncrafter 95% vit E (taken orally)
thiroyd from Thailand 1-2 grains
4mg x3 cyproheptadine

 

[answersfound]

post 108069 Topically or orally?

I've forgotten to list my supplements.

Thorne k2 liquid
1-2g aspirin daily with the k2
Lotioncrafter 95% vit E (taken orally)
thiroyd from Thailand 1-2 grains
4mg x3 cyproheptadine

Too much aspirin, actually may be making the liver situation worse. I wouldn't go over 500 mg, but ask yourself if you need it at all. And that is a lot of cypro too. What is your temperature? Make sure to take the k and e away from each other and you also should take d with the k and a with the e. Other than that I would just focus on raising temp to 99. Maybe increase coffee intake. Also, I hope your not masturbating at all because it raises prolactin chronically.

 

[DankMemes]

post 108070 Too much aspirin, actually may be making the liver situation worse. I wouldn't go over 500 mg, but ask yourself if you need it at all. And that is a lot of cypro too. What is your temperature? Make sure to take the k and e away from each other and you also should take d with the k and a with the e. Other than that I would just focus on raising temp to 99. Maybe increase coffee intake. Also, I hope your not masturbating at all because it raises prolactin chronically.

Okay thanks for the advice. I actually don't enjoy taking aspirin, but it's a common thought on this forum that lots of aspirin really helps the liver and inhibits aromatase. LSD derived drugs (cypro) supposedly cause liver regeneration.

viewtopic.php?t=3398

I'm usually running around 36.5C (~98f) but thyroid gets me to 37degrees quite easily. I went through a phase with Matt Stone about 3 months ago and I was eating lots of corn pasta and cheese every day, I definitely got warmer and my digestion improved, but it's where all the weight gain began, So I'm back to skim milk coffees and fruit.

I've actually tried nofap but find it so difficult and the longest I've been is 20 days. I always thought it was a bit bro sciency but I guess there's nothing to lose from doing it.

I might actually cut cypro/aspirin for a while. I doubt there's a correlation but really wish I could just be fit and healthy eating a low pufa, high fruit and milk diet and not have a huge supp list.

 

[Nicholas]

weight gain is common when people switch to a purported Ray Peat diet. some will argue that it's a natural and good thing, but i'm not sure i believe that. are you sure the gynecomastia is not simply fat retention on your chest?
My guess is that your diet is off - probably eating more than you need to....and your macro ratios may be off, liquid imbalances, etc. not enough protein? serotonin/gut bacteria imbalanced...
these are things just off the top of my head.
substances like Taurine seem to cause less complications than substances like Aspirin/caffeine/thyroid in patients with energy disorders but target liver health in very similar ways. Same goes for Lysine as opposed to Cypro.

 

[answersfound]

post 108073

post 108070 Too much aspirin, actually may be making the liver situation worse. I wouldn't go over 500 mg, but ask yourself if you need it at all. And that is a lot of cypro too. What is your temperature? Make sure to take the k and e away from each other and you also should take d with the k and a with the e. Other than that I would just focus on raising temp to 99. Maybe increase coffee intake. Also, I hope your not masturbating at all because it raises prolactin chronically.

Okay thanks for the advice. I actually don't enjoy taking aspirin, but it's a common thought on this forum that lots of aspirin really helps the liver and inhibits aromatase. LSD derived drugs (cypro) supposedly cause liver regeneration.

https://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3398

I'm usually running around 36.5C (~98f) but thyroid gets me to 37degrees quite easily. I went through a phase with Matt Stone about 3 months ago and I was eating lots of corn pasta and cheese every day, I definitely got warmer and my digestion improved, but it's where all the weight gain began, So I'm back to skim milk coffees and fruit.

I've actually tried nofap but find it so difficult and the longest I've been is 20 days. I always thought it was a bit bro sciency but I guess there's nothing to lose from doing it.

I might actually cut cypro/aspirin for a while. I doubt there's a correlation but really wish I could just be fit and healthy eating a low pufa, high fruit and milk diet and not have a huge supp list.

Okay. You know your body best, so just listen to it, rather than follow a protocol or regimen mentioned on this forum. Don't override your body's communication signals. I think increasing coffee intake could be key for you. Studies should that masturbation does raise prolactin for a couple days so even though the nofap community is a little lost, they are still on the right track.

This is a great read:

http://www.health-science-spirit.com/healsex.html

 

[Sea]

I would continue taking aspirin as it opposes estrogen.

Some things to consider are replacing the milk with more solid foods until your default temperature is 99. Low fat string cheese, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, low fat cheeses, and lean meats are all options.

Ray Peat doesn't advise white sugar for long term consumption, or bananas. I would replace these with honey, concentrated orange juice, or orange juice which has properties than inhibit estrogen.

I don't know how much coffee you drink, but I think caffeine is the best thing for liver health. I use the Chameleon brand of cold brew coffee concentrate which has 1080mg caffeine/16 oz. With these I can reach over 3000 mg caffeine/day but I think you will notice a lot of benefit from just going over 1000mg. Other options that I like for caffeine are quadruple espresso shots which have around 300mg caffeine/4oz.

You might also try a vitamin A supplement as vitamin A opposes estrogen. I think vitamin A is more important than e or k2 for controlling estrogen.

Another thing to consider is an antibiotic. I think I remember you used antibiotics in the past, but if you haven't used it in a while it might offer more benefits now. I recommend minocycline.

Your diet also doesn't include much salt, so if you aren't adding a lot of salt to your foods, or eating salt separately throughout the day you may be deficient in salt which affects digestion, and could increase estrogen if you are deficient in it.

 

[DankMemes]

Yeah milk definitely isn't as warming as cheese but it's lower in fat and if I don't drink too much at once I'm pretty good.

I don't tolerate citrus fruits at all, I have a feeling it's to do with the acidity or something. Honey and oranges cause cystic acne, I tried straining and tested with multiple brands and juicing myself, it just doesn't work for me. I've read that bananas aren't optimal but they keep my digestion fast and don't elicit any negative response. I think Ray's issue with bananas is the industrialised pesticide ridden bananas, and the fact that most people eat them yellow when they're starchy.

I take 1/2 tsp of salt throughout the day and add it very liberally to any starchy foods like potato or rice. Is eating it to taste enough or should I eat more regardless if I'm not in the mood for something salty?

I get ~800mg of caffeine per day now, I'll try get over 1000mg.

Thanks for your advice! :)

 

[tca300]

You have been peating for about a year but went through a Matt Stone phase 3 months ago....... And developed ***s within the last 2 months......What Matt Stone recommends is not what Dr. Peat recommends. Matt Stone also has titties.. Perhaps it's contagious.

 

[EIRE24]

post 108081 Yeah milk definitely isn't as warming as cheese but it's lower in fat and if I don't drink too much at once I'm pretty good.

I don't tolerate citrus fruits at all, I have a feeling it's to do with the acidity or something. Honey and oranges cause cystic acne, I tried straining and tested with multiple brands and juicing myself, it just doesn't work for me. I've read that bananas aren't optimal but they keep my digestion fast and don't elicit any negative response. I think Ray's issue with bananas is the industrialised pesticide ridden bananas, and the fact that most people eat them yellow when they're starchy.

I take 1/2 tsp of salt throughout the day and add it very liberally to any starchy foods like potato or rice. Is eating it to taste enough or should I eat more regardless if I'm not in the mood for something salty?

I get ~800mg of caffeine per day now, I'll try get over 1000mg.

Thanks for your advice! :)

I think I get a similar thing with the acne from citrus and honey. Do you still suffer from acne or is it all gone as long as you avoid the citrus? I am thinking of starting a course of tetracycline for my acne but also not sure it is the best option due to side effects? I'd love to know what you think helped your acne if you have gotten rid of it.

Thanks a million,

Andrew

 

[DankMemes]

This is basically what my diet is like for those wondering

http://imgur.com/a/y0dNK

Maybe a bit of fish some days, or a few dates here and there. Added sugar is mainly to pre and post workout drinks that I also add BCAAs to.

I want to thank everyone for advice - A few things I'm going to do from here are

• Drop cypro for a while until hayfever/histamine symptoms show, then I'll increment 2mg at a time
• Continue with aspirin
• Increase caffeine intake to at least 1000mg/day
• Supplement taurine (been meaning to try this for a while for its liver benefits)
• Cease masturbation
• Cut added sucrose for a while

I've got some progesterone and estroban on the way too, there's quite a few testimonials for progesterone.

I took some photos as a before marker, in a few weeks after these changes I'll take some "after" shots if there's (hopefully) a difference.

post 108105
I think I get a similar thing with the acne from citrus and honey. Do you still suffer from acne or is it all gone as long as you avoid the citrus? I am thinking of starting a course of tetracycline for my acne but also not sure it is the best option due to side effects? I'd love to know what you think helped your acne if you have gotten rid of it.

No more acne since cutting citrus, vegetables and PUFA (including eggs). My skin is something that I'm very proud of, I dealt with pretty bad acne in the past which really hurt my self esteem and I still stress a bit too much about making sure I don't trigger a breakout. I would always get different breakouts depending on what triggered it, for example citrus and honey causes cysts on my cheeks, apples and fibers cause small whiteheads on my foreheads and PUFA causes inflamed pimples around the corner my mouth/along my jawline.

 

[PeatThemAll]

Have you tried low/no fat dairy? For example dry curd cottage cheese.
I know this in not as per the Peat line of thinking, have you tried cutting dairy out altogether?

 

[DankMemes]

post 108113 Have you tried low/no fat dairy? For example dry curd cottage cheese.
I know this in not as per the Peat line of thinking, have you tried cutting dairy out altogether?

I've contemplated this because during my low carb paleo days when I ate zero dairy I didn't have gyno whatsoever (but correlation does not equal causation). There's a bit of talk floating around that the estrogen in dairy can lead to gynecomastia, but from what Peat says, the progesterone content would nullify the estrogen present.

It could be vegan dogma so I'm a bit skeptical, I've given peat the benefit of the doubt seeing as his recommendations have helped me so much already.

 

[TheHound]

have you tried a zinc supplement and eating oysters?

 

[Peata]

post 108073

post 108070 Too much aspirin, actually may be making the liver situation worse. I wouldn't go over 500 mg, but ask yourself if you need it at all. And that is a lot of cypro too. What is your temperature? Make sure to take the k and e away from each other and you also should take d with the k and a with the e. Other than that I would just focus on raising temp to 99. Maybe increase coffee intake. Also, I hope your not masturbating at all because it raises prolactin chronically.

Okay thanks for the advice. I actually don't enjoy taking aspirin, but it's a common thought on this forum that lots of aspirin really helps the liver and inhibits aromatase. LSD derived drugs (cypro) supposedly cause liver regeneration.

viewtopic.php?t=3398

I'm usually running around 36.5C (~98f) but thyroid gets me to 37degrees quite easily. I went through a phase with Matt Stone about 3 months ago and I was eating lots of corn pasta and cheese every day, I definitely got warmer and my digestion improved, but it's where all the weight gain began, So I'm back to skim milk coffees and fruit.

I've actually tried nofap but find it so difficult and the longest I've been is 20 days. I always thought it was a bit bro sciency but I guess there's nothing to lose from doing it.

I might actually cut cypro/aspirin for a while. I doubt there's a correlation but really wish I could just be fit and healthy eating a low pufa, high fruit and milk diet and not have a huge supp list.

Just to be clear, how long have you been off the Matt Stone eating and back onto a lower fat, high carb diet?

 

[tca300]

post 108136

post 108073

post 108070 Too much aspirin, actually may be making the liver situation worse. I wouldn't go over 500 mg, but ask yourself if you need it at all. And that is a lot of cypro too. What is your temperature? Make sure to take the k and e away from each other and you also should take d with the k and a with the e. Other than that I would just focus on raising temp to 99. Maybe increase coffee intake. Also, I hope your not masturbating at all because it raises prolactin chronically.

Okay thanks for the advice. I actually don't enjoy taking aspirin, but it's a common thought on this forum that lots of aspirin really helps the liver and inhibits aromatase. LSD derived drugs (cypro) supposedly cause liver regeneration.

https://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3398

I'm usually running around 36.5C (~98f) but thyroid gets me to 37degrees quite easily. I went through a phase with Matt Stone about 3 months ago and I was eating lots of corn pasta and cheese every day, I definitely got warmer and my digestion improved, but it's where all the weight gain began, So I'm back to skim milk coffees and fruit.

I've actually tried nofap but find it so difficult and the longest I've been is 20 days. I always thought it was a bit bro sciency but I guess there's nothing to lose from doing it.

I might actually cut cypro/aspirin for a while. I doubt there's a correlation but really wish I could just be fit and healthy eating a low pufa, high fruit and milk diet and not have a huge supp list.

Just to be clear, how long have you been off the Matt Stone eating and back onto a lower fat, high carb diet?

He said he's been peating for a year.. Then 3 months ago went through a Matt Stone phase, THEN within the last two months started having boob issues... To not develope man boobs in the first 7 months, then change your diet and have a problem soon thereafter seems pretty obvious why he is now having problems. Eating starch and fatty cheese could easily cause man boobs imo. Ray has said that the carcinogenic action of the super high rise in insulin from starch can raise estrogen, and along with that eating a decent amount of fat which also raises estrogen, and serotonin, which can cause prolactin to rise.. It sucks but as soon as you start a stress response it seems to have a domino effect on the stress hormones. Oh ya and earlier you said you ate 4000 calories, but crono sayas 3000... Big difference

 

[tca300]

post 108143

post 108136

post 108073

post 108070 Too much aspirin, actually may be making the liver situation worse. I wouldn't go over 500 mg, but ask yourself if you need it at all. And that is a lot of cypro too. What is your temperature? Make sure to take the k and e away from each other and you also should take d with the k and a with the e. Other than that I would just focus on raising temp to 99. Maybe increase coffee intake. Also, I hope your not masturbating at all because it raises prolactin chronically.

Okay thanks for the advice. I actually don't enjoy taking aspirin, but it's a common thought on this forum that lots of aspirin really helps the liver and inhibits aromatase. LSD derived drugs (cypro) supposedly cause liver regeneration.

https://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3398

I'm usually running around 36.5C (~98f) but thyroid gets me to 37degrees quite easily. I went through a phase with Matt Stone about 3 months ago and I was eating lots of corn pasta and cheese every day, I definitely got warmer and my digestion improved, but it's where all the weight gain began, So I'm back to skim milk coffees and fruit.

I've actually tried nofap but find it so difficult and the longest I've been is 20 days. I always thought it was a bit bro sciency but I guess there's nothing to lose from doing it.

I might actually cut cypro/aspirin for a while. I doubt there's a correlation but really wish I could just be fit and healthy eating a low pufa, high fruit and milk diet and not have a huge supp list.

Just to be clear, how long have you been off the Matt Stone eating and back onto a lower fat, high carb diet?

He said he's been peating for a year.. Then 3 months ago went through a Matt Stone phase, THEN within the last two months started having boob issues... To not develope man boobs in the first 7 months, then change your diet and have a problem soon thereafter seems pretty obvious why he is now having problems. Eating starch and fatty cheese could easily cause man boobs imo. Ray has said that the carcinogenic action of the super high rise in insulin from starch can raise estrogen, and along with that eating a decent amount of fat which also raises estrogen, and serotonin, which can cause prolactin to rise.. It sucks but as soon as you start a stress response it seems to have a domino effect on the stress hormones. Oh ya and earlier you said you ate 4000 calories, but crono sayas 3000... Big difference

 

[tca300]

post 108144

post 108143

post 108136

post 108073

post 108070 Too much aspirin, actually may be making the liver situation worse. I wouldn't go over 500 mg, but ask yourself if you need it at all. And that is a lot of cypro too. What is your temperature? Make sure to take the k and e away from each other and you also should take d with the k and a with the e. Other than that I would just focus on raising temp to 99. Maybe increase coffee intake. Also, I hope your not masturbating at all because it raises prolactin chronically.

Okay thanks for the advice. I actually don't enjoy taking aspirin, but it's a common thought on this forum that lots of aspirin really helps the liver and inhibits aromatase. LSD derived drugs (cypro) supposedly cause liver regeneration.

https://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3398

I'm usually running around 36.5C (~98f) but thyroid gets me to 37degrees quite easily. I went through a phase with Matt Stone about 3 months ago and I was eating lots of corn pasta and cheese every day, I definitely got warmer and my digestion improved, but it's where all the weight gain began, So I'm back to skim milk coffees and fruit.

I've actually tried nofap but find it so difficult and the longest I've been is 20 days. I always thought it was a bit bro sciency but I guess there's nothing to lose from doing it.

I might actually cut cypro/aspirin for a while. I doubt there's a correlation but really wish I could just be fit and healthy eating a low pufa, high fruit and milk diet and not have a huge supp list.

Just to be clear, how long have you been off the Matt Stone eating and back onto a lower fat, high carb diet?

He said he's been peating for a year.. Then 3 months ago went through a Matt Stone phase, THEN within the last two months started having boob issues... To not develope man boobs in the first 7 months, then change your diet and have a problem soon thereafter seems pretty obvious why he is now having problems. Eating starch and fatty cheese could easily cause man boobs imo. Ray has said that the carcinogenic action of the super high rise in insulin from starch can raise estrogen, and along with that eating a decent amount of fat which also raises estrogen, and serotonin, which can cause prolactin to rise.. It sucks but as soon as you start a stress response it seems to have a domino effect on the stress hormones. Oh ya and earlier you said you ate 4000 calories, but crono sayas 3000... Big difference..

 

[tca300]

post 108145

post 108144

post 108143

post 108136

post 108073

post 108070 Too much aspirin, actually may be making the liver situation worse. I wouldn't go over 500 mg, but ask yourself if you need it at all. And that is a lot of cypro too. What is your temperature? Make sure to take the k and e away from each other and you also should take d with the k and a with the e. Other than that I would just focus on raising temp to 99. Maybe increase coffee intake. Also, I hope your not masturbating at all because it raises prolactin chronically.

Okay thanks for the advice. I actually don't enjoy taking aspirin, but it's a common thought on this forum that lots of aspirin really helps the liver and inhibits aromatase. LSD derived drugs (cypro) supposedly cause liver regeneration.

https://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3398

I'm usually running around 36.5C (~98f) but thyroid gets me to 37degrees quite easily. I went through a phase with Matt Stone about 3 months ago and I was eating lots of corn pasta and cheese every day, I definitely got warmer and my digestion improved, but it's where all the weight gain began, So I'm back to skim milk coffees and fruit.

I've actually tried nofap but find it so difficult and the longest I've been is 20 days. I always thought it was a bit bro sciency but I guess there's nothing to lose from doing it.

I might actually cut cypro/aspirin for a while. I doubt there's a correlation but really wish I could just be fit and healthy eating a low pufa, high fruit and milk diet and not have a huge supp list.

Just to be clear, how long have you been off the Matt Stone eating and back onto a lower fat, high carb diet?

He said he's been peating for a year.. Then 3 months ago went through a Matt Stone phase, THEN within the last 2 months started having boob issues... To not develope man boobs in the first 7 months, then change your diet and have a problem soon thereafter seems pretty obvious why he is now having problems. Eating starch and fatty cheese could easily cause man boobs imo. Ray has said that the carcinogenic action of the super high rise in insulin from starch can raise estrogen, and along with that eating a decent amount of fat which also raises estrogen, and serotonin, which can cause prolactin to rise.. It sucks but as soon as you start a stress response it seems to have a domino effect on the stress hormones. Oh ya and earlier you said you ate 4000 calories, but crono says 3000... Big difference.. Not trying to be rude, just observing, also JUST OBSERVING Josh Ruben who also eats starch and a lot of fat ALSO has man boobs.. Seems to be very contagious indeed. But luckily based on study "male mice who eat adequate protein, get adequate vitamins and minerals, have a healthy bowel transit time via raw carrot salads and or phyllium husk, eat a low fat, low starch, high sucrose diet, get more calcium than phosphorus, and adequate red light, seem to be immune to the moobs virus." :Extremelyawsome Terrance 2008.