The Abundant Energy Legacy

[Vins7]

For anyone who missed the thread, I am trying the CLF Protocol for 30 days and report how I am feeling.

Your Opinions On The CLF Protocol by Matt Blackburn

CLF protocol:
2 x 1500 mg niacinamide
4 x 300 mg magnesiumbisglycinate
2 x 900 IU vitamin E
1 x 1000 mcg K2-7 (sublingually)

Personal Additions:
4 x 500 mg thiamin HCL
1 x 5 mg of biotin

Avoidance of:
Supplemental vitamin D3, ascorbic acid, citric acid, calcium, iron, fish-oil and molybdenum.

My dietary items:
Basmati rice, canned peaches, apple sauce, clementine and pomegranate juice, 2 lbs of lean beef a day, mineral water, coffee, salt.
I know Matt pushes high copper intake, but I am more cautious of that, because I ran into problems with histapenia before due to high copper intake.

I‘ll add an oz of organic chicken liver instead for retinol, folate, choline and biotin, because it‘s pretty low copper. Maybe adding in half an oz of beef liver here and there later on.

Dont you take a zinc supplement? I thought that It help you a lot for having good, energy, mood and libido.
Dont you eat any dairy? How do you get enough calcium? Is not your relation fosfate/calcium a bit high?
How did you discover that you was suffering histapenia? What symptoms make you suspect It?
Thanks Sinatra, i'm only trying to understand things and experiences for trying improve my health.

 

[youngsinatra]

Dont you take a zinc supplement? I thought that It help you a lot for having good, energy, mood and libido.
Dont you eat any dairy? How do you get enough calcium? Is not your relation fosfate/calcium a bit high?
How did you discover that you was suffering histapenia? What symptoms make you suspect It?
Thanks Sinatra, i'm only trying to understand things and experiences for trying improve my health.

I stopped the CLF protocol. I need a more specific protocol for my health challenges.

I am back on supplemental zinc for a few days and I feel way way better. I feel warm, my digestion improves, my libido is higher, more mental clarity, crushed anxiety, more motivation, better mood.
I use 25mg of zincbisglycinate in the morning and before bed. If I stop the zinc I require tons of niacinamide to keep methyl groups down. I will keep the zinc and drop the B3 for now, as it seems that zinc works better and also probably works by fixing the underlying zinc-copper imbalance.

I don't consume any dairy due to intolerance. I consume mineral water, which supplies 1200mg of ionic calcium a day for me.

I discovered orthomolecular treatment and found information on methylation and different phenotypes of it.

I matched with almost all symptoms of histapenia.
Namely: Anxiety, paranoia, disturbed visual and auditative perception, low libido, inability to reach orgasm, free floating feeling mixed with vertigo, ringing in ears, cold hands and feet, inability to sit still, overstimulated mind while still being really fatigued, sometimes phases of almost mania like energy, thoughts of grandiour, heavy body hair on shoulders and back, insomnia, fatigue.

 

[NodeCerebri]

Thanks man. Will definitely train more frequent once I get out of the current quarantine. After that I'll get a certificate for being "recovered from COVID" and then I can train at the gym without testing each time. Will do a upper-lower split 3-4 times a day probably.

I guess you don’t have to get a specific certificate, as far as I know the positive PCR test digital or on paper is enough?

 

[youngsinatra]

I experimented the last few days with glycine as a methyl buffer, but niacinamide seems much more impactful. Zinc also helps, but simple niacinamide reigns supreme as well.

I am confused and don't know what's the best thing to do. Chris Masterjohn scared me a bit on the potential of niacinamide causing fatty liver and other methylation problems, yet I also read the books from Dr. Hoffer who used high doses of B3 and it seems overwhelmingly safe.

I might begin to believe that the results of B3 can hardly be replicated otherwise.

 

[Razvan]

I experimented the last few days with glycine as a methyl buffer, but niacinamide seems much more impactful. Zinc also helps, but simple niacinamide reigns supreme as well.

I am confused and don't know what's the best thing to do. Chris Masterjohn scared me a bit on the potential of niacinamide causing fatty liver and other methylation problems, yet I also read the books from Dr. Hoffer who used high doses of B3 and it seems overwhelmingly safe.

I might begin to believe that the results of B3 can hardly be replicated otherwise.

Yes , B3 is the strongest methyl buffer,I think is the most well round supplement you can find cause can help in so many ways. B3 with B1 are key to deactivate estrogen from the liver and I think is very safe up to 5-6 grams.

 

[youngsinatra]

Yes , B3 is the strongest methyl buffer,I think is the most well round supplement you can find cause can help in so many ways. B3 with B1 are key to deactivate estrogen from the liver and I think is very safe up to 5-6 grams.

Thanks mate.
I am doing pretty well on 3 x 1 gram of B3 a day coupled with 3 x 500mg B1.
I also began taking 3 x 400 IU of alpha-tocopherols to reduce estrogen, as estrogen raises unbound copper.

Dr. Hoffer always used vitamin C together with niacinamide. (3 grams each, so I will try this too maybe, have all the material at home lol)

 

[redsun]

I experimented the last few days with glycine as a methyl buffer, but niacinamide seems much more impactful. Zinc also helps, but simple niacinamide reigns supreme as well.

I am confused and don't know what's the best thing to do. Chris Masterjohn scared me a bit on the potential of niacinamide causing fatty liver and other methylation problems, yet I also read the books from Dr. Hoffer who used high doses of B3 and it seems overwhelmingly safe.

I might begin to believe that the results of B3 can hardly be replicated otherwise.

Its because your using B3 at a dose where it will have a pharmalogical effect rather than a natural one. You can only replicate the effects of medicine by continually taking it.

High doses of niacinamide would be expected to acutely inhibit COMT activity and other methyltransferases, leading to increase brain dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and histamine. Maybe it will feel good for awhile but not forever. I also used to take high doses of niacinamide (1g a day) but eventually could not anymore, largely because of terrible undermethylation symptoms.

 

[gaze]

how was your covid experience ?

 

[youngsinatra]

Its because your using B3 at a dose where it will have a pharmalogical effect rather than a natural one. You can only replicate the effects of medicine by continually taking it.

High doses of niacinamide would be expected to acutely inhibit COMT activity and other methyltransferases, leading to increase brain dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and histamine. Maybe it will feel good for awhile but not forever. I also used to take high doses of niacinamide (1g a day) but eventually could not anymore, largely because of terrible undermethylation symptoms.

Thanks for your reply, redsun. I am wondering why seemingly many people stay well on year-long and sometimes even life-long treatment with big doses of niacin, like those patients of Abram Hoffer who became doctors and lived a normal life, even though they were schizophrenic before starting this treatment. Is it possible that those patients were chronically overmethylating and thus niacin helped them by clearing the high amounts of excess methyl group without causing too much demethylation. In other words, the niacin might have reduced their methyl pool to that of a normal person, but in a normal methylated state or even undermethylated, the same treatment could cause real bad side effects, because it would drop the methyl pool too low. Maybe I am just reasoning in the wrong direction. Any response is highly appreciated. :)

I just cannot wrap my mind around the framework, that a niacin-induced increase in dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine would help a overmethylated person so much that it relieves symptoms of psychosis or schizophrenia.

 

[youngsinatra]

how was your covid experience ?

I had a slightly running nose, and elevated body temperature for 2 hours (37.6 C). I had episodes of chills with lower body temperature. I slept a bit longer each night, but slept really deep and woke up pretty refreshed and had quite a lot of energy.
I am almost over my quarantine, which will end next tuesday and I must say that I am happy to go back to work soon and see my friends again.

 

[redsun]

Thanks for your reply, redsun. I am wondering why seemingly many people stay well on year-long and sometimes even life-long treatment with big doses of niacin, like those patients of Abram Hoffer who became doctors and lived a normal life, even though they were schizophrenic before starting this treatment. Is it possible that those patients were chronically overmethylating and thus niacin helped them by clearing the high amounts of excess methyl group without causing too much demethylation. In other words, the niacin might have reduced their methyl pool to that of a normal person, but in a normal methylated state or even undermethylated, the same treatment could cause real bad side effects, because it would drop the methyl pool too low. Maybe I am just reasoning in the wrong direction. Any response is highly appreciated. :)

I just cannot wrap my mind around the framework, that a niacin-induced increase in dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine would help a overmethylated person so much that it relieves symptoms of psychosis or schizophrenia.

Overmethylated individuals see relief from their symptoms because niacinamide raises histamine (not because of what else it does), which has an anti-psychotic effect because they have it too low to effectively regulate neurotransmitter systems and certain brain regions. When histamine is too high, you get the opposite end of symptoms which is just as bad in its own way. Due to a diet low in animal protein, poor zinc:copper ratio, low folate diet, and genetic mutations in histamine metabolism related enzymes and methylation enzymes, someone can be more prone to overmethylation. Doesnt mean they will exhibit symptoms.

Raising low histamine to normal levels would be expected to reduce psychotic symptoms, and all other issues related to overmethylation.

I doubt you are still benefitting directly from more histamine from the B3 but rather the higher catecholamines and serotonin and perhaps more hormones because NAD is a cofactor needed to make steroid hormones. But if you stopped taking it, these things would normalize eventually. I know this can be complicated.

 

[youngsinatra]

Overmethylated individuals see relief from their symptoms because niacinamide raises histamine (not because of what else it does), which has an anti-psychotic effect because they have it too low to effectively regulate neurotransmitter systems and certain brain regions. When histamine is too high, you get the opposite end of symptoms which is just as bad in its own way. Due to a diet low in animal protein, poor zinc:copper ratio, low folate diet, and genetic mutations in histamine metabolism related enzymes and methylation enzymes, someone can be more prone to overmethylation. Doesnt mean they will exhibit symptoms.

Raising low histamine to normal levels would be expected to reduce psychotic symptoms, and all other issues related to overmethylation.

I doubt you are still benefitting directly from more histamine from the B3 but rather the higher catecholamines and serotonin and perhaps more hormones because NAD is a cofactor needed to make steroid hormones. But if you stopped taking it, these things would normalize eventually. I know this can be complicated.

Thanks so much redsun.

Will contemplate on the things you said. I am a bit confused and need to think about it.

 

[youngsinatra]

Okay, so I already eat a lot of lean beef, which is rich in zinc (40mg dietary intake), choline, B-vitamins. I will try to increase folate intake, which is suboptimal at the moment. Maybe adding some fresh cooked spinach to my beef could fix that. I think that my diet would balance zinc:copper with time, just fine.

In the meanwhile I still feel in need of some extra support to not fall back into this web of symptoms of overmethylation or copper toxicity.

I would like to continue with 3 x 1 gr. B3 + 3 x 1 gr. ascorbic acid for now. It really helps with symptomatic relief, especially with my ringing in ears, which is like 90% reduced after ingesting a gram of B3+C.
It's much more effective if I use B3 with added vitamin C, which is somewhat weird, because it is an anti-histamine, but maybe also can aid in raising histamine by lowering serum copper.

I still believe that copper is at the core of all of this. So maybe some mild copper chelation with ascorbic acid + high zinc and low copper diet could help.

 

[youngsinatra]

Felt great the last days. Was finally able to reach orgasms again, felt warmer, increased pulse, more energy, almost no anxiety, much reduced ringing in ears and less perceived hypoglycemia.

Currently using:
3 x 1 gram niacinamide
50mg zincbisglycinate before bed
+ 40mg dietary zinc from lean beef

Still unsure about ascorbic acid usage, seems to help sometimes, but also lowers histamines levels, which I'm trying to increase.

 

[youngsinatra]

Quick Update:

I am feeling really well on the zinc. I tried a few days without B3 and I didn't feel the need for it to be honest. Total zinc intake (diet + supp) is around 100mg, total copper intake is 2.5mg.

I think histamines are rising and I am feeling really good mentally. Still working on shortening my long time needed to orgasm, but the needle is moving there slowly!

 

[youngsinatra]

Good update!
It seems like my diarrhea is completely gone and I was able to drink skim milk for 3 days straight without any symptoms so far. (Couldn‘t tolerate it since childhood)

 

[Razvan]

Good update!
It seems like my diarrhea is completely gone and I was able to drink skim milk for 3 days straight without any symptoms so far. (Couldn‘t tolerate it since childhood)

Perfect,good choice to incorporate milk into your diet.

 

[youngsinatra]

Perfect,good choice to incorporate milk into your diet.

Yeah. Love warm milk with salted honey. Might try a milk shake today with skim milk, bananas and honey.

 

[MattyG27]

Yeah. Love warm milk with salted honey. Might try a milk shake today with skim milk, bananas and honey.

Hey man, just read thru this thread when I was searching about info on the RCP. Was wondering what got you onto trying all these different protocols? Meaning what were your issues?

 

[aniciete]

No I never tolerated dairy well, even back in childhood. I also remember that I never craved any dairy and especially not cheese, even though I am a real rarity in my dutch family, because they truely love that stuff.

I really crave mineral-water though, probably for the calcium. I get 1500mg a day roughly.

Do you mind sharing the symptoms you get from dairy? Thank you