Thyroid Combined With Pregnenolone Cause Heart Palpitations?

Diokine

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I have dealt with palpitations and PVC's for nearly most of my life, for the longest time I thought it was normal to be so aware of your heartbeat. They have gotten much better, and I think I have a good idea of what causes them. I think it's very much related to gut health and serotonin. Obviously a lot of factors are in play, but excessive serotonin and the physiological changes to the cardiac electrical system I think are the primary culprit.

Estrogen in this sense is actually partially ameliorative towards arrhythmia, and antagonizing estrogen with pregnenolone can definitely bring about some palpitations.

FWIW I haven't really noticed a direct correlation in the arryhtmia to magnesium levels. There is a qualitative difference in how they feel when magnesium or potassium is not adequate, but I was never able to eliminate them and get that "happy heart loose chest" feeling with supplementing them alone. I was taking in lots of magnesium bicarbonate, epsom salt baths, veggie broths, so my mineral levels I'm sure were adequate.

EDIT: Have you noticed how your cardiac system responds to methylene blue? I am extremely sensitive (heart wise) to it and I think the fact that I get palpitations so easily is related to this.
 

Simonsays

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Obviously a lot of factors are in play, but excessive serotonin and the physiological changes to the cardiac electrical system I think are the primary culprit.

Estrogen in this sense is actually partially ameliorative towards arrhythmia, and antagonizing estrogen with pregnenolone can definitely bring about some palpitations.

Very interesting
 
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A really easy way to get a good amount of magnesium in your system is to switch from regular coffee to good espresso. If you compare the magnesium contents in espresso versus regular drip coffee, it's got a lot more. I noticed that the more espresso I drink, the more relaxed I am - no caffeine triggering adrenaline. In fact, I could drink a cup of espresso and go take a nap - LOL :)

Ray Peat: "The high temperature of espresso gets the most caffeine, lower temperature processes get the minerals and vitamins (mostly niacin) and aroma, but a little less of the caffeine."
 

johnsmith

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Pansterone started giving me heart palpitations (skipped beats) as well, ever since I got a concussion 1 year ago.

I tried stopping Pansterone and the palpitations stopped completely, but I got depressed. Im now back on it, and lowered the dose to 1 drop a day. And I also started talking 100mg of Magnesium glycinate daily.

I thought it might be the DHEA but I guess you people are saying its the pregnenolone. But I'm still curious to try pregnenolone on its own.

I've stopped Tocovit for the fear its lowering estrogen too much, and it looks like @Soren suspects it might be lowering cortisol too much.

I even noticed a few palpitations when I took a couple drops of Metergoline.

Also NDT can raise stress hormones if the T4 is accumulating and causing RT3 to rise. Ray only takes thyroid during the winter nowadays and he recommends T3 during the day and a supplement like Novotiral in the evening. And how much of each is obviously individual.

Im on Tyromax(t3/t4) right now and what you said here makes me want to start to experiment with Tyronene(just T3) as well. Would any one agree to suggest this? Im trying to heal my thyroid with "low level visible red light therapy" right now anyways.
 
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Waynish

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A really easy way to get a good amount of magnesium in your system is to switch from regular coffee to good espresso. If you compare the magnesium contents in espresso versus regular drip coffee, it's got a lot more. I noticed that the more espresso I drink, the more relaxed I am - no caffeine triggering adrenaline. In fact, I could drink a cup of espresso and go take a nap - LOL :)

With all the coffee talk around here it always surprised me how little people are obsessed with the type. An espresso after a meal in Melbourne or Italy is just a different thing all together than the brown liquid I see people consuming as if it were a meal in many places...
 
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Soren

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Pansterone started giving me heart palpitations (skipped beats) as well, ever since I got a concussion 1 year ago.

I tried stopping Pansterone and the palpitations stopped completely, but I got depressed. Im now back on it, and lowered the dose to 1 drop a day. And I also started talking 100mg of Magnesium glycinate daily.

I thought it might be the DHEA but I guess you people are saying its the pregnenolone. But I'm still curious to try pregnenolone on its own.

I've stopped Tocovit for the fear its lowering estrogen too much, and it looks like @Soren suspects it might be lowering cortisol too much.

I even noticed a few palpitations when I took a couple drops of Metergoline.



Im on Tyromax(t3/t4) right now and what you said here makes me want to start to experiment with Tyronene(just T3) as well. Would any one agree to suggest this? Im trying to heal my thyroid with "low level visible red light therapy" right now anyways.


Hi Johnsmith. Its funny you mention Metergoline causing palpitations they also did for me, usually about 12-24 hours later. Pansterone gave me palpitations too, as well as Tyromax and desiccated thyroid. I mention cortisol because I'm trying to see what could be a common factor in all of these supplements because they all seem to have the same result for me. I thought briefly it might be DSMO but I still take other things containing DSMO and they do not seem to give me heart palpitations. However all of the ones that do give me palpitations also have been shown to lower cortisol and estrogen. I've also had the symptoms of too low estrogen before in the form of severe muscle aches especially in my feet. The only thing that hasn't given me these symptoms in treatment for my thyroid is light therapy.

Some have said to me that it might be down to not getting enough nutrition or carbs while supplementing with things that increase metabolism, however I very much doubt this as I have a very carb heavy diet; coke, orange juice, fruit, all day every day. Some have said due to low magnesium which I feel might have some merit although I supplement daily with magnesium oil and have doing many magnesium flake baths for a long time now. Possibly something is blocking adequate magnesium retention? But I have no idea what that could be.

My heart rate seems permanently stuck at 65bpm for now, still trying to figure out the best approach to get it elevated, its a difficult progress to be sure, but I think somewhere there lies a solution.

Keep us updated on your progress would be interesting to see how these treatments go for you, possibly there is the same cause for both of us. Thanks.
 
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Soren

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I have finally been able to take t3 and t4 in a ratio of 2:1 and not have heart palpitations or chest pain. It seems that the problem was lack of magnesium but it appears that the issue was how I was taking it. When I supplemented with topical magnesium oil and magnesium flake baths I did not seem to stop me from getting heart palpitations while taking T3/T4 no matter how much coffee i drank or magnesium oil i rubbed on wrists. However I recently started taking a an oral calcium supplement that also happened to have magnesium (as many calcium supplements do.)

I decided to start taking t3 and t4 combo again and have been doing so for about the past month. Usually about 4-5 days into supplementation with t3/t4 I get the first signs of chest pain. This time I found it didn't happen. I also found that if there was a day where I did not take the magnesium/calcium combo the first signs of issues with my chest would quickly return.

Hopefully all things continue well but its been a very interesting process that has taken me many years to get to the point where I feel I can use thyroid without having any issues. Just goes to show that when it comes to health so much depends on experimentation and a continual process of trial and error (although a very cautious process).

The supplement I have been taking is Magnesium Carbonate 300mg per day and Calcium Carbonate 600mg a day separated into three doses. My t3/t4 dose is one dose of 3 mcg t3 and 6 mcg t4 in the morning and the same before bed. As always with t3/t4 I started with a very low dose for a few weeks before increasing to the current dose.


Hope this is helpful to someone as I know many suffer with supplementing with thyroid as have I.
 

johnsmith

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Here's an update on my heart palpitations. I saw a heart specialist and he found a small hole in my heart. He told me %10 of the population has one, and its nothing to worry about. I don't get heart palpitations anymore anyways. All the substances that I thought were giving me heart palpitations, don't anymore.
 
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Soren

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Here's an update on my heart palpitations. I saw a heart specialist and he found a small hole in my heart. He told me %10 of the population has one, and its nothing to worry about. I don't get heart palpitations anymore anyways. All the substances that I thought were giving me heart palpitations, don't anymore.

Hi John, are you saying that you still take the supplements that you were taking before but now you don't experience any palpitations? What do you think might have been the cause before, psychosomatic?
 

Wagner83

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I have dealt with palpitations and PVC's for nearly most of my life, for the longest time I thought it was normal to be so aware of your heartbeat. They have gotten much better, and I think I have a good idea of what causes them. I think it's very much related to gut health and serotonin. Obviously a lot of factors are in play, but excessive serotonin and the physiological changes to the cardiac electrical system I think are the primary culprit.

Estrogen in this sense is actually partially ameliorative towards arrhythmia, and antagonizing estrogen with pregnenolone can definitely bring about some palpitations.

FWIW I haven't really noticed a direct correlation in the arryhtmia to magnesium levels. There is a qualitative difference in how they feel when magnesium or potassium is not adequate, but I was never able to eliminate them and get that "happy heart loose chest" feeling with supplementing them alone. I was taking in lots of magnesium bicarbonate, epsom salt baths, veggie broths, so my mineral levels I'm sure were adequate.

EDIT: Have you noticed how your cardiac system responds to methylene blue? I am extremely sensitive (heart wise) to it and I think the fact that I get palpitations so easily is related to this.
I seem to have similar things with MB (which I otherwise like), however I did not understand how the mb you take is related to serotonin and gut health? Do you think mb increases serotonin? I don't see how it would affect gut health besides being anti fungal.

I have finally been able to take t3 and t4 in a ratio of 2:1 and not have heart palpitations or chest pain.
What are the benefits you notice from taking thyroid?
 

Broken man

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I have finally been able to take t3 and t4 in a ratio of 2:1 and not have heart palpitations or chest pain. It seems that the problem was lack of magnesium but it appears that the issue was how I was taking it. When I supplemented with topical magnesium oil and magnesium flake baths I did not seem to stop me from getting heart palpitations while taking T3/T4 no matter how much coffee i drank or magnesium oil i rubbed on wrists. However I recently started taking a an oral calcium supplement that also happened to have magnesium (as many calcium supplements do.)

I decided to start taking t3 and t4 combo again and have been doing so for about the past month. Usually about 4-5 days into supplementation with t3/t4 I get the first signs of chest pain. This time I found it didn't happen. I also found that if there was a day where I did not take the magnesium/calcium combo the first signs of issues with my chest would quickly return.

Hopefully all things continue well but its been a very interesting process that has taken me many years to get to the point where I feel I can use thyroid without having any issues. Just goes to show that when it comes to health so much depends on experimentation and a continual process of trial and error (although a very cautious process).

The supplement I have been taking is Magnesium Carbonate 300mg per day and Calcium Carbonate 600mg a day separated into three doses. My t3/t4 dose is one dose of 3 mcg t3 and 6 mcg t4 in the morning and the same before bed. As always with t3/t4 I started with a very low dose for a few weeks before increasing to the current dose.


Hope this is helpful to someone as I know many suffer with supplementing with thyroid as have I.
Palpitations are often from low magnesium but for the best results with magnesium I think that its good take it with taurine because taurine balances electrolytes in the body. About Mag carbonate, I have it too and there is written that you need about 1200 mg to get 400 elemental magnesium so I think you need more mag, atleast 300 elemental magnesium daily. When I started with Androsterone, I was taking Mag glycinate with teaspoon and I was taking about 3 a day.
 
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Soren

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What are the benefits you notice from taking thyroid?

So far quite a few; more energy, had some fat loss due to faster metabolism, more of an appetite, healthier skin (as long as I have sufficient vitamin a). All these benefits I think only come when one has sufficient food/nutrient intake. Without sufficient food and nutrients, treatment with thyroid tends to increase stress.
 
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Soren

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Palpitations are often from low magnesium but for the best results with magnesium I think that its good take it with taurine because taurine balances electrolytes in the body. About Mag carbonate, I have it too and there is written that you need about 1200 mg to get 400 elemental magnesium so I think you need more mag, atleast 300 elemental magnesium daily. When I started with Androsterone, I was taking Mag glycinate with teaspoon and I was taking about 3 a day.

Thanks for the advice with regards to taurine, if i take too much magnesium it has a laxative effect maybe taurine can help with that as it helps with absorption.
 

Broken man

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Thanks for the advice with regards to taurine, if i take too much magnesium it has a laxative effect maybe taurine can help with that as it helps with absorption.
Pregnenolone, Kuinone, thyroid, Androsterone, caffeine, niacinamide all should help with magnesium retention but about Mag carbonate, I found that its damaging my intestines so I switch to Mag glycinate and Mag chloride and I dont have problems now.
 
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Soren

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Pregnenolone, Kuinone, thyroid, Androsterone, caffeine, niacinamide all should help with magnesium retention but about Mag carbonate, I found that its damaging my intestines so I switch to Mag glycinate and Mag chloride and I dont have problems now.

Are you sure all those supplements help retain magnesium? I have read on the forum that anything that increases metabolism such as thyroid for example, uses up magnesium quicker hence the need to supplement for some people. The heart palpitations that I attributed to magnesium defficiency all came about during supplementation with thyroid, and pregnenolone, androsterone, although not with niacinamide, kuinone, and caffeine (coffee contains magnesium so this would make sense). I guess if these supplements increase the use of it that would cause retention although I feel my issue was an insufficient amount rather than retention.

Thanks for the heads up on Mag carbonate. Any idea why Mag Carb would cause intestine damage, is there research to show this? I do not know much about the different types of magnesium. Also is there any particular source of mag glycinate/chloride you would recommend?
 

Broken man

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Are you sure all those supplements help retain magnesium? I have read on the forum that anything that increases metabolism such as thyroid for example, uses up magnesium quicker hence the need to supplement for some people. The heart palpitations that I attributed to magnesium defficiency all came about during supplementation with thyroid, and pregnenolone, androsterone, although not with niacinamide, kuinone, and caffeine (coffee contains magnesium so this would make sense). I guess if these supplements increase the use of it that would cause retention although I feel my issue was an insufficient amount rather than retention.

Thanks for the heads up on Mag carbonate. Any idea why Mag Carb would cause intestine damage, is there research to show this? I do not know much about the different types of magnesium. Also is there any particular source of mag glycinate/chloride you would recommend?
Haidut wrote that it should help, everything which increase ATP should help with mag retention. You have right that when you are using metabolism booster, you need more of mag because body is using it but you are using it more effectively at the same time. When you will search through Haidut´s post you will find it. Ray said that he is taking small amount of T3 with mag for better retention and he said that Mag carbonate is okay but could irritate your intestines. I dont know about research behind this.
 

ddjd

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Haven't posted in this thread in a long time. Just thought I'd post an update and ask for some advice.

I haven't used any NDT or Pregnenolone for about 3 and half months. At first this definitely reduced my heart palpitations but I would still find during times of acute stress, or exercise I tended to get palpitations. Following the advice on this forum I believed that it was a magnesium deficiency. I have been supplementing with magnesium oil, magnesium flakes in baths as well as swimming in the sea for the past couple of months and I feel this has definitely improved things.

However, something interesting happened the other day. I tried half a dose of haidut's vitamin E product and later that day I had the same kind of heart palpitations I'd had from NDT. I didn't think anything of it at first, it was only when I had the same amount of vitamin e a few days later and the same thing occurred that I thought it was more than a coincidence. These palpitations happened the same way as when I was taking NDT, a small amount of acute mental stress would tend to trigger them.

My question is, is it possible that vitamin E could somehow be causing my heart palpitations, by lowering cortisol too much for example or through some other mechanism. Thanks.
i wonder if sometimes a lack of cortisol can cause palpitations. you said you were taking pregnenolone long before you took the ndt, and the ndt is what started the palpitations. thyroid hormone uses up cortisol, so i would have suggested that you actually increased your dose of pregnenolone and see if that took care of the palpitations. pregnenolone would increase cortisol enough for the thyroid hormones needs. i often get palpitations from t3 and i just take pregnenolone to raise cortisol and they stop.
 

AdoTintor

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Am taking Tyromix and Progenolone and I just got this exact thing while playing football - heart palpitations of the never-before kind. I came in and booted up the forum - got this thread - took a couple of magnesium threonate and its back to completely stable. Probably a bit far to say you saved my life but you know I am pretty glad this resource is here.

Amazing how much Mg these must be using, I took 144mg of Magnesium L-Threonate at beginning of day.
 

Waynish

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Am taking Tyromix and Progenolone and I just got this exact thing while playing football - heart palpitations of the never-before kind. I came in and booted up the forum - got this thread - took a couple of magnesium threonate and its back to completely stable. Probably a bit far to say you saved my life but you know I am pretty glad this resource is here.

Amazing how much Mg these must be using, I took 144mg of Magnesium L-Threonate at beginning of day.

Messing with thyroid while doing serious exercise seems unwise. Pregnenolone (I assume you mean) is for the recovery - take it when the game is over.
 

Ableton

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I also had mild heart palpitations today. First time I used pansterone and tyromix the same day. Scary
 

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