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InChristAlone

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Hey there Way,
I am also looking to titrate up thiamine hcl, be aware it can cause some paradoxical reactions! I know those of us with sensitive nervous systems and anxiety tend to get scared when new symptoms pop up. But I have had some pretty big gains even despite it. After feeling like I didn't have energy even to go for a walk for months, I cleaned for 6 hours straight. Also I feel like I'm not stopping breathing in my sleep as much, which was honestly getting pretty scary. I am only focusing on b vitamins right now, don't want to complicate anything or add anything in that could cause me to get confused on what is doing what. I take 1 gram vitamin C in the morning and that's it I take nothing else besides mag oil on my skin.
 
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theonlyway

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Hey there Way,
I am also looking to titrate up thiamine hcl, be aware it can cause some paradoxical reactions! I know those of us with sensitive nervous systems and anxiety tend to get scared when new symptoms pop up. But I have had some pretty big gains even despite it. After feeling like I didn't have energy even to go for a walk for months, I cleaned for 6 hours straight. Also I feel like I'm not stopping breathing in my sleep as much, which was honestly getting pretty scary. I am only focusing on b vitamins right now, don't want to complicate anything or add anything in that could cause me to get confused on what is doing what. I take 1 gram vitamin C in the morning and that's it I take nothing else besides mag oil on my skin.

That sounds relieving to hear. I’ve listened to the reactions and how we typically have to push through them. I just don’t want to get palpitations. I don’t recall ever having poor reactions to b vitamins but just want to try and mitigate any potential issue. What B’s are you using? Did you start under 100 for thiamine? I have topical mag too and epsom
 

mostlylurking

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Well you only need a little glutathione to cleave the thiamine off inside the cell i believe. It tends to lower your status but as i said with repeated use glutathione goes up and levels normalize. This i how i understand it and is very much in line with my experience. I used it for many months and only after a month did i get the full effects, To me only TTFD worked while HCL did NOTHING. If you experience headaches you may split/break a capsule and divide into smaller piles.
I got excellent results from high dose thiamine hcl (with additional magnesium glycine and a good B-complex). I would consider TTFD again if I was in trouble, but I'm doing well with the thiamine hcl. It does require a lot more of thiamine hcl. I've read that TTFD does work for some people where the hcl does not work; something about being able to skip a step somewhere? I think it's really important to listen to your body and try to understand what works for you specifically.
 
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theonlyway

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Yes, sounds like it could be a thiamine deficiency/functional blockage.

Are you consuming dairy? Are you drinking orange juice? If yes, are you including these good sugars in your total count for carbs?

If you never had glutathione tested, it might not be a great idea to focus on it alone to solve a problem. Reading Ray Peat's articles that mention glutathione would be helpful. The oxidative stress part of the equation would be better to zero in on. If you can lower that, other things will right themselves.

Naltrexone is used for alcohol/drug abuse; alcohol consumption really does a number on thiamine; it is the #1 thing doctors assume causes thiamine problems which to me is really short sighted because there are lots of things that interfere with thiamine function. I posted a response above to @Nebula where I list some of these things.

Here's a link to a discussion about Wernicke's Encephalopathy . There's also Wernicke/Korsakoff syndrome. It really irritates me that the medical industry blames these things on alcohol abuse, which granted, can cause them, but the issue is thiamine deficiency/functional blockage which can be caused by lots of things, not the least of which are pharmaceutical drugs and mercury amalgam dental fillings and old house renovation dust.

This really does sound like thiamine deficiency. I went through the same gut reaction after taking the Bactrim antibiotic. My gut was a mess, my oxidative metabolism went in the ditch, I packed on 25 pounds in about 6 weeks, I was overwhelmed with inflammation (lactic acidosis), I couldn't walk straight, I was sick like this for months. I finally was able to turn things around by taking thiamine hcl and magnesium glycinate and a good b-complex, 90mg niacinamide + 90mg riboflavin 4Xday. I had been taking 100mg thiamine hcl for about 6 years before this time; it was no longer enough to fix me. I slowly increased the dosage from 250mg 2Xday up to 2 grams thiamine hcl 2Xday over a period of 3 months. I did the increase this slowly because I didn't have a doctor. Dr. Costantini just put his patients on the 2 grams, but he was watching them closely. His site is filled with practical information, I found it very helpful.

If you do a search for "ptsd and thiamine deficiency" there are a lot of interesting results. Are you in the US? Are you getting help from the VA? Lots of diagnoses of "PTSD and thiamine deficiency". Since they inject a lot of things into servicemen before shipping them off to combat, it makes sense that there could be thiamine functional blockage caused by the adjuvants in the injections.

You're welcome. Please understand that I'm not a physician, I've just been sick a lot and have managed to find the key for my personal recovery. I think that thiamine deficiency/functional blockage is a huge deal and that it is much more common than doctors imagine.

Hang in there and keep researching. You may be able to find a doctor that can help you but it is extremely important that you arm yourself with knowledge so that you can protect yourself from medical arrogance and ignorance. Understand that patented pharmaceutical drugs are by definition toxic because they are not found in nature.

You may be able to have better luck finding a doctor if you focus on "functional medicine" doctors. This organization might be helpful: Welcome To Orthomolecular.org However, this group are big believers in chelation therapy, which can be great if the doctor knows what they are doing. It can be really dangerous if precautions aren't carefully followed. The last time I got chelated, I was thiamine deficient (unknown at the time -nobody bothered to check), was chelated for lead poisoning, and wound up with rheumatoid arthritis; lucky they didn't kill me.

I’ve always suspected some deficiency causing the ptsd and tbi symptoms. A brain scan never showed anything. I was bit by a brown recluse prior to deploying and I found an article on pubmed that brown recluse bites are often misdiagnosed and masquerading from tick/Lyme bites. Peat doesn’t seem to think Lyme is as bad as some doctors and patients believe.

I did have a couple amalgam fillings that got removed a few years ago. Also with losing 50lbs I speculate the release of stored toxins could be cause also. Estradiol has been over range too so I’m going to incorporate some E with the B’s.

As for the VA, psychiatrist wants to push lexapro for the anxiety/ptsd and she was pushing me to get the Covid jab three times in our session. I’m going to stick to just counseling and nutrition. Benzos they put me on really messed me up 12 years ago.

The antibiotics are interesting because azithromycin really messed me up but when I was on amoxicillin 6 years ago for strep, I literally had no anxiety and felt normal and it lasted for a couple months. Probably some endotoxin stuff too. It’s all making sense. B1 affects everything. Lost my gallbladder, raised estrogen, then all the symptoms.
 

InChristAlone

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That sounds relieving to hear. I’ve listened to the reactions and how we typically have to push through them. I just don’t want to get palpitations. I don’t recall ever having poor reactions to b vitamins but just want to try and mitigate any potential issue. What B’s are you using? Did you start under 100 for thiamine? I have topical mag too and epsom
I am using Haidut's Energin at just a few drops a day, then the thiamine hcl at around 30-40 mg to start.
 
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theonlyway

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I am using Haidut's Energin at just a few drops a day, then the thiamine hcl at around 30-40 mg to start.
I’ve used forefront healths b drops in the past but taste is yuck and the amount for skin covers my whole forearms lol. So you take b1 solo on top of the energin? I hope the b vitamins will help with my lingering sinus crap too
 

InChristAlone

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I’ve used forefront healths b drops in the past but taste is yuck and the amount for skin covers my whole forearms lol. So you take b1 solo on top of the energin? I hope the b vitamins will help with my lingering sinus crap too
Yeah I take the drops orally and they do taste horrible but I think i'm getting used to it lol. Yes have to take thiamine hcl on top of it because I don't want to overdose on some of those other b's.
 

InChristAlone

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I found another resource for thiamine deficiency:

She goes over the biochemistry really well, straight to he point and easy to understand. Sometimes I just couldn't follow Elliot's videos, his accent is so drawn out I get annoyed and stop listening.
 

mostlylurking

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I’ve always suspected some deficiency causing the ptsd and tbi symptoms. A brain scan never showed anything. I was bit by a brown recluse prior to deploying and I found an article on pubmed that brown recluse bites are often misdiagnosed and masquerading from tick/Lyme bites. Peat doesn’t seem to think Lyme is as bad as some doctors and patients believe.
Ray Peat has said that Lyme can be cured with the right antibiotic. He has also talked about hypothyroidism being the main issue causing the long term illness but doctors don't address it; they blame the symptoms on Lyme instead and milk the patient for years. Have you read about hypothyroidism? I'm hypothyroid in addition to having the issue with thiamine. I've had to address both issues in order to recover my health. Thyroid, insomnia, and the insanities: Commonalities in disease


I did have a couple amalgam fillings that got removed a few years ago. Also with losing 50lbs I speculate the release of stored toxins could be cause also. Estradiol has been over range too so I’m going to incorporate some E with the B’s.
Did they use a dental dam when they removed the amalgams? If no, the removal causes additional exposure to the mercury. It happened to me. Mercury is terrible stuff.

I think you're right about the release of stored toxins from weight loss. The body parks toxins in the fat for safe storage. Do you avoid PUFA? Elevated estradiol points to elevated inflammation. Addressing the inflammation is key. Thiamine deficiency causes elevated inflammation from lactic acid and reduced carbon dioxide.
As for the VA, psychiatrist wants to push lexapro for the anxiety/ptsd and she was pushing me to get the Covid jab three times in our session. I’m going to stick to just counseling and nutrition. Benzos they put me on really messed me up 12 years ago.
My husband is a disabled Vietnam Vet. His main issue is he broke his back while in the military but he also is dealing with hypothyroidism which the VA has now labeled as being the result of agent orange exposure. We've been around the block with the VA for years. Things improved when my husband discovered the local Veterans Service Officer who went to bat for him. We learned that if you can find evidence on line that what you suspect is going on with your body can be attributed to your time/injury while in the military, the VA will accept that evidence, include it in your medical records and can become willing to help you in the manner that you believe to be the most beneficial. Do your own research. Decide for yourself, don't let them pressure you into doing something you don't understand. Stand your ground. If they push medication on you, research thoroughly before swallowing/applying anything.

Show the psychiatrist the correlation of thiamine deficiency/functional blockage with ptsd and request the right testing for thiamine issues. Good for you to decline the Lexapro (SSRI inhibitor). Serotonin is bad stuff. Please note that thiamine deficiency increases brain serotonin. Thiamine deficiency and also hypothyroidism each reduce brain energy and cause depression. You could be carrying a toxic load of heavy metals from mercury amalgams plus various vaccinations (adjuvants). You could resolve a lot of these issues simply by supplementing thiamine.

The antibiotics are interesting because azithromycin really messed me up but when I was on amoxicillin 6 years ago for strep, I literally had no anxiety and felt normal and it lasted for a couple months. Probably some endotoxin stuff too. It’s all making sense. B1 affects everything. Lost my gallbladder, raised estrogen, then all the symptoms.
The medical industrial complex now has something like over 250 antibiotics from which to choose. Things have gotten way out of hand.

I'm going to paste a collection I put together about thiamine and heavy metal toxicity for your reference. The main point I want to make is that thiamine deficiency will cause the blood/brain barrier to become leaky which allows things like iron to get in and cause problems. It's really important for your blood/brain barrier to work well. Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement and has been used for many years. In fact, it is so tried and true that it is boring which is a big reason why more recent research is focused on TTFD.

My collection:
Thiamine (2–4 mg/kg per day, SC) alleviates clinical manifestations and reduces tissue deposition of lead. Combined Ca-EDTA and thiamine treatment appears to produce the most beneficial response. Lead Poisoning in Animals - Toxicology - Merck Veterinary Manual



Lead induced thiamine deficiency in the brain decreased the threshold of electroshock seizure in rat

Thiamine supplementation reversed these signs and decreased the brain lead concentration in the lead treated group. The results from the present study suggest that the increased seizure susceptibility induced by lead intoxication in rats may be mediated at least in part through the changes of thiamine status.

Thiamine and zinc in prevention or therapy of lead intoxication: Thiamine and zinc in prevention or therapy of lead intoxication - PubMed

Thiamine, zinc or their combination given through gastric gavage were investigated for their ability to prevent or treat experimental lead toxicity in rats. Simultaneous dietary supplementation with thiamine plus zinc was found to be the most effective way of reducing the lead-induced inhibition of delta-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase activity in blood, urinary, excretion of delta-aminolevulinic acid and accumulation of lead in blood, liver and kidney. Prevention was more effective than post-lead exposure treatment which may be due mainly to the decrease in the absorption of lead in the gastro-intestinal tract in the presence of thiamine and/or zinc.

Eating to Block Lead Absorption | NutritionFacts.org

Intake of certain nutrients has been associated with lower lead levels in the body. For example, women with higher intake of thiamine, also called vitamin B1, tended to have lower blood lead levels, and the same was found for lead-exposed steel workers—and not just with thiamine, as “content of dietary fiber, iron, or thiamine intake each correlated inversely with blood lead concentrations in workers…” The thinking is that the fiber might glom onto the lead and flush it out of the body, the iron would inhibit the lead absorption, and the thiamine may accelerate lead removal through the bile. So, researchers suggest that eating lots of iron, fiber and especially thiamine-rich foods “may induce rapid removal and excretion of the lead from the tissues.” But thiamine’s never been put to the test by giving it to people to see if their lead levels drop. The closest I could find is a thiamine intervention for lead-intoxicated goats.

Thiamin (vitamin B1) effects on lead intoxication and deposition of lead in tissues: Therapeutic potential

Thiamin (vitamin B1) effects on lead intoxication and deposition of lead in tissues: Therapeutic potential:

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effects of thiamin on lead (Pb) poisoning in cattle. Fifteen Holstein male calves were divided into three groups: Group I served as controls, Group II calves were dosed orally with 5 mg Pb acetate/day/kg of body wt, and Group III calves were dosed similarly with Pb and with 100 mg/day/calf of thiamin hydrochloride, subcutaneously. Calves were treated daily for 20 days. None of the control or Pb plus thiamin-treated calves showed clinical signs of poisoning and no deaths occurred. However, four of five Pb-treated calves showed signs of Pb poisoning and two died during the study. Tissues from both groups receiving Pb contained significantly higher (p < 0.01) concentrations of Pb than tissues from control calves. However, tissues from calves receiving Pb plus thiamin contained 2 to 10 times less Pb than tissues from calves receiving only Pb. The Pb concentrations in liver, kidney, and blood from thiamin-treated calves remained below confirmatory levels associated with Pb poisoning; while Pb concentrations in the same tissues from calves dosed only with Pb were within the range considered diagnostic of Pb poisoning. On the other hand, δ-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase activity in erythrocytes was decreased 70% from pretreatment levels in both groups receiving Pb. Thus, thiamin appeared to have no protective effect on the ability of Pb to inhibit this enzyme. But in the tissues analyzed, thiamin interacted with Pb in some way to prevent tissue accumulation, thus preventing clinical signs and death. These results suggest that therapeutic doses of thiamin may be of value in the prevention and treatment of Pb poisoning in cattle, and in other animals or humans exposed to high environmental levels of Pb.

Thiamine reduces tissue lead levels in rats: mechanism of interaction - BioMetals

Lead (Pb) toxicity has been a serious concern in industrialized societies because of its association with functional deficits in nervous, haematopoietic and renal systems. Several studies have shown beneficial effects of thiamine on Pb toxicity. It is speculated that Pb chelation by thiamine may be a possible mechanism. However, the exact nature of these interactions remained elusive. In the present study we have characterized the interaction of Pb with thiamine using UV–Vis as well as fluorescence spectroscopic methods and studied the effect of thiamine treatment on blood and tissue Pb levels during simultaneous or post-exposure to Pb in rat model. The spectroscopic studies revealed that Pb interacts with the pyrimidine ring of thiamine, leading to its solubilization at physiological pH. Further, thiamine reduced the Pb levels in blood, kidney and bone during both simultaneous and post-exposure Pb treatment. Interestingly, thiamine appears to prevent the accumulation of Pb in bone during simultaneous treatment. Together these results suggest that pyrimidine ring of thiamine mediates its interaction with Pb, leading to the prevention of its accumulation and/or increased clearance from tissues.


Chelation in metal intoxication XVIII: Combined effects of thiamine and calcium disodium versenate on dead toxicity

Chelation in metal intoxication XVIII: Combined effects of thiamine and calcium disodium versenate on dead toxicity

Calcium disodium ethylenediaminetetracetate (CaNa2EDTA; Versenate) was more effective than thiamine (vitamin B1) in enhancing the urinary excretion of lead, reducing tissue lead and restoring lead induced biochemical alterations in rats. However, the combination of CaNa2EDTA and vitamin B1 enhanced the beneficial effect of CaNa2EDTA in lead intoxication and was particularly effective in reducing the brain concentration of lead.


more: thiamine and heavy metals, including iron overload:

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quote: We hypothesize that excess iron, that is, brain iron overload (BIO), is a highly relevant pathway leading to cognitive deterioration in individuals with AUD. We further hypothesize thiamine depletion, a common concomitant feature in AUD patients, to be a key stimulus for BIO, as thiamine deficiency disrupts the integrity of the blood-brain barrier (BBB), enabling iron from the circulation to enter the brain in an uncontrolled manner.



Vitamin B1 Deficiency a Key Factor in the Development of Alcohol-Related Dementia - Neuroscience News

quote: A common consequence of chronically high alcohol consumption is a decline in cognitive function, which can even progress to full-blown dementia. However, we do not yet fully understand how alcohol damages the brain. A research group led by Stephan Listabarth from MedUni Vienna’s Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Division of Social Psychiatry, has now developed a hypothesis whereby iron deposits in the brain – resulting from alcohol-induced vitamin B1 deficiency – can be regarded as key factors in cognitive decline. The work has now been published in the leading journal “Alzheimer’s and Dementia”.



Chelation Therapy in Medicine - Hormones Matter

quote: Because of a sick cow, a farmer had called a veterinarian who had recognized the symptoms of thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency. When given an injection of the vitamin the symptoms in the cow had disappeared but they had subsequently returned and the veterinarian was asked to come again. Thinking this was a strange recurrence, the doctor had the presence of mind to search the field where the cow had been grazing. He had found an old trunk in a corner of the field that was partly covered with lead paint and which the cow had been licking. Lead has a sweet taste and the veterinarian concluded that this was the cause of the thiamine deficiency. In a study using rats, calcium disodium EDTA was more effective than thiamine in enhancing the urinary excretion of lead in restoring lead induced biochemical alterations. However, the combination of the drug and thiamine enhanced the beneficial effect and was particularly effective in reducing the brain concentration of lead.

In lead loaded sheep the combination of EDTA and thiamine administration was better than EDTA or thiamine given singly. It was concluded however that thiamine, even by itself, does increase lead excretion via bile and urine, a beneficial effect that has not been followed up since. The influence of dietary protein deficiency on the effects of exposure to lead or its combination with copper was investigated in rats.
 
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theonlyway

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Ray Peat has said that Lyme can be cured with the right antibiotic
They didn’t put me on antibiotics until 10 years after the bite. They assumed it was brown recluse and used medicated gauze. I’ve read a lot of hypothyroidism. Read Broda Barnes book and believe I may be hypo. I’ve experiment with WP thyroid in the past. My temp and pulse is usually good. My pulse actually will more often be elevated than ever be low. My antibodies were elevated a couple years ago. That’s when they found my testosterone was off the chart low and e was high. Probably could of been solved with B1 by the sounds of it.

Did they use a dental dam when they removed the amalgams? If no, the removal causes additional exposure to the mercury. It happened to me. Mercury is terrible stuff.

I think you're right about the release of stored toxins from weight loss. The body parks toxins in the fat for safe storage. Do you avoid PUFA? Elevated estradiol points to elevated inflammation. Addressing the inflammation is key.
They did use dental dam.

I avoid pufa as much as possible and have been following Rays stuff for 12 years. My inflammation has been high too. A wealthy guy wants to buy me an infrared sauna to help inflammation. I was blown up a bunch and was engaged in combat a lot in 2004. Most people engaged in traumatic and extreme events should probably be doctored with nutrition for awhile after.

So tell me if this makes sense. Starting with forefront health b complex drops. Starting half the dose for a few days. Switching to full dose for a few days. Then adding in more thiamine hcl powder and to titrating that up. Do you feel that’s too conservative? I know in the past Niacinamide would cause anxiety. I want to mitigate any issues. I will take some mag every day. There is so much info.
 

mostlylurking

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They did use dental dam.
good news.
I avoid pufa as much as possible and have been following Rays stuff for 12 years. My inflammation has been high too. A wealthy guy wants to buy me an infrared sauna to help inflammation. I was blown up a bunch and was engaged in combat a lot in 2004. Most people engaged in traumatic and extreme events should probably be doctored with nutrition for awhile after.
I've found the most effective way to lower inflammation is to take enough thiamine.

I agree that nutrition and vitamin therapy would be good ideas. Getting oxidative metabolism up to normal is important for the brain to fire properly.
So tell me if this makes sense. Starting with forefront health b complex drops. Starting half the dose for a few days. Switching to full dose for a few days. Then adding in more thiamine hcl powder and to titrating that up. Do you feel that’s too conservative? I know in the past Niacinamide would cause anxiety. I want to mitigate any issues. I will take some mag every day. There is so much info.
I think that's too conservative. But I'm not you.

I've found that niacinamide can really mess me up. I don't do well on high doses; my brain cuts out. I've learned I get more benefit from taking 90mg niacinamide 4Xday than I got from taking double that amount. It's subtle but I can tell the smaller, more frequent dose of niacinamide helps me better.

I was not improving as well as I wanted when titrating up my dose of thiamine hcl (3 months time) until I finally took the full 1 gram dose 2Xday. Then magic happened within 2 days on that dose. Suddenly I experienced major autonomic nervous system improvements. My digestive tract normalized. It was a sudden major improvement in multiple ways. I could swallow food easily, my stomach had enough stomach acid for digestion and I wanted to eat meat again, evacuation was very easy and very complete. It was obvious that the 2 grams/day is what I needed to regain function that had been damaged for years. My sleep improved massively, so long as I got the second dose of thiamine hcl in me by 3:30pm. Dr. Costantini knew what he was doing and his site is extremely helpful with practical information.

If you are worried about heart palpitations I think you should start low dose, but you should increase your dose as you learn about your reaction to thiamine and stair step up over a little time. I remember I started taking 300mg thiamine hcl 2Xday in October of 2020 (it knocked out the inflammation and normalized my low temperature) and increased the dosage each time I was aware I needed more which I think was every 3-5 days. I took my first dose of 1 gram 2Xday on 2/1/2021. It still works well for me. The main negative feeling I remember about it is that thiamine will lower your blood sugar (it optimizes oxidative metabolism) so I found my energy would drop and I got hungry and needed to eat to keep my blood sugar up. I also found that coffee makes me feel pretty horrible so I don't drink it.

Perhaps you would find it helpful to watch his patients' videos: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu
 
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theonlyway

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I found another resource for thiamine deficiency:

She goes over the biochemistry really well, straight to he point and easy to understand. Sometimes I just couldn't follow Elliot's videos, his accent is so drawn out I get annoyed and stop listening.

That was really good. It’s amazing how effective it is. I mean she was giving small children 150+mg so maybe I’m fearing and worrying over nothing
 

mostlylurking

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They didn’t put me on antibiotics until 10 years after the bite. They assumed it was brown recluse and used medicated gauze. I’ve read a lot of hypothyroidism. Read Broda Barnes book and believe I may be hypo. I’ve experiment with WP thyroid in the past. My temp and pulse is usually good. My pulse actually will more often be elevated than ever be low. My antibodies were elevated a couple years ago. That’s when they found my testosterone was off the chart low and e was high. Probably could of been solved with B1 by the sounds of it.
I remember when I was so sick fall of 2020 my pulse was all over the place, while my temperature was low, around 97.8 tops. I was taking prescription natural desiccated thyroid at the time and had had normal temps for years. The Bactrim blocked my thiamine and my temperature went down.
That was really good. It’s amazing how effective it is. I mean she was giving small children 150+mg so maybe I’m fearing and worrying over nothing
You might find Dr. Derrick Lonsdale's articles helpful. He was a pediatrician at the Cleveland Clinic and saved really sick kids using thiamine when everybody else had given up on them. Here's a link: You searched for Dr derrick lonsdale - Hormones Matter this one is good: How Can Something As Simple As Thiamine Cause So Many Problems?- Hormones Matter
 
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theonlyway

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good news.

I've found the most effective way to lower inflammation is to take enough thiamine.

I agree that nutrition and vitamin therapy would be good ideas. Getting oxidative metabolism up to normal is important for the brain to fire properly.

I think that's too conservative. But I'm not you.

I've found that niacinamide can really mess me up. I don't do well on high doses; my brain cuts out. I've learned I get more benefit from taking 90mg niacinamide 4Xday than I got from taking double that amount. It's subtle but I can tell the smaller, more frequent dose of niacinamide helps me better.

I was not improving as well as I wanted when titrating up my dose of thiamine hcl (3 months time) until I finally took the full 1 gram dose 2Xday. Then magic happened within 2 days on that dose. Suddenly I experienced major autonomic nervous system improvements. My digestive tract normalized. It was a sudden major improvement in multiple ways. I could swallow food easily, my stomach had enough stomach acid for digestion and I wanted to eat meat again, evacuation was very easy and very complete. It was obvious that the 2 grams/day is what I needed to regain function that had been damaged for years. My sleep improved massively, so long as I got the second dose of thiamine hcl in me by 3:30pm. Dr. Costantini knew what he was doing and his site is extremely helpful with practical information.

If you are worried about heart palpitations I think you should start low dose, but you should increase your dose as you learn about your reaction to thiamine and stair step up over a little time. I remember I started taking 300mg thiamine hcl 2Xday in October of 2020 (it knocked out the inflammation and normalized my low temperature) and increased the dosage each time I was aware I needed more which I think was every 3-5 days. I took my first dose of 1 gram 2Xday on 2/1/2021. It still works well for me. The main negative feeling I remember about it is that thiamine will lower your blood sugar (it optimizes oxidative metabolism) so I found my energy would drop and I got hungry and needed to eat to keep my blood sugar up. I also found that coffee makes me feel pretty horrible so I don't drink it.

Perhaps you would find it helpful to watch his patients' videos: Videos Parkinson's Patients before and after treatment - Ultima Edizione.Eu
I appreciate your responses highly. I do have anxiety disorder which makes me worry about stupid ***t. I think I’ll order some from the life giving store. One scoop is 80mg. I’ll try half a scoop and as long as I don’t get symptoms I’ll up to a whole scoop within two days and work up to 250mg. I need to find a decent complex without b12. The cancer thing weirds me out with b12. After a month I’ll try adding in benfo or ttfd. I bought Elliot’s protocol that has two protocols for sensitive people. He recommends starting at 10-50mg of hcl working up to 200-250mg and adding in the other type benfo or ttfd 100-300.

I’m anxious to get started and see how it goes. So no thiamine with oj? Just put it in water? Any b complex recommendations? Thank you
 

mostlylurking

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I appreciate your responses highly. I do have anxiety disorder which makes me worry about stupid ***t. I think I’ll order some from the life giving store. One scoop is 80mg. I’ll try half a scoop and as long as I don’t get symptoms I’ll up to a whole scoop within two days and work up to 250mg. I need to find a decent complex without b12. The cancer thing weirds me out with b12. After a month I’ll try adding in benfo or ttfd. I bought Elliot’s protocol that has two protocols for sensitive people. He recommends starting at 10-50mg of hcl working up to 200-250mg and adding in the other type benfo or ttfd 100-300.

I’m anxious to get started and see how it goes. So no thiamine with oj? Just put it in water? Any b complex recommendations? Thank you
Hi there, I'm glad you've settled on a plan of action. I'm personally familiar with anxiety disorder; I lived with it for many years. I don't have it anymore though. The thiamine evidently lowered my brain serotonin so I'm fine now. I used to worry about everything; if there was nothing in my life to worry about, I'd lie awake at night and worry about a TV show. After 5 years, my psychotherapist lost patience with my hand wringing and told me point blank to just stop with the catastrophizing. I had no idea that I was in such dire straights physically from the heavy metal toxicity and the resulting thiamine deficiency. I thought it was a personality flaw.

Please take the time to read through Dr. Costantini's website; there are lots of helpful tips and information there. Dr. Costantini instructs to just take the thiamine with water, never with any juice. It is an acquired taste. Sort of like burning rubber. Smack. Here's the link again: HDT Therapy Read the FAQs too, also his research papers here: Published Study Articles
 
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theonlyway

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Jun 7, 2016
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Hi there, I'm glad you've settled on a plan of action. I'm personally familiar with anxiety disorder; I lived with it for many years. I don't have it anymore though. The thiamine evidently lowered my brain serotonin so I'm fine now. I used to worry about everything; if there was nothing in my life to worry about, I'd lie awake at night and worry about a TV show. After 5 years, my psychotherapist lost patience with my hand wringing and told me point blank to just stop with the catastrophizing. I had no idea that I was in such dire straights physically from the heavy metal toxicity and the resulting thiamine deficiency. I thought it was a personality flaw.

Please take the time to read through Dr. Costantini's website; there are lots of helpful tips and information there. Dr. Costantini instructs to just take the thiamine with water, never with any juice. It is an acquired taste. Sort of like burning rubber. Smack. Here's the link again: HDT Therapy Read the FAQs too, also his research papers here: Published Study Articles
It’s so wild reading the improvements with the parkinsons patients. I can see why they would need such high doses. It’s so difficult because I read all the positive with high dose and then Ray says 10mg a day is enough to fix deficiencies.
 

InChristAlone

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It’s so wild reading the improvements with the parkinsons patients. I can see why they would need such high doses. It’s so difficult because I read all the positive with high dose and then Ray says 10mg a day is enough to fix deficiencies.
Ray has always taken a very conservative approach with b vitamins, well with most vitamins other than A and D. I guess he isn't a fan of the orthomolecular approach. But I greatly prefer it as compared to the approach many Ray Peat followers use. There is something to be said for using well above what is needed per day to fix mitochondria derangements, when there has been a sustained low level deficiency for so long sometimes damage can't be reversed! They did studies on women in a psychiatric hospital where they made them B1 deficient and some didn't recover, they probably didn't use enough to recover them.
 

mostlylurking

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It’s so wild reading the improvements with the parkinsons patients. I can see why they would need such high doses. It’s so difficult because I read all the positive with high dose and then Ray says 10mg a day is enough to fix deficiencies.
I don't think Ray is right about this. It isn't his area of expertise. That said, a big reason why I stuck with the hcl variety is because Ray said somewhere that he trusted it more than the newer versions. Ray has also said that a person shouldn't ever need more than 1500mg of it, but I didn't get full benefit until I got up to the 2 grams recommended by Dr. Costantini.
 

mostlylurking

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It’s so wild reading the improvements with the parkinsons patients. I can see why they would need such high doses. It’s so difficult because I read all the positive with high dose and then Ray says 10mg a day is enough to fix deficiencies.
Did you watch the Parkinson's patient progress videos? Pretty amazing! They are very short and in Italian but you can see the amazing and very fast improvement.
 

mostlylurking

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Messages
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It’s so wild reading the improvements with the parkinsons patients. I can see why they would need such high doses. It’s so difficult because I read all the positive with high dose and then Ray says 10mg a day is enough to fix deficiencies.
I'd like to add that Dr. Costantini encourages patients to go off of their thiamine for several weeks/couple of months to evaluate how they do without it. He noted on his site that their Parkinson's symptoms return but they go away again when the thiamine is resumed.
 

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